ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #21

[ReadySet]

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/f/felix_ruben.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/barnett_richard.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/f/fair_curtis.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/cannon_jason.html

There may be one more but these are the ones I can remember. Not exactly like DeOrr except they are 2 years old and vanished with no resolution.

Thank you for posting these. IMO, not similar to Deorr; these all went missing from a family home. Each of the individual circumstances were different , and in some, family members suspected. To me, when there are suspects, the disappearance is not "without a trace." Your way of putting it "without resolution" is more accurate. JMO. Also, five boys missing over a period of 36 years.

 

[bluesneakers]

If I lost my kid in the wilderness and knew that help was hours away I would think I was in trouble. "Trouble" meaning I am only one person, I can't do this alone and it is impossible to search all of this land by myself I need help.

I see nothing hinkey about him saying this.

That's exactly how I took it too. I'm in trouble as in this is way more than I can handle and I need help.

 

[giagreen]

But I do think it is odd that he says "I knew I was in trouble"

If my toddler went missing in the wilderness, I would not immediately think " I was in trouble." I'd think about my baby and would be worried sick about him, and would think he was the one in trouble, not me.

It all depends on how you use the word "trouble". Trouble means bad things not necessarily that somebody is in trouble.

I think little things like this are red herrings.

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[TheTruthWillOut]

I think bottom line, we have to wait for new developments in the case. If you believe KIC (I currently do) then everything the parents said to Nate Eaton is as much a myth as what they told LE.

 

[persimmon]

I think saying this line of discusion will make DeOrr sad or it is disrespectful to him is using pathos to form an argument. This makes it an emotional attack.

We have been told by LE that JM and VDK lied repeatedly and that SB believes undoubtedly that they know what happened to DeOrr and where he is. How much more does he have to say for people to understand they are playing a game, and the answer to the mystery resides with them.

I don't feel one bit of guilt speculating about what they did to cause their son to disappear. Thats not the same as saying I hate them and I'm glad they did something so I can spend time hating on bad parents. I don't really have any feelings for them. My purpose is sleuthing using the evidence we have. If they got caught lying and LE knows they are guilty that is on them. This conversation is about DeOrr not JM and VDK and there is no way to speculate about the situation without trying to understand how this happens and I for one have never pulled an idea or theory out of thin air.

 

[giagreen]

I think saying this line of discusion will make DeOrr sad or it is disrespectful to him is using pathos to form an argument. This makes it an emotional attack.

We have been told by LE that JM and VDK lied repeatedly and that SB believes undoubtedly that they know what happened to DeOrr and where he is. How much more does he have to say for people to understand they are playing a game, and the answer to the mystery resides with them.

I don't feel one bit of guilt speculating about what they did to cause their son to disappear. Thats not the same as saying I hate them and I'm glad they did something so I can spend time hating on bad parents. I don't really have any feelings for them. My purpose is sleuthing using the evidence we have. If they got caught lying and LE knows they are guilty that is on them. This conversation is about DeOrr not JM and VDK and there is no way to speculate about the situation without trying to understand how this happens and I for one have never pulled an idea or theory out of thin air.

If all this evidence that your saying is full proof 100% there then why is nobody aressted?


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[kammiemc]

If all this evidence that your saying is full proof 100% there then why is nobody aressted?


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Both Bowerman and Klein addressed what is needed to arrest vs prosecute, avoiding double jeopardy, etc. I can find the links later, but if anyone has then handy, mind helping me out?


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[giagreen]

Both Bowerman and Klein addressed what is needed to arrest vs prosecute, avoiding double jeopardy, etc. I can find the links later, but if anyone has then handy, mind helping me out?


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I know what your talking about. I'm busy now but have a thought on that. I'll find the links later.

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[kammiemc]

I know what your talking about. I'm busy now but have a thought on that. I'll find the links later.

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Ok. Thx. I am a fever so moving at slow speed.


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[giagreen]

Ok. Thx. I am a fever so moving at slow speed.


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Yeah I have a sick two year old on my hands so when I can post is completely random. Ughhh

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[dek]

Both Bowerman and Klein addressed what is needed to arrest vs prosecute, avoiding double jeopardy, etc. I can find the links later, but if anyone has then handy, mind helping me out?


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“We don’t want an issue of double jeopardy or filing the wrong charges,” Bowerman said. “We don’t want to charge anybody with something like a homicide and find out later the boy’s death was accidental.”

http://www.idahostatejournal.com/me...cle_10391173-ac62-57ae-950e-5cddded604f7.html

 

[desert-blue]

http://www.localnews8.com/news/Parents-of-DeOrr-Kunz-named-as-suspects-in-missing-toddler-case/37626200

"Due to concerns about Double Jeopardy, and making sure that we investigate this properly, and charge the proper people with the proper crime," Bowermen said.

In addition to that, the investigation needs to hold up in court. The evidence police need to arrest someone is different from what a prosecutor needs. Police need probable cause to arrest someone, where as, a prosecutor needs to prove a case beyond reasonable doubt.

ETA: there is more info in that article but I'm not sure how much of an article can be cut and pasted and still comply with TOS.

 

[persimmon]

If all this evidence that your saying is full proof 100% there then why is nobody aressted?


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I'm neither a police officer nor do I have inside access to their investigation, but SB has stated he wants to avoid a verdict error.

 

[desert-blue]

http://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/parents-missing-idaho-toddler-named-suspects-summer-2015-disappearance-n503966

"We have not charged anyone at this time, because we want to get it right and avoid double jeopardy," said Sheriff Bowerman. "We are continuing to investigate, as we want to charge the proper people with the proper crime."

 

[ILOKAL]

Both Bowerman and Klein addressed what is needed to arrest vs prosecute, avoiding double jeopardy, etc. I can find the links later, but if anyone has then handy, mind helping me out?


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When does jeopardy attach anyway?

 

[kammiemc]

When does jeopardy attach anyway?

Why don't I try to find the links and you maybe you can look up that question.


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[desert-blue]

When does jeopardy attach anyway?

"The U. S. Supreme Court has held that jeopardy attaches during a jury trial when the jury is sworn. In criminal cases tried by a judge without a jury, also called a bench trial, jeopardy attaches when the first witness is sworn."

source: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/when-double-jeopardy-protections-take-hold.html

 

[desert-blue]

It sounds like charges could be changed or amended all the way up until trial (or until a plea agreement is accepted by the court). Defendants have a right to a speedy trial as well, so the case needs to be solid before charges are pressed, IMO. Also, prosecutors don't want a hung jury or a mistrial. It's better to get it right from the get-go.

 

[kammiemc]

Yeah I have a sick two year old on my hands so when I can post is completely random. Ughhh

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My little one is also sick to boot!


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[ILOKAL]

http://www.localnews8.com/news/Parents-of-DeOrr-Kunz-named-as-suspects-in-missing-toddler-case/37626200

"Due to concerns about Double Jeopardy, and making sure that we investigate this properly, and charge the proper people with the proper crime," Bowermen said.

In addition to that, the investigation needs to hold up in court. The evidence police need to arrest someone is different from what a prosecutor needs. Police need probable cause to arrest someone, where as, a prosecutor needs to prove a case beyond reasonable doubt.

ETA: there is more info in that article but I'm not sure how much of an article can be cut and pasted and still comply with TOS.

Hmmm, I believe police need probable cause to stop someone, but is it probable cause that is needed to arrest someone?