ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #21

[ILOKAL]

In the beginning he said they were cooperative, but apparently after the searches, interviews and investigation continued he changed his mind.
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"We re-interviewed them, but they weren’t willing to tell us the truth,” Bowerman said.
The last interview with the parents was conducted this past weekend.[/FONT] http://idahostatejournal.com/member...cle_10391173-ac62-57ae-950e-5cddded604f7.html

[FONT=&] “They’re not able to tell the same story twice because they’ve told so many stories,” Bowerman told KTVB-TV. “We’re getting changes in the stories all the time.”

ET - Fix link

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No, they were still being cooperative (somewhere in an interview Bowerman said that after he named them suspects) BUT they couldn't tell him what the polygraphs indicated they knew because they DON'T know. Given those circumstances, the only way for them to fully cooperate with LE would be to falsely answer those questions in accordance with the way LE believes they CAN answer. Convoluted, for sure! Doesn't it strike ANYBODY as odd that every single polygraph that was given to four people ALL came back inconclusive?!

 

[DatelineFan]

Allegedly.

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Okay, well then, allegedly they've been cooperative. I mean, both statements came from SB, so....

 

[neesaki]

"those who seek to find him, and are seeking justice for him".

Can that not be done without defiling and hurting the parents during the seeking?How does LE solve the cases they DO solve? Do they sit around a table discussing every possible scenario under the sun, no matter how bazaar? Or do they follow the evidence? Maybe THAT'S why these outrageous theories come to be . . . . because there's just no evidence to follow. IMO

I'm really too tired too comprehend much, lol, but I was speaking to her statement that little Deorr's life and memory were being defiled.

I'm not sure that any investigation involving suspects in a case can be done without LE treating the named suspects as suspects. In this case, LE reportedly believes that the parents are withholding some sort of information that is vital to the case and they are the only named suspects thus far.

Are you suggesting it's more or less a wild goose chase? I really have no idea, we only have what Sheriff B has reported to us to go on. Maybe there is no concrete evidence. Perhaps little Deorr did just wonder off and got lost and perished in the wilderness as in so many cases we've followed and researched.

I certainly hope and trust that he / LE are legit in their statements and aren't playing some sort of cat and mouse game, that would no doubt be cruel and unethical. ON the other hand, I would rather learn that the parents are completely innocent and did nothing to harm their baby boy. fftobed:

 

[DatelineFan]

No, they were still being cooperative (somewhere in an interview Bowerman said that after he named them suspects) BUT they couldn't tell him what the polygraphs indicated they knew because they DON'T know. Given those circumstances, the only way for them to fully cooperate with LE would be to falsely answer those questions in accordance with the way LE believes they CAN answer. Convoluted, for sure! Doesn't it strike ANYBODY as odd that every single polygraph that was given to four people ALL came back inconclusive?!

How do you know this is only attributed to the polygraph tests? It sounds like their statements have been different from time to time.

 

[neesaki]

I feel like they have. I don't really understand why it's always stated as fact that they havent. I'm not sure what more would be expected from them. SB has stated a few times now they have been cooperative.

SB said they conducted their own search after being removed from the site he disappeared from. Then they did go set up fund me accounts that they were right away bashed for. Then bashed for not putting up billboards that they obviously didn't have money for. They've given interviews and that also wasn't good enough. Then they held a benifit and raised the rest of the money to pay for Klein in full.

From following along with other missing children's cases it seems as if it's up to the media on which child gets a spot light. At some point the public (people like us) need to get up and get out there and help hang up flyers rather then sit back and criticize them for not doing more.

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Yes, that's true. The only problem is if LE has evidence they aren't being truthful about what happened. We don't know whether they do or not, other than them stating they have been "less than truthful" . Very ambiguous, I know.

 

[giagreen]

No, they were still being cooperative (somewhere in an interview Bowerman said that after he named them suspects) BUT they couldn't tell him what the polygraphs indicated they knew because they DON'T know. Given those circumstances, the only way for them to fully cooperate with LE would be to falsely answer those questions in accordance with the way LE believes they CAN answer. Convoluted, for sure! Doesn't it strike ANYBODY as odd that every single polygraph that was given to four people ALL came back inconclusive?!

Yes. It strikes me as very odd. I've actually been very surprised at how over looked this is. Something isn't right!!! Four people all don't just have inclusive results unless they all know something or the test are bunk imo.

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[neesaki]

Allegedly.

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Allegedly? Well, one of my theories involves one or both of the other POI's, so is that what you're also implying? I don't know if I'm making sense, sorry.

Ok, I really am fftobed: now. Sleep well everyone.

 

[Dee10]

No, they were still being cooperative (somewhere in an interview Bowerman said that after he named them suspects) BUT they couldn't tell him what the polygraphs indicated they knew because they DON'T know. Given those circumstances, the only way for them to fully cooperate with LE would be to falsely answer those questions in accordance with the way LE believes they CAN answer. Convoluted, for sure! Doesn't it strike ANYBODY as odd that every single polygraph that was given to four people ALL came back inconclusive?!

Do you have a link that they are still cooperating after being named suspects?

This is what the Sheriff said & he noted the difference:

[FONT=&quot]http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/crime...ance/79301014/

Bowerman saysportions of polygraph tests administered to Kunz and Mitchell have come back inconclusive - including questions about knowing what happened to DeOrr, why the child disappeared and where the toddler is located.

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[FONT=&quot]Bowerman says polygraphs administered to Reinwand and Walton have been inconclusive, but those results were expected because of both men's mental states.
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[ILOKAL]

I'm really too tired too comprehend much, lol, but I was speaking to her statement that little Deorr's life and memory were being defiled.

I'm not sure that any investigation involving suspects in a case can be done without LE treating the named suspects as suspects. In this case, LE reportedly believes that the parents are withholding some sort of information that is vital to the case and they are the only named suspects thus far.

Are you suggesting it's more or less a wild goose chase? I really have no idea, we only have what Sheriff B has reported to us to go on. Maybe there is no concrete evidence. Perhaps little Deorr did just wonder off and got lost and perished in the wilderness as in so many cases we've followed and researched.

I certainly hope and trust that he / LE are legit in their statements and aren't playing some sort of cat and mouse game, that would no doubt be cruel and unethical. ON the other hand, I would rather learn that the parents are completely innocent and did nothing to harm their baby boy. fftobed:

Maybe I wasn't clear. I was commenting on bazaar theories that defile the parents, based on NO evidence (beyond inconclusive polygraphs) to support such theories, rather than simply following the evidence like LE (allegedly) does.

 

[ILOKAL]

Do you have a link that they are still cooperating after being named suspects?

This is what the Sheriff said & he noted the difference:

[FONT=&quot]http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/crime...ance/79301014/

Bowerman saysportions of polygraph tests administered to Kunz and Mitchell have come back inconclusive - including questions about knowing what happened to DeOrr, why the child disappeared and where the toddler is located.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Bowerman says polygraphs administered to Reinwand and Walton have been inconclusive, but those results were expected because of both men's mental states.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

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I'll try to find it. Probably not tonight. It was an interview he gave (there were so many) shortly after naming the parents suspects. He said they had come in that prior Saturday, the same day they interviewed Reinwand. The interviewer asked if they were still cooperating and Bowerman said yes. Maybe someone else also recalls that. Of course he also said they "wouldn't" tell him what they allegedly know. Yes, it DID sound ambiguous.

 

[ILOKAL]

Do you have a link that they are still cooperating after being named suspects?

This is what the Sheriff said & he noted the difference:

[FONT=&quot]http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/crime...ance/79301014/

Bowerman saysportions of polygraph tests administered to Kunz and Mitchell have come back inconclusive - including questions about knowing what happened to DeOrr, why the child disappeared and where the toddler is located.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Bowerman says polygraphs administered to Reinwand and Walton have been inconclusive, but those results were expected because of both men's mental states.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]

Inconclusive is inconclusive which translates to "no opinion" by the polygrapher. I DO wonder if Reinwand and Walton also answered those questions the same? I don't really care that LE was "expecting" inconclusives for Reinwand and Walton. Just for the record, I don't believe ANY of the POI's had anything to do with DeOrr's disappearance.

 

[Little Ol Me]

I know that SB. did say in the last interview with True Crime radio, after the parents were named suspects, that the parents were cooperative a few different times. If I recall correctly, he said they are always willing to talk to him or the detectives in Bonneville.

 

[bessie]

First of all, it is not only the polygraph exams that are problematic.

Secondly, I daresay an opinion rendered by the FBI behavioral team cannot be dismissed lightly. As far as I know, no one posting on this board holds the credentials required to dispute it.

Call it what you will -- lying, inconclusive, less than truthful -- bottom line, the parents have not been forthcoming with their knowledge of DeOrr's disappearance.

Do we have the facts to draw any further conclusions? No.

Sheriff Lynn Bowerman, Lemhi County: They were the top persons of interest, but I believe they are suspects. (The decision was reached) after an extensive week of interviewing, re-interviewing and an announcement from the FBI that they were being less than truthful on their polygraphs. Plus there are a lot of irregularities and discrepancies in their interviews (so) I felt it was necessary to come forward and say the parents are being less than truthful.

Eaton: Where have they been inconsistent? Can you go through a few examples?

Bowerman: Our timeline has constantly changed. A lot of small facts – things that should be important to them, important in their memory – have changed. From who made the decision to do what or who cooked that morning or who took a fishing pole down to the creek – just minor changes like that constantly changing.

Eaton: What has their reaction been since Monday? Are you communicating with them?

Bowerman: I’m not personally. Most of the communication has been from Bonneville County detectives because they’re down in the area where the family and the friends live. They have helped us extensively on the investigation. All along (the parents) have been very cooperative and met with us but when confronted with the irregularities and the being less than truthful, they haven’t changed their story.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/sheriff-i-just-pray-little-deorr-will-be-found/

02:13
SB: Well, after a pretty intense investigation and what I consider a lengthy investigation, we asked all the parties involved to take polygraphs. We were expecting a couple of them to come back inconclusive, and that would be the grandfather and the grandfather’s friend. However, the first polygraph indicated that the parents were being less than truthful, and that concerned me, but you know I take polygraphs with a certain grain of salt so… I sent out their interviews to the FBI, their Behavioral Team. They examined them and found multiple inconsistencies, and so we asked them to re-polygraph, and they said they would, and the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th polygraphs, the same conclusion was made by the experts that they are being less than truthful. They know what happened and where Deorr is currently.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot&p=12319129#post12319129

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I still have something that keeps niggling me at the back of my mind.

Why were all three 911 calls fired off in relatively quick procession? This can't be coincidence.

I'm thinking after the body was (allegedly) hid and they were certain they were ready to have LE and search parties involved they spent a decent amount of time covering their tracks. Deorr's body could be not he mountain, but he could've been disposed miles up or down the highway. It makes me think he WAS at the campsite. Otherwise, why would 3 adults call 911 at almost the same time? The only reason that makes sense to me is if they called it as soon as they figured he was missing. But they searched for 20 minutes-1 hour. One person could've called earlier than that, SHOULD have called earlier than that, while the others frantically searched. It would be odd if Deorr was never at the campground and they decided to call 911 together in that small window of time. "After we finish eating the roasted chicken, let's call 911." This is one of the reasons I believe that little Deorr was at the campsite at one point.

It just doesn't set right to me.

GGP isn't able to care reliable for little Deorr, not even for allegly 20 minutes; GGP isn't able to give polygraphs without shortcomings; GGP isn't able to care for himself but needs the help of his granddaughter JM (she has to accompany him only to go camping/fishing though GGP's friend IR is in his companionship too); NEVERTHELESS GGP has to call 911 by himself besides two parents who also call 911 at the same time .... That sounds pretty inappropriate and strange. IMO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Inconclusive is inconclusive which translates to "no opinion" by the polygrapher. I DO wonder if Reinwand and Walton also answered those questions the same? I don't really care that LE was "expecting" inconclusives for Reinwand and Walton. Just for the record, I don't believe ANY of the POI's had anything to do with DeOrr's disappearance.

bbm
But: who else?? An unknown kidnapper, who observes an empty campsite until 4 adults and a toddler emerge from somewhere unexpected (by night) and until the 4 adults the next day forget to pay attention to the toddler for "17 minutes"?

 

[Rayemonde]

bbm
But: who else?? An unknown kidnapper, who observes an empty campsite until 4 adults and a toddler emerge from somewhere unexpected (by night) and until the 4 adults the next day forget to pay attention to the toddler for "17 minutes"?

An animal. There are wolves, bears and (allegedly) mountain lions in the area.

 

[persimmon]

They have been very thorough in their search for any animal connection. SB has elaborated at various times including such details as examining scat.

Imo and I grew up around bears and mountain lions but not wolves...a bear is very unlikely. Mountain lion is possible but they did monitor them in their search efforts and saw no sign pointing to animal attack.

 

[persimmon]

We have discussed hot car. Somebody a few threads ago said the weather was low-mid 80s that day, but it appears this something likely happened earlier in the day and not at the hottest point. Nonetheless, how long would it take a child to succomb to hyperthermia in 80 degree weather? If there was no ventilation then the car could easily reach mid 90s? My guess is 2-3 hours? I really have no idea...but it could explain their lying and is not drug related (although i still cannot find SB rejecting that notion). It happens and people face charges. In fact, a judge was just charged with manslaughter for leaving his son to perish in a car.

 

[Suthrnqt]

Marking my spot....[emoji20]

 

[Sillybilly]

We have discussed hot car. Somebody a few threads ago said the weather was low-mid 80s that day, but it appears this something likely happened earlier in the day and not at the hottest point. Nonetheless, how long would it take a child to succomb to hyperthermia in 80 degree weather? If there was no ventilation then the car could easily reach mid 90s? My guess is 2-3 hours? I really have no idea...but it could explain their lying and is not drug related (although i still cannot find SB rejecting that notion). It happens and people face charges. In fact, a judge was just charged with manslaughter for leaving his son to perish in a car.

I believe info similar to this was posted earlier but can't find it right now:

from:
http://www.peta.org/issues/companion-animal-issues/cruel-practices/dog-hot-car/

On a 78-degree day, the temperature inside a parked car can soar to between 100 and 120 degrees in just minutes, and on a 90-degree day, the interior temperature can reach as high as 160 degrees in less than 10 minutes.