ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #22

[giagreen]

I feel a little bad just speculating but their isn't enough hard evidence to do much else, so here goes.

I've said this before but if everyone (all 4 people) are "in" on the cover-up I say they were cooking meth in the woods. There are numerous chemicals that are super lethal/toxic in the process so it wouldn't be crazy to think a kid could get into something lethal. If everyone was in on the cookout they would all be vested in covering it up and making the lab disappear before calling LE. From everything I know labs are pretty easy to set up and then it's just like baking cookies (highly toxic, potential explosive cookies).

If this is only a VDK and JM cover-up sadly I have to go with some kind of beating gone too far kind of event. Like Ray and many others have said, why else would parents cover this up? If you made a mistake and your child died I just don't see how you could let this thing drag on like this.

The thing is..is that if this were the case I'm about 99.9% sure we would have seen some type of drug charge by now.

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[K.L.Puyallup]

I feel a little bad just speculating but their isn't enough hard evidence to do much else, so here goes.

I've said this before but if everyone (all 4 people) are "in" on the cover-up I say they were cooking meth in the woods. There are numerous chemicals that are super lethal/toxic in the process so it wouldn't be crazy to think a kid could get into something lethal. If everyone was in on the cookout they would all be vested in covering it up and making the lab disappear before calling LE. From everything I know labs are pretty easy to set up and then it's just like baking cookies (highly toxic, potential explosive cookies).

If this is only a VDK and JM cover-up sadly I have to go with some kind of beating gone too far kind of event. Like Ray and many others have said, why else would parents cover this up? If you made a mistake and your child died I just don't see how you could let this thing drag on like this.

I have no experience with drugs/meth. But I would assume that when combing through the evidence, LE would have come across some sort of meth lab paraphernalia? I don't think it's out of the question that they were smoking meth or engaging in some sort of criminal activity down by the river, but again, there's nothing I've come across that would back that up.

 

[neesaki]

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/02/heart-breaking-infant-death-in-salmon/

Not directly related- just another example that SB is quite competent & thorough in his investigatons. Also, how incredibly sad. Meth is a PROBLEM. A huge problem. Casual use is ruining lives & our women's prison in Pocatello is full of women who got a little further into meth than they meant to.

OMG, that is unbelievable. What is wrong with people anyway? :cry:

 

[carbuff]

His left knee/foot looks... off, deformed.. Something. It's so hard to tell from pictures, especially when you are looking to see something. He could just be standing on a rock. He wasn't born with a club foot, was he? We'd have heard that, right?


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Well, there's also what they call "windblown" feet, where both feet turn to the same side. Both our boys had it but they grew out of it by around 2; I seem to recall that our niece had to have one leg in a cast for a while to correct the growth. It's pretty minor and most kids grow out of it.

But I think it's just that the camera caught him as he was about to lift his foot to take a step.

 

[persimmon]

I feel a little bad just speculating but their isn't enough hard evidence to do much else, so here goes.

I've said this before but if everyone (all 4 people) are "in" on the cover-up I say they were cooking meth in the woods. There are numerous chemicals that are super lethal/toxic in the process so it wouldn't be crazy to think a kid could get into something lethal. If everyone was in on the cookout they would all be vested in covering it up and making the lab disappear before calling LE. From everything I know labs are pretty easy to set up and then it's just like baking cookies (highly toxic, potential explosive cookies).

If this is only a VDK and JM cover-up sadly I have to go with some kind of beating gone too far kind of event. Like Ray and many others have said, why else would parents cover this up? If you made a mistake and your child died I just don't see how you could let this thing drag on like this.

That thought has crossed my mind several times. The chemicals involved in that process are far more lethal than the drug and much more likely to kill a child. It's really not as crazy as it sounds. I could see GGF being unaware of the situation. People run mobile labs on bicycles so a remote campground setup would not take much expertise. It would also explain why they felt the need to coverup an accident.

 

[The Apparition]

The thing is..is that if this were the case I'm about 99.9% sure we would have seen some type of drug charge by now.

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Agree that is why I have it as "speculation". I am far from an expert but I know there are portable labs and people specifically go to remote places to do it because the fumes are bad and enclosed spaces are bad for explosions. I'm not sure what kind of trace a lab would leave but if 4 adults spent some time cleaning it up I doubt it would've been overtly obvious. Lord only knows exactly when Deorr met his fate and how many hours before LE was actually called. When I first saw the interview I said to myself, man that guy (VDK) talks like he's a tweaker.

It is much more likely that Deorr was "accidentally" killed by his parents and they covered it up and GGP and IR are basically clueless as to what happened.

 

[neesaki]

100 % DISAGREE The bruises on this baby's head are in the shape of an adult size large left hand. The most prominent bruise resembles an index finger and swelling is evident where the thumb would be on the baby's right temple. The other bruises clearly show finger marks.
This injury would have happened by slapping downward with the hand and then squeezing...or basically grabbing him by the head from above.

Always..JMO

http://www.pollyklaas.org/missing/kids/images/kunzdeorrlg-1.jpg

Is there something wrong with this photo? I'm seeing what appears to be bruising around his mouth all the way to the chin. Is it just discoloration ? I'm looking at it with reading glasses and a magnifying glass and that's what I'm seeing.

 

[sirensong]

View attachment 89593
http://www.idahostatejournal.com/me...cle_10d44717-75dc-5601-aa30-5726228128f8.html

This one? I agree that it looks off, but maybe he had an illness or innocent injury at the time, I don't know... He seems to have a bad rash (?) around his mouth but lots of well-cared for kids get bad eczema, so it doesn't necessarily mean anything either... There are a few pics where he has faint, faded bruises on his head or face, but that's pretty common with toddlers so again, it doesn't necessarily mean anything.

ETA here's one pic where I think he has a faded bruise on his forehead...

View attachment 89592
http://www.pollyklaas.org/missing/kids/images/kunzdeorrlg-1.jpg

His left knee/foot looks... off, deformed.. Something. It's so hard to tell from pictures, especially when you are looking to see something. He could just be standing on a rock. He wasn't born with a club foot, was he? We'd have heard that, right?


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I am just noticing in the first picture, baby Deorr has very red eyes! I don't know if it's just a bad picture, but I don't think so. He looks drugged in my opinion. I wonder about that redness around his mouth, it doesn't look right either.

 

[kammiemc]

I'm pretty far behind tonight but wanted to quickly comment on this.

If prior abuse was an issue (and I feel it was) they probably wouldn't post any pictures that could document the abuse.

If the abuse was chronic, likely Deorr would've had injuries healing at different rates...old wounds, new wounds, and any in between.

I personally have not seen any photos to suggest this, for the before mentioned reason. However, I'd be more wary of the pictures they didn't take than the ones they did.

I have no clue about abuse. I am more comfortable betting on neglect. But I "think" one reason it is understandable that people are speculating is because SB's request to the public to come forward with info might have insinuated it as a possibility. (I can't recall his wording but it leaned into the idea that something might have been off in the way DeOrr was treated.)


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[K.L.Puyallup]

Is there something wrong with this photo? I'm seeing what appears to be bruising around his mouth all the way to the chin. Is it just discoloration ? I'm looking at it with reading glasses and a magnifying glass and that's what I'm seeing.

I wonder what context this photo was taken in. His cheeks are much more rosy here than they appear to be in other pictures, as if he's caught a bit of sun. There's a little fleck on his nose that looks like a scab, as well. I wonder if this is a picture of DeOrr after a previous outdoor excursion? He looks like he's been toddling around in the dirt and sun. The bruising on the forehead honestly doesn't surprise me, as the mother of a well-loved 2 1/2 year old currently sporting a goose-egg on her head.
But no, I don't see any bruising lower on the face.

 

[K.L.Puyallup]

Lol. I don't think they drugged the kid.

 

[Little Ol Me]

I don't know WHERE I read this, but since we were all discussing pre-camping sightings of Deorr . . wasn't there a "story" that the day before (Wednesday), Jessica was running around doing errands with Deorr? And that actually was the day that her mother (??!!) asked her to go on the trip to help look after GGP? I had the impression that Jessica was visiting? Yo no se! Does anyone else remember this? Sorry, no link, had a migraine earlier today, feeling very tired and lazy!!!

Yes I remember reading it, however don't recall where.
I don't do facebook, so it must have been a MSM article, or in comments under a MSM article.

Also in the same story or comment, it was said the VDK was helping his boss move the day before, I believe. I believe it said that TBC had ask JM & VDK on Tuesday to accompany GGRP & IR. for camping.

 

[neesaki]

omg no no no no...not one of us are qualified to assess photo'd bruises, if you are, get Bessie to verify. I suspect the parents and everyone around them but absolutely do not see child abuse in any photo. is there wrongdoing? well your guess is good as mine. but no way am I going to suspect nor accuse based on raw web shots with dirty faces. I have three boys and g-d help me if I post their photos here. holy heck you'd call dyfs on me in a nanosecond.

Puyallup, totally agree with your posts.

Agree with the bolded, just don't think his face looks dirty, but rather angelic. ETA: I guess it could be dirt with a bluish tint.

 

[Cricket99]

100 % DISAGREE

http://www.pollyklaas.org/missing/kids/images/kunzdeorrlg-1.jpg

The bruises on this baby's head are in the shape of an adult size large left hand. The most prominent bruise resembles an index finger and swelling is evident where the thumb would be on the baby's right temple. The other bruises clearly show finger marks.
This injury would have happened by slapping downward with the hand and then squeezing...or basically grabbing him by the head from above.

Always..JMO

I don't like this picture of him, I think his eyes look sad. I can't stand the thought of anyone hurting a child so I hope that isn't the case.

 

[kammiemc]

The bruises on this baby's head are in the shape of an adult size large left hand. The most prominent bruise resembles an index finger and swelling is evident where the thumb would be on the baby's right temple. The other bruises clearly show finger marks.
This injury would have happened by slapping downward with the hand and then squeezing...or basically grabbing him by the head from above.

Always..JMO

RSBM

Absolutely this is bruising, and cannot be 'explained' away by the lighting in the photo or just normal skin discoloration ; imo.
Wonder what other photos are being 'hidden' ?
Disgusting.

From Pepelepolecats' post (RSBM):

Meanwhile, DeOrr didn't even have blue eyes, and that fact wasn't relayed to the proper people for how long again?

Sorry, I'd mentioned his blue eyes in a past post-- when was this disclosed, about his eye color ? Not sure exactly why I've thought until now, that his eyes were blue.
MOO

His eyes were recorded as blue with the NCMEC for the first 90 days he was missing. This was very troubling for some websleuthers who repeatedly called the NCMEC to try to get it corrected because they believed the parents that their child might be abducted. And yet, the wrong color kept appearing on alerts and on the message if you called in.

It turns out that only LE and the parents could correct that info with the NCMEC. Multiple people in the public pleaded directly to the family to have it corrected. It was about the time that the family did the 411 doc that it was corrected. This was appalling to many that the parents had the time and inclination to address SM nonsense and to partake in a doc but did not have the time or inclination to correct something so significant in relation to helping their abducted child be identified.

It never really sent me off the wall, even though I always suspected the parents were lying, just because I could attribute it to not being on top of things. (After all, extended family had to have been aware of this mistake, yet nothing changed.)

Obviously (at least obviously to me!) the reason SB wouldn't care about making an effort to correct the info is because he knew DeOrr was not abducted and was not out living in the world to be seen by anyone.


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[Deleted member 718]

KBOI NEWS MONDAY, JANUARY 25TH 2016

Sheriff on missing toddler DeOrr Kunz's parents: "They know where he is absolutely"

 

[neesaki]

Lol. I don't think they drugged the kid.

I think the drugging theory was to do with accidental. Or, if they gave him something to put him to sleep. I'm not saying I supported either, it's just from what I remember from the posts regarding that theory. jmo

 

[Beezneez]

Are there any verified LE or investigators that might take a look at this on websleuths? I feel like there aren't any dots left for us to connect out here. We don't have insight to the investigative process. If someone could review the case & give us some insight about where things stand- I feel like that would help us stop chasing our tails. Obviously not someone directly from the case, but just anyone with experience.

 

[neesaki]

Are there any verified LE or investigators that might take a look at this on websleuths? I feel like there aren't any dots left for us to connect out here. We don't have insight to the investigative process. If someone could review the case & give us some insight about where things stand- I feel like that would help us stop chasing our tails. Obviously not someone directly from the case, but just anyone with experience.

True, at this point it seems all we have left is to wait.

 

[kammiemc]

Drug use has long been a rumor regarding this case. Some originated on SM and then there was JMs twitchiness and DVK tweakiness. For me, it has been their overall behavior and lack of concern that has always made me question if drugs are involved. Drug addicts have very mixed up priorities and so d these two.

Somebody posted about pics that suggested at best, poor parenting but hinted at much worse such as abuse. This individual searched JMs Fb page from day one and by day four, the pics were gone and as I pointed out new pics of DeOrr were posted. I brought it up because I thought it was strange that she only posted pics of him after July 10. Regardless, I trust that this sleuther saw photos that would have been incriminating. Just putting it out there.

But, as it stands we can only speculate. If I were a juror I could not in good faith render a guilty verdict without evidence they harmed their child. But SB asked for specific witness accounts for a reason. Lots of circumstantial evidence....but cases can bevtried and won on just that.

I personally think we have to be a tad bit careful about reporting what we have heard others say they saw posted on FB.

Believe me, I can't deny that it's super frustrating when I see things here that I saw JM contradict herself multiple times on FB. I am dying to say what I saw, but it's against TOS.

And it is equally frustrating when I see people determine things from FB browsing that I know not to be true, but I can't clarify because I don't have an MSM link and am not an insider.

I guess the only remedy I see is that we all play by the rules and don't cite Facebook info. Otherwise, I really want to be able to compare notes and also personal conversations!




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