ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #20

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

I can think of two cases from Idaho where the poly was proven wrong. Lorne Red Elk's killer passed while reportedly using medication, and Richard Leavitt like 30 years after he was convicted of Murder. He tried to use the poly evidence to appeal his death sentence. They executed him a few years ago.
Also interesting that in the Ramsey case, FBI consulted with locals later on, and decided the family was less than truthful about Jonbenet's murder, feeling it was an inside job, and they used the circumstantial evidence to bring it before a grand jury. The grand jury felt there was enough evidence of an inside job, the judge didn't agree, so it never went to trial. In 2008, DNA evidence cleared the family of wrongdoing. They have an unidentified male sub responsible, and John Ramsey has sued news outlets for defamation of character. Her mother died while still being accused of murdering her daughter. I would hate to see that happen again if there is any doubt.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

I'm sure the majority of us here understand why polys can't be used as admissible evidence in a court of law.

You brought up the Ramsey case before and I am not going to comment on it because that is one HUGE can of worms and so so totally different from the Kunz case.

We need to concentrate on DeOrr!

 

[4senthia]

I still don't think that DeOrr made it to the campground alive. I hate to even think this way. But we are working with a timeline that was bogus from the very beginning.
Since Klein said "yes" that one or all of the Kunz' group were at the Silver Dollar on Thursday night, do we even know what time they actually arrived at the campground?
Also re-reading about the cadaver dogs and how they would hit on cremains just makes me realize that this was a perfect storm. Or else it was planned on a cosmic scale.
I hope I am wrong in all of the above and I am glad that Klein said burning was not, in his opinion and belief, related to DeOrr.
Hoping that the weather will permit a more thorough search in crucial pinpoint areas that may have now come to light.
jmo and DeOrr:candle:

 

[4senthia]

I truly wish that all of the 4 "campers" were victims and truly innocent.
That's the honest truth.
However the Sheriff of Lemhi County Idaho has named the parents as suspects.
He has said that their polygraphs are indicating that they are not entirely truthful.
It was said that when considering the story told by the parents, it would depend on which story they told. Which.
That says a whole lot to me.
Everyone here wishes this wasn't the case.
:moo:

 

[Rayemonde]

We have a whole Jonbenet Ramsey forum here on websleuths, if anyone is interested in debating the ins and outs of that case. It's still active even though the murder was so long ago. I agree, that's a whole can of worms we should keep out of DeOrr's thread.
:worms:

Jonbenet Ramsey forum:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?23-JonBenet-Ramsey

 

[Rayemonde]

This might be really way out there - but what if a hot car death was the result of a punishment or some other situation they couldn't explain away as an accident. I'm not sure if something like that could be detected, but I can imagine parents saying fine, if you don't want to be good with grandpa you can stay in the truck.

When parents are charged in hot car deaths how is LE able to determine it was intentional?

I can only think of one that is thought to definitely be intentional (Ross Harris - still awaiting trial), and it was partly because LE found google searches about hot car deaths, about "childfree" living, because the guy's shock and grief seemed fake to both LE and passers by who tried to revive the baby, because he and his wife said a few strange things afterwards (eg when she went to see him after he'd been arrested, his wife said "did you say too much?"), because he'd switched to a less conspicuous car seat just before the death (presumably so it would be more believable that he hadn't spotted the baby), the wife phoned the daycare and when they told her the kid hadn't been dropped off that morning she said something like "Oh, Ross must have accidentally left him in the car", he drove for a while with the body in the car and pretended he hadn't noticed it, even though LE said the smell was overpowering...

 

[Sillybilly]

:modstop:

Bickering posts have been removed. Keep the discussion civil and respectful or you may find yourself on the outside looking in.

 

[Little Ol Me]

snipped

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/polygraph/ota/varieties.html[/url]

Thank you. Appreciate the link. I found it very informative.

 

[Midge Montana]

"“They’re not able to tell the same story twice because they’ve told so many stories,” County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told KTVB-TV. “We’re getting changes in the stories all the time.”

 

[renarde]

I'm going to venture a guess that DeOrr was not seen at the Silver Dollar that Thursday, and that IR and GGP were the ones there.

I really think RC would've mentioned the parents being there. By then (a month after DeOrr vanished), the parents' faces had been all over the news. GGP and IR's identities... not so much.

JMO.

 

[Yvettea]

Has RC mentioned seeing any of the four adults on Thurs. night?

 

[renarde]

Has RC mentioned seeing any of the four adults on Thurs. night?

No, she hasn't.

 

[Yvettea]

"They tried to get food."

I believe those were SB's words that started the speculation into the activities of Thursday night.

ETA: someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Deleted member 718]

From Tricia's radio show with Sheriff Bowerman and Bessie:

18:30
"TG: And when the parents went camping and, let’s see, the great grandfather and the friend. Did they have the appropriate camping gear to stay for those several days, do you think? Does that all pan out?

18:41
SB: You know one was in a camp trailer, one was in a tent, and the family was in the back of a motor vehicle, so…You know I’ve seen people camp like that, so that didn’t distress me. Food – they had food. They tried to buy other food, and then they went to the store the next morning, so yeah, I think …I don’t see any problem with that."

It doesn't say where they "tried" to buy food.

 

[renarde]

"They tried to get food."

I believe those were SB's words that started the speculation into the activities of Thursday night.

ETA: someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Not sure about anyone else, but for me it was this:

DG: Did any, or all, of the adults go to the Silver Dollar Restaurant and Bar in Leadore on Thursday, July 9th?
Feb 1 at 10:06pm
Klein Investigations and Consulting:
As this is in the timeline - and outside any prosecutional questions - the answer is yes.

How did this person know to ask that question?

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1688440941411392&id=1625921954329958

 

[Yvettea]

Yes Renarde, I couldn't find that info. thanks.

That's a very good question, how did the questioner know to ask? Has this been mentioned in MSM?

 

[renarde]

Yes Renarde, I couldn't find that info. thanks.

That's a very good question, how did the questioner know to ask? Has this been mentioned in MSM?

I had never seen it anywhere. Somebody knew to ask though...

 

[Yvettea]

I'm going to venture a guess that DeOrr was not seen at the Silver Dollar that Thursday, and that IR and GGP were the ones there.

I really think RC would've mentioned the parents being there. By then (a month after DeOrr vanished), the parents' faces had been all over the news. GGP and IR's identities... not so much.

JMO.

This is an interesting concept because unfortunately it would open up more time for something to go wrong.

ETA: However Klein did say it was outside prosecutorial questions.

 

[renarde]

This is an interesting concept because unfortunately it would open up more time for something to go wrong.

ETA: However Klein did say it was outside prosecutorial questions.

Does that answer mean DeOrr wasn't there? I'm not sure what "outside prosecutorial questions" means in the context of that very specific question.

 

[4senthia]

I thought a poster on here said they asked that question.
My memory is really bad though.
imo

 

[giagreen]

I feel like whatever LE and Klein think that happen that day happen Friday morning. Why els would anyone lie about who cooked what (assuming breakfast) with Kleins timeline dropping to 8am. What in the world could happen to a child that'd be so bad you'd have to cover it up at 8am? Otherwise what's the significance to who cooked what. Maybe they forgot cause people forget in tramatic evints.

"Our timeline has constantly changed. A lot of small facts – things that should be important to them, important in their memory – have changed. From who made the decision to do what or who cooked that morning or who took a fishing pole down to the creek – just minor changes like that constantly changing"

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/sheriff-i-just-pray-little-deorr-will-be-found

"Very good question. We answered that in one of the many interviews - and I will got over it again. When we first started this case we thought we had the timeline down pretty tight - however - now we have four more witnesses that open the timeline to an extended period. That timeline is now 8 a.m. to 2:26 pm."


https://m.facebook.com/comment/repl...tifier=1688440941411392&gfid=AQBofHwnV0TZgmF4

And what I can't bring myself to get over no matter how hard I try is that four LDT where done on four different people and all four flunked. But it was expected for two of them...so it's all good.
For the other two it means they killed their child and covered it up while the other two were just innocent ploys that where to old and slow to realize this. I just find it a bit unreal and hard to beleive. Not saying it isn't what happened just seems pretty far fetched IMHO