ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #21

[Rayemonde]

Respectfully, first they have to find some ducks!

Respectfully, LE have been talking about *when* the parents will be charged and *what* to charge them with - not *if* they will be charged. So I think they have a few ducks already.

 

[Rayemonde]

Don't laugh, but I actually looked that before the parents were named suspects, when we were discussing possible animal attacks. And I found that all the snakes in Idaho are small and couldn't eat a toddler.

Although I suppose it's possible that some creep in a jeep wanted to get rid of his pet python, and went up to the campground and set it free there... :crazy:

 

[ILOKAL]

Respectfully, LE have been talking about *when* the parents will be charged and *what* to charge them with - not *if* they will be charged. So I think they have a few ducks already.

They might have a duck or two to "support" a charge of negligence, but the rest of the ducks in that flock flew south for the winter in a V formation, and even after the winter thaw and the arrival of spring, those ducks will not be the ones LE is looking for since those are non-existent, IMO. Quack!

 

[giagreen]

Respectfully, LE have been talking about *when* the parents will be charged and *what* to charge them with - not *if* they will be charged. So I think they have a few ducks already.

Respectfully, I'm not sure how LE can be talking about "when" and not "if" they will be charged when they still don't apparently have a clue what even happen.

"Eaton: What do you think happened?

Bowerman: I have no clue. Absolutely no clue. There’s a lot of things I could speculate but I really don’t want to go there. I don’t want to have to apologize for making a statement that wasn’t true. I want to get it right."

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/sheriff-i-just-pray-little-deorr-will-be-found/

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[MBK]

Where is little Deorr?

 

[Beezneez]

I am just stumped. The parents know the who/what/where/when/why of what happened to the little boy they so publicly pled for safe return. According to the sheriff- reposted by Bessie a couple pages back- He is pretty certain the parents know exactly what happened & are just telling lies in circles around the truth to cover it up. That tells me that they were not intoxicated enough to have no memory of the disappearance. Maybe they were drinking or something, but they weren't so far off in lala land that they blacked out.
The criminal investigation began a day for two into Deorr being missing (drones being used- check media thread, they were borrowed from the Twin Falls area, I believe.)
The sheriff specifically referred to the parents as cooperative, while specifically saying IR was truthful (first interview w/NE at the picnic table- check media thread).
IR & GGP polys were expected to be inconclusive, which can be explained by a lot of things, but the most innocuous thing that comes to my mind is the use of a beta-blocker such as propranolol- which is an effective treatment for high blood pressure. It is also used by professional athletes, surgeons, professional speaker, or anyone else who needs to keep a tight lid on their panic button. I took it for test anxiety- it doesn't affect your cognition it just makes it absolutely impossible for your body to physically respond to stress, which is what a poly measures. Again- that is just my .02 on how GGP maybe not capable of taking a poly and still maybe ok to watch a kiddo for 20 minutes? I don't know.
Has it been clearly said by anyone that the idea Deorr didn't come back from the store? Has there been clear statement from IR or GGP saying that they say Deorr leave with his parents to the store? What were IR & GGP doing while JK/VDK were leaving to the store? Do we know any of this?

 

[persimmon]

We know LE recognizes the repeated lies and inconsistencies, and have every intention of making an arrest. There was physical evidence but we do not know what that was, but I have a feeling it will prove important. Also, yesrerday people were stating that the parents were cooperative after being named suspects and that is not accurate.

The biggest clue we have for where this case is going is SBs request for witnesses who have witnessed interaction between DeOrr and his parents to come forward. When your child is missing, you don't lie to the people trying to help you unless you are guilty of something or insane.

 

[Hatfield]

Don't laugh, but I actually looked that before the parents were named suspects, when we were discussing possible animal attacks. And I found that all the snakes in Idaho are small and couldn't eat a toddler.

Although I suppose it's possible that some creep in a jeep wanted to get rid of his pet python, and went up to the campground and set it free there... :crazy:

Early on we definitely considered a possibility of animal of some sort. Mainly cougars or bears were discussed as a possibility but I think the lack of some evidence like blood or dropped or torn clothing made most of us drop that as a possibility although some still think it could be possible.

JMO
With extremely large snakes like reticulated Python or Anaconda we have heard about I think the climate has to be a year round hotter climate and swampy or moist so the growing season could facilitate year round growing to get to be really really large and have the food supply near water to get really really big. Idaho is much too cold in winter to grow really big snakes IMO. So only southernmost states like Florida example could support snakes of the size that could attempt to swallow a small child. And most of the real incidents of a very large snake trying to devour something that large like a small child then the snake can typically end up dead itself because of the trouble trying to digest. Or it regurgitates out the prey at some point.
But they can kill large things that we would not realize like ducks, small dogs, geese, small alligators, possums, and things like that could fairly easily be devoured by a large snake.

But Idaho colder winter months could not support the year round growth necessary to get super big. The winter months the snake would sort of hibernate and not eat much so it would not grow like in Florida where they basically grow all year round.

This is the same reason Florida and parts of California have extremely large large mouth Bass fish. Because a very long almost year round growing season.

You don't see too many super large bass growing in colder states.

If an animal was involved in the boys death then I would limit it to either Cougar or Bear only.

 

[MBK]

I am just stumped. (snip)
Again- that is just my .02 on how GGP maybe not capable of taking a poly and still maybe ok to watch a kiddo for 20 minutes? I don't know.
Has it been clearly said by anyone that the idea Deorr didn't come back from the store? Has there been clear statement from IR or GGP saying that they say Deorr leave with his parents to the store? What were IR & GGP doing while JK/VDK were leaving to the store? Do we know any of this?

Good points. To me, it's not even clear that little Deorr was even AT the store. Sure, maybe his parent(s) talked about him, and that the fries were for him . . . but it's not clear he was even there.

 

[MBK]

The biggest clue we have for where this case is going is SBs request for witnesses who have witnessed interaction between DeOrr and his parents to come forward. When your child is missing, you don't lie to the people trying to help you unless you are guilty of something or insane.

I hope that if there are witnesses who saw or heard a questionable interaction, that they DO come forward and are not too ashamed for not having done something at the time to stop abuse. This is not to say that abuse happened, but I feel that the sheriff is not the type of person to just bandy words around.

 

[giagreen]

We know LE recognizes the repeated lies and inconsistencies, and have every intention of making an arrest. There was physical evidence but we do not know what that was, but I have a feeling it will prove important. Also, yesrerday people were stating that the parents were cooperative after being named suspects and that is not accurate.

The biggest clue we have for where this case is going is SBs request for witnesses who have witnessed interaction between DeOrr and his parents to come forward. When your child is missing, you don't lie to the people trying to help you unless you are guilty of something or insane.

There was also physical evidence in the death of Azaria Chamberlain but 32 years later we all know now that the evidence was bunk. 32 years it took to fully clear two wrongfully accused parents in the death and disappearance of their child.
The similarity in these two cases are somewhat scary. The camping trip, lynch mob mentality, people who were camping with them didn't beleive they hurt there child. The tunnel vision. Speculation, rummors, crazy wild theories, and the parents where said to be untruthful. And people couldn't wrap their minds around that a wild animal took the child and made jokes about it.

The saddest part is to this day "a dingo ate my baby" is still a laughing joke.
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[MBK]

The first inquest supported the Chamberlain's claim of the dingo having taken their baby. I am not sure there is anything to support the parents' claims of abduction in this case.

 

[persimmon]

Good points. To me, it's not even clear that little Deorr was even AT the store. Sure, maybe his parent(s) talked about him, and that the fries were for him . . . but it's not clear he was even there.

Right. Do we have anything that indicates he went to the store? This is according to their story of events? I guess when they address the "problem" with the black truck, filthy child rumor it is imied DeOrr was with them, but I don't know if we have a narrative that includes him joining them?

 

[giagreen]

I think more importantly is how where they in the store. Even if they hurt DeOrr seems JM would still be crying. Where they happy? Look like they had been crying or have dirt Mudd on them?
We will never know as long as the clerk doesn't fully remember them to the point she had to see and meet them again to remember them.

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[MBK]

I wish we knew more "about " Deorr. IF (and that's a BIG If) he was abducted, who are we looking for? What differentiates Deorr from all the cute little blond toddlers out there? For example, I saw 2 photos of him in a restaurant. In one, he was gesturing with his arms, in the other, he had his hands pressed on his cheeks and was making a face. Is little Deorr a bit of a ham? A humorous little guy? It would be good to know. How much did he speak? We don't even know that. IF he is alive to be found, he must be brought to life. In any case, refreshing people's memory of the case, renewing interest, by focusing on him, would not be a bad thing at all.

 

[Hatfield]

I am just stumped. The parents know the who/what/where/when/why of what happened to the little boy they so publicly pled for safe return. According to the sheriff- reposted by Bessie a couple pages back- He is pretty certain the parents know exactly what happened & are just telling lies in circles around the truth to cover it up. That tells me that they were not intoxicated enough to have no memory of the disappearance. Maybe they were drinking or something, but they weren't so far off in lala land that they blacked out.
The criminal investigation began a day for two into Deorr being missing (drones being used- check media thread, they were borrowed from the Twin Falls area, I believe.)
The sheriff specifically referred to the parents as cooperative, while specifically saying IR was truthful (first interview w/NE at the picnic table- check media thread).
IR & GGP polys were expected to be inconclusive, which can be explained by a lot of things, but the most innocuous thing that comes to my mind is the use of a beta-blocker such as propranolol- which is an effective treatment for high blood pressure. It is also used by professional athletes, surgeons, professional speaker, or anyone else who needs to keep a tight lid on their panic button. I took it for test anxiety- it doesn't affect your cognition it just makes it absolutely impossible for your body to physically respond to stress, which is what a poly measures. Again- that is just my .02 on how GGP maybe not capable of taking a poly and still maybe ok to watch a kiddo for 20 minutes? I don't know.
Has it been clearly said by anyone that the idea Deorr didn't come back from the store? Has there been clear statement from IR or GGP saying that they say Deorr leave with his parents to the store? What were IR & GGP doing while JK/VDK were leaving to the store? Do we know any of this?

Re BBM

JMO
Simple answer No and here is why.
There were inconsistent statements given from some of the 4 people that were there and since we cannot rely on those statements then it would have to be someone outside of those 4 people to be able to prove the boy near the campground.

There was no video that we know if uncovered and at this point I don't think we have anybody else that can solidly say they even saw the boy that weekend up there.

So IMO I dont think we can conclusively say he ever made it up there at all yet.

My hopes are residing in the other camper witnesses and what they may have seen or heard. I hope they have given LE some helpful information. But as far as we know I don't think we can conclusively say he was even there. He may have been but I would like that to be confirmed from someone outside of the 4 people.

Its really too bad that there was not some video from somewhere.

 

[giagreen]

The first inquest supported the Chamberlain's claim of the dingo having taken their baby. I am not sure there is anything to support the parents' claims of abduction in this case.

At the time everyone said there was nothing to support a dingo taking her and that the parents staged it. Just like everyone says there is nothing to support DeOrr being taken and is staged by the parents. Hence the boots.
It took six whole years and a dead hiker to find evidence that a dingo did take that baby.

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[eileenhawkeye]

I feel like they have. I don't really understand why it's always stated as fact that they havent. I'm not sure what more would be expected from them. SB has stated a few times now they have been cooperative.

SB said they conducted their own search after being removed from the site he disappeared from. Then they did go set up fund me accounts that they were right away bashed for. Then bashed for not putting up billboards that they obviously didn't have money for. They've given interviews and that also wasn't good enough. Then they held a benifit and raised the rest of the money to pay for Klein in full.

From following along with other missing children's cases it seems as if it's up to the media on which child gets a spot light. At some point the public (people like us) need to get up and get out there and help hang up flyers rather then sit back and criticize them for not doing more.

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I feel like the case of Noah Chamberlain is/was somewhat similiar to Deorr's case in that in both cases, two little boys disappeared while outside when the adult who was supervising them (who was not the mom or dad) wasn't paying attention. Both cases had that "Is he lost or did something malicious happen?" element to it. I also think both boys were from pretty similiar socioeconomic backgrounds. Yet Noah's case got a lot more media coverage than Deorr's case. Why? It couldn't be the parents because Noah's parents didn't do any media appearances. I think it was because LE was very proactive with the media---they did plenty of press conferences. In a case where a child goes missing under those circumstances, I think you have a very small window to have the spotlight. People are following the case because they desperately want the child to be found---after a week or two, it becomes more and more likely (especially since LE is not saying the child was abducted) that the child is dead. I think that is true for most cases----they get 95% of their media coverage in the first couple of weeks/month. I think the people involved in the Kunz case from the parents to LE didn't take advantage of the small window they had to get maximum media coverage. It's really unfortunate but it doesn't even seem like the Boise media has much interest in this case.

 

[neesaki]

Yes. It strikes me as very odd. I've actually been very surprised at how over looked this is. Something isn't right!!! Four people all don't just have inclusive results unless they all know something or the test are bunk imo.

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Someone among the four is guilty of doing, the others of protecting ? Just a thought that keeps recurring to me. And then there's GGP's "memory issues" and IR's issues (?) whatever that might mean. And GGP was oxygen dependent or he wasn't, then he was. Then there's the evidence that was taken for analysis by LE, and the mysterious "ancillary" issues with the other two POI, I mean why even bother to bring that up if it means nothing?

 

[MBK]

At the time everyone said there was nothing to support a dingo taking her and that the parents staged it. Just like everyone says there is nothing to support DeOrr being taken and is staged by the parents. Hence the boots.
It took six whole years and a dead hiker to find evidence that a dingo did take that baby.

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A magistrate initially ruled that a dingo took the baby. Of course, he also said that a person took the baby away from the dingo and disposed of her, which is, quite frankly, bizarre, to say the least. The, obviously, the second inquest found differently. At the present moment, methods for testing evidence are obviously far more advanced than at that time. The cases may seem vaguely alike, but they are not. I will have much more faith in the findings in Deorr's case.