ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #21

[The Apparition]

So do you believe VDK is primarily responsible? Im just curious and it sounds like you're leaning toward him? Funny, I keep leaning more toward JM and VDK being involved in the coverup etc. At this point, they are both deepy involved but I have always felt she was maybe the one who caused the crime.

In all honesty I'm not sure what actually happened. I feel VDK probably hid the body though and knows LE has figured it out so felt the need to get a lawyer. I am baffled as to what happened to little Deorr (accident or intentional) but I feel both parents helped cover it up at a minimum and possible the other parties present. I think JM definitely should be lawyer shopping also, perhaps she is saving her money for when she REALLY needs to hire a lawyer. I'm sure everyone over the age of 25 has hired a lawyer for something and knows how every little second they spend on a case is billable, maybe she is just being frugal.

 

[ConcernedCitizenID]

http://wkbn.com/2016/02/05/trumbull-county-sheriff-has-persons-of-interest-in-rainn-peterson-case/

"Altiere said test results in the case have been slow because the Ohio Attorney General’s Office is only allowing them to submit one piece of DNA evidence at a time, so as to not cross contaminate the evidence. Altiere said this is different from a homicide investigation, where all evidence is sent at the same time."

But this is referring to the Rain Peterson case. From what I read (and bolded above), it's Ohio's AG that is only allowing them to submit one piece of DNA evidence at a time. What does this have to do with what is going on with DeOrr's case? I don't recall ever reading about IDAHO'S AG utilizing this same process in DeOrr's case.

 

[ILOKAL]

FYI...Bringing forward some recent comments from the Sheriff where he talks about evidence they have collected. I posted this yesterday.

Emphasis should also be placed on what Bowerman has also said . . . . "But now that we've determined that there's POSSIBLE foul play" . . . . And . . . . "Because I think it COULD be . . . It COULD BE evidence."

 

[ILOKAL]

But that's not physical evidence. He even says he sent stuff off to the behavioral analyst. I'm not disputing that fact.
I'm talking about blood on an ax. Hair on a shovel. Blood found in homes, cars...ect I don't believe they have much.

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I don't recall ANY mention of biological evidence being found.

 

[pepelepolecat]

In all honesty I'm not sure what actually happened. I feel VDK probably hid the body though and knows LE has figured it out so felt the need to get a lawyer. I am baffled as to what happened to little Deorr (accident or intentional) but I feel both parents helped cover it up at a minimum and possible the other parties present. I think JM definitely should be lawyer shopping also, perhaps she is saving her money for when she REALLY needs to hire a lawyer. I'm sure everyone over the age of 25 has hired a lawyer for something and knows how every little second they spend on a case is billable, maybe she is just being frugal.

Whew, 42 here, and I've not yet had the pleasure of hiring an attorney. I suddenly feel like a teen again.

I keep hoping that JM's not hiring an attorney means she's willing to work with LE to bring this to a close.

 

[The Apparition]

Whew, 42 here, and I've not yet had the pleasure of hiring an attorney. I suddenly feel like a teen again.

I keep hoping that JM's not hiring an attorney means she's willing to work with LE to bring this to a close.

Great for you! Trust me you're not missing much by not hiring a lawyer.

I have some hope for the scenario you lay out, JM working with the police. You would think someone has to crack even if they were both involved in whatever happened, the one who turns states evidence is going to get a better deal.

 

[MBK]

Sometimes, elderly people just say things. They don't really filter, they just say what's on their mind. In a sense, they've earned that right, in many cases. So . . . it seems to me that GGPA isn't so much being protected, as JM and VK may be protecting THEMSELVES from him, if he somehow pops out with . . the Truth. "Oh, well, Gramp's getting dementia . . he takes a lot of meds . .. he's a little fuzzy in the mornings . . you can take what he says with a grain of salt . . . " IMHO!

 

[ILOKAL]

Respectfully, will you please explain in a different way what you mean? I'm seriously having a hard time understanding this sentence: And I would consider knowing for a fact they hide DeOrr and lying to them at that campsite a crime.

Does anybody have a link to the place were the sheriff said that he doesn't have a clue? I know I've seen it, but want to read about the context.

ETA: Here is where the sheriff made the comment: http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/sheriff-i-just-pray-little-deorr-will-be-found/

That's also the same interview in which Bowerman says he doesn't know if a crime was committed. The context of him saying "I have no clue . . . I have ABSOLUTELY no clue." is in response to the question asking if he knows what happened. It's pretty clear, IMO.

 

[persimmon]

Whew, 42 here, and I've not yet had the pleasure of hiring an attorney. I suddenly feel like a teen again.

I keep hoping that JM's not hiring an attorney means she's willing to work with LE to bring this to a close.

When charges are brought against these two, I have a feeling neither of them will be represented by a private attorney. Criminal defense attorneys cost a great deal and a trial like this would be long and far too expensive for them to undertake. I cannot see that happening.

I have had the experience and spent a LOT of money and my situation was nothing like the complexity of a murder trial. Additionally, I don't think either parent posesses the Casey Anthony quality to have attorneys offering free services.

They will get appointed attorneys and having sit through many days in court, I can attest to the fact that D.A.s are ridiculously overworked. I felt like I was witnessing a conveyor belt and I couldn't imagine how difficult it would be to try to personally attach to each case or client. People who walk are almost always backed by money one way or another.

 

[ILOKAL]

I think there's a comma missing that would make it more understandable...
And, I would consider the fact they hid Deorr and lied to them, a crime.

Sorry but I'm a grammar nut The use of mixed tense in the original sentence is hard to follow as well. So basically the point is that if they lied to LE and know anything about Deorrs disappearance it should be a crime that the parents lied about it.

And I think Gia is also pointing out that Bowerman said he doesn't know if a crime was committed, yet he's also said he believes the parents hid DeOrr and then lied about it.

 

[Midge Montana]

I don't recall ANY mention of biological evidence being found.

Someone posted a link recently about evidence that was informative. Biological evidence falls under the category of physical evidence. I'll try to find it.

ETA: http://nij.gov/topics/forensics/evid...nsporting.aspx

Physical evidence is any tangible object that can connect an offender to a crime scene. Biological evidence, which contains DNA, is a type of physical evidence.

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

How is anyone bashing him? I respect him enough to beleive what he's told us. And what he has told us is that the dogs did hit. But nothing major. That he's dwelled on the fact that DeOrr could of been stuck in the creek. He has no clue what happen but he has to trust the experts. He's also said that it's been challenging because they havent spoke with IR a whole lot. He can't rule IR out. And that the parents have been cooperative along with IR. All he's ever said to call the parents suspects is that he has to beleive the experts and that there stories have changed. I beleive him. I'm not doubting that he beleives the parents are suspects. I just simply can't rule out two other people and feel 100% good about calling two parents baby killers just based on what he's said. It leaves room for doubt.

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Understood. It just bothered me personally because he was a guest in "our house" and was kind enough to answer questions we submitted. I really think he has said all he can say at this point but that is jmo.

 

[persimmon]

Way way OT but just saw that Harper Lee, the author of To Kill a Mockingbird died. I figured websleuthers might be a fan. It's one of my favorite novels and the film was also a classic.
Sorry for the interruption.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

That's also the same interview in which Bowerman says he doesn't know if a crime was committed. The context of him saying "I have no clue . . . I have ABSOLUTELY no clue." is in response to the question asking if he knows what happened. It's pretty clear, IMO.

I just think he isn't about to answer the million dollar question honestly. He will save that for court. I believe such a "lie" by LE happens often in US cases?

He does know/believe they are being "less than truthful" (polygraphs) and that they know where he is (phone pings maybe or a witness saw one/both of them miles away that morning). And if you believe Klein they have between 4 and 9 independent witnesses and some kind of physical evidence sent to the FBI very recently (late Jan, early Feb).

So I'm willing to wait to see what they have before questioning them.

 

[courtneyb]

Emphasis should also be placed on what Bowerman has also said . . . . "But now that we've determined that there's POSSIBLE foul play" . . . . And . . . . "Because I think it COULD be . . . It COULD BE evidence."

I take that to mean that they have evidence DeOrr is dead and the evidence is in line with foul play. And that it COULD BE evidence of foul play, in conjunction with the repeated lying by the parents, supported by the "not passed" polys, plus all the other evidence that they undoubtedly have but aren't going to tell everyone everything about, but at least is evidence that DeOrr is dead, nonetheless, accidental or intentional.

I'm a little confused by your implication that it means something else. What exactly is your take on it and the case in general?


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[Dee10]

http://wkbn.com/2016/02/05/trumbull-county-sheriff-has-persons-of-interest-in-rainn-peterson-case/

Thank you for the link, so the Sheriff DID NOT say:

Of COURSE they do! Oh, which reminds me. That sheriff said he is only allowed to send one item in at a time to Quantico for testing.

 

[kammiemc]

And I think Gia is also pointing out that Bowerman said he doesn't know if a crime was committed, yet he's also said he believes the parents hid DeOrr and then lied about it.

Got it. Just catching up. I might have misinterpreted the post. In my mind, I was thinking that Bowerman meant, at the time he stated he had no clue (who knows what he knows now) that he has no clue what went down to cause DeOrr's death. It seems to me that he very much knows the parents have lied to LE and are covering up their knowledge of what happened. That is certainly a crime and he obviously knows that. So I didn't think that's what he was referring to when saying he had no clue. Just my own impression.


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[kammiemc]

I take that to mean that they have evidence DeOrr is dead and the evidence is in line with foul play. And that it COULD BE evidence of foul play, in conjunction with the repeated lying by the parents, supported by the "not passed" polys, plus all the other evidence that they undoubtedly have but aren't going to tell everyone everything about, but at least is evidence that DeOrr is dead, nonetheless, accidental or intentional.

I'm a little confused by your implication that it means something else. What exactly is your take on it and the case in general?


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I am curious about that too. Are some thinking that the sheriff announced that the parents are suspects in their son's disappearance but he actually thinks there is a good chance that they were not involved? That doesn't seem to make sense because he could have just left them at POI's instead of upping their status to the being named the suspects in the case.


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[courtneyb]

Sometimes, elderly people just say things. They don't really filter, they just say what's on their mind. In a sense, they've earned that right, in many cases. So . . . it seems to me that GGPA isn't so much being protected, as JM and VK may be protecting THEMSELVES from him, if he somehow pops out with . . the Truth. "Oh, well, Gramp's getting dementia . . he takes a lot of meds . .. he's a little fuzzy in the mornings . . you can take what he says with a grain of salt . . . " IMHO!

That's exactly what I think they are doing with GGP. Putting it out there that he isn't capable of giving a correct or valid account of what happened, so A. Don't even bother asking him, B. If you do, nothing he says can be trusted because of his mental and physical state and C. Making him make any more statements to LE is stressful on him and is too much for him to deal with.


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[kammiemc]

That's also the same interview in which Bowerman says he doesn't know if a crime was committed. The context of him saying "I have no clue . . . I have ABSOLUTELY no clue." is in response to the question asking if he knows what happened. It's pretty clear, IMO.

I don't understand the logic of taking words without the greater context to prove something that completely conflicts with everything we know and have been told. It's very difficult to even know how to respond to that, except for to suggest taking a step back and looking at the big picture of what is transpiring, what the sheriff is suggesting by making the parents suspects, how three investigative entities are all on the same page. There will always be single sentences to pick apart and twist to meet our preferred reality. But it becomes difficult to entertain that when having the perspective of the bigger context of how the case has evolved. (IMO)


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