ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #21

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Maybe Klein meant that the people who defended the parents so fiercely and donated money to them would be embarrassed. Embarrassed at being taken in.

That's what I'm thinking. Those that refuse to see the truth.

 

[OSpyder]

Maybe Klein meant that the people who defended the parents so fiercely and donated money to them would be embarrassed. Embarrassed at being taken in.

See, I ramble and ramble... And ramble... and you come along and add in the piece that I forgot! And so eloquently, I might add! Thank you! I am going back to lurking now too. Lol.

 

[persimmon]

Yes, but if that was the case, why not just lie to LE and say you were napping at the time he disappeared, instead of having sex. It would still be negligent, but not with criminal intent, especially if they claimed they were all napping as a family together, but somehow Deorr awoke and left the truck and got lost or drown. Besides, if it is true that JM started her period that morning it seems unlikely they were having sex (I don't think the campground had flush toilets or hot showers). Of course, that could be part of the alibi, as it was what gave them the excuse to leave the campsite and go to the store for feminine supplies....and she made sure to tell her mom about it in the phone call, which seems weird and irrelevant.

Just had a thought which is really soap opera-ish but could explain the 'embarassing'
part. Could JM have had an 'affair' with IR at the campsite (maybe they were all drinking and things got a little crazy)? Maybe VDK caught them in the act and got angry. Somehow in his anger little Deorr gets hurt or killed. Even though he is responsible he blames JM because it was her actions that caused the uproar in the first place. Because she feels guilty and embarassed (as does IR), they all help cover up the accident/murder.

The excuse of purchasing feminine products, although seemingly trivial has bothered me from day one. It's a teenagers excuse to get out of many things which is in line with JMs mentality imo but more than that I have never not known when I would likely need those products or exactly when and I think women would agree on this point. Any adult would pack accordingly. I think she used it as an excuse to leave the campground reasoning it would work and male LE would largely avoid asking too many questions based on the subject matter.

 

[persimmon]

I think DeOrr is somewhere between the campground and the store. Throwing in confusion about another black truck helps in case anybody did notice a black truck pulled off the road etc. I know this idea has been covered but I'm just putting it out again as it seems to fit all the known facts we have. I'm going to explore that route some as it seems the most likely place they would dispose of a body. I'm wondering if LE treated the store area as any type of crime scene? Also, when trash would have been picked up from around that area.

 

[zencompass]

Excellent points Persimmon! Thank you.

 

[neesaki]

So Klein does sense the truth already?

Good question , he did indicate along those lines when he said that they think they know "how" just not "why".

 

[giagreen]

I've just been reviewing some things and for some reason this didn't sink in with me before, that GGP drove a Suburban while pulling a trailer for 120 miles. I hadn't realized until now the distance. That would be at least two hours, maybe even closer to three hours adding in that slow, rough road to the campsite which was in itself 45 minutes.

And I know this has been said by someone here before, but again, as he and IR were friends and were at the campground together, wouldn't IR have known if GGP was using oxygen...or not... at that time ? Yet he says this in his interview with NE:

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/isaac-reinwand-i-had-nothing-to-do-with-deorrs-disappearance/


Also, I think I recall someone had posted in a previous thread about the possibility of little Deorr being left at the campsite with GGP and IR while the parents went to the Silver Dollar the night of the 9th. Thinking along those lines, two pieces of evidence that were confiscated by LE according to Vilt, reportedly belonged to GGP: the coveralls / overalls and the ax. I wonder why they were taken and why SB didn't really give an answer when asked about them.

Anyway, sorry for going back over old territory again, but I think I'm seeing things a little differently than I was before.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page4

He doesn't even say a word about the ax at all. Either it's significant or not at all. Now that's got me thinking.

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[giagreen]

I am still stuck on the 8:30 am. beginning of the window of Deorr's disappearance.

That time of the morning indicates to me the time that people would be getting up and greeting each other. That could be the time when one of the parties questioned where Deorr was.

8:00 a.m. indicates to me that possibly something happened to Deorr the evening before. Whereas 10:00 a.m. would mean (to me) that Deorr disappeared "after breakfast" or at least after the other parties saw him.

This is, of course, my own opinion. But the 8:00 a.m. does baffle me as to why that particular time was stated as the beginning of the timeline that Deorr was "missing".

I wish I knew whether Deorr was at the Silver Dollar the evening before. Would one of you kind people point me towards any mentioning that the child was there? Thanks so much in advance!

I've been thinking for a little bit now on and off if maybe they got drunk the night before and passed out or something. DeOrr wakes up early and either something happens or he wondered off. The stop by the bar could of been a beer stop. Lots of people drunk late around a camp fire.

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[persimmon]

There are some very dense forested area between the campground and the store/town. There are also very few homes or ranches along either route they could have taken. They would also cross water at a few points. There would be many spots for disposing of a body so that it would likely never be found. The more time that passes the better the odds are that whatever is left would not be recognized unless somebody was specifically looking in just that area for sketal remains. Also, the route falls outside the search parameters and amounts to finding a needle in a haystack.

I know the timeline is vague and sketchy following the trip to the store, but Klein has indicated that GGF watching DeOrr while the parents explore was misinformation. I can easily see the other two being duped in that short time frame into assuming DeOrr was present because they had seen the night before and perhaps even that morning. GGF has memory issues..so JM could indicate hes mistaken if he said anything contradictory. IR could just simply be left out of the plot as he was in their narrative during their first interview. Sure, he was there but he was doing his own thing and they simply did not try to involve him at all hoping he was not sharp enough to note anything. If you do not know anything is amiss then you don't recognize the unusual.

 

[persimmon]

He doesn't even say a word about the ax at all. Either it's significant or not at all. Now that's got me thinking.

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Just because it's GGF axe doesn't mean its only signifigant in regards to him. Perhaps it was in his Suburban where JM and VDK slept and then it was found in VDKs truck? Or, it simply shower signs of recent use but by whom is debatable.

 

[persimmon]

I'm still convinced this was an accidental drug overdose. The camping scenario would put DeOrr within close range of any drugs since the family slept together in tight quarters. Toddlers who have witnessed parents using drugs would recognize what they stored them in and likely even by DeOrr's age see the item as something of value to the parent. From there, it's easy to imagine a child seeing something that looks like sugar and injesting it. They may have conjured up the store trip because DeOrr was so agitated if he had in fact ingested drugs. In their minds, they maybe thought he would be sick a while then all would calm down. Perhaps on the drive things turned worse and he showed signed of poisoning that eventually led to his death. Naturally, the parents would be fearful of the legal reprecussions. An accident but one where their gross negligence was the cause.

I have no facts to back up the drug accident theory but there is some circumstantial evidence that I think supports it. VDKs job is well known for this type of behavior because of the physical demands. I also see a change in JM s appearance from when she was married to now. Jmo but it fits the known evidence and provides an answer for how things could change so drastically. If there have been observations of abusive behavior as SB seems to suggest, that also aligns with parental drug use. There was a case in Washington where the mother was charged with manslaughter as a result of her 2 yr old ingesting methamphetamine and bong water. There are pictures of that child and he is smiling and looks like any normal toddler. The signs are not always glaring. For me, this scenario accounts for their odd behavior, deception, and general paranoia and defensiveness in relation to public opinion.

Sorry to ramble on but it's been my theory all along. I guess now I will wait and see and hope we get more information. It may be that we never do.

OT but I found VDKs comment /response on a recent FB post ironic and delusional when he claimed fatherhood had made him grow up and become a man. I considered my father a respectable, responsible man and I know for a fact he never faked illness to get out of work. That act alone demonstrates a level of immaturity not befitting a parent. If he wanted to set a good example as he claimed, he would have known the importance of instilling a work ethic in his son. Jmo

 

[SashaFinch]

Just saving my spot. Praying for an early spring so searches can continue. It kills me to think DeOrr hasnt had a proper, respectful burial.

 

[ConcernedCitizenID]

Here is the video one of the local news stations aired the day after DeOrr went missing: http://www.localnews8.com/video/2-year-old-boy-missing-lehmi-county/34116368. The "family member" they interviewed just happens to be Jessica's ex (the father of her other two children).

 

[persimmon]

Huh? Now I'm receiving a message that my posts must be approved by a moderator before becoming visible. Ok...guess there's a post limit I am unaware of?

Ok..I can see now why that happened which is why I replied.

 

[Morag]

Parents promised hungry baby he'd get JoJos. Store was sold out, so baby was bawling at 6pm.

("They tried to buy food.")

Then a visit to the Silver Dollar for supper, and a late arrival at the campground.

VDK's comment about the bawling boy "rumor" was in response to the Sheriff having questioned him (about what the clerk at the SS had told him). Why didn't VDK just say, "DeOrr was disappointed when there were no JoJos, so we went into town for them the next day." The clerk remembered that they were talking about their child on Friday morning but she didn't remember seeing the child.

VDK didn't want anyone to know that his son was "bawling" a few hours before he disappeared.

Or, maybe the clerk did see DeOrr- at 8am on Friday- and that's why the timeline starts there.

 

[ConcernedCitizenID]

...removing as violates rules.

 

[carbuff]

The excuse of purchasing feminine products, although seemingly trivial has bothered me from day one. It's a teenagers excuse to get out of many things which is in line with JMs mentality imo but more than that I have never not known when I would likely need those products or exactly when and I think women would agree on this point. Any adult would pack accordingly. I think she used it as an excuse to leave the campground reasoning it would work and male LE would largely avoid asking too many questions based on the subject matter.

Actually, I'm going to strongly disagree. Some women are very regular. Some of us aren't. I've always been very irregular, and there have been times when a change of location or schedule has triggered unexpected flow. (Like flying to Cancun and having a flood start as I stepped off the plane...two weeks early...)

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Where is it factually stated that DK called off sick?

 

[persimmon]

Actually, I'm going to strongly disagree. Some women are very regular. Some of us aren't. I've always been very irregular, and there have been times when a change of location or schedule has triggered unexpected flow. (Like flying to Cancun and having a flood start as I stepped off the plane...two weeks early...)

It may be the case with JM that she is irregular...but I think an argument can reasonably be made that she used that topic as an excuse knowing it's a tried and true one women can rely on when necessary. I feel it was mentioned in a way that seemed overdone. Calling her mother and informing her also seems overkill, but conversely it matches her behavior that I view as immature.

 

[ConcernedCitizenID]

....removing because violates rules