ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #22

[Deleted member 102539]

Vernal's father:

"They weren't up there very long when this all happened, and what they came down with is that it was 4 minutes that someone wasn't watching him," Kunz said.

bbm
Up?? I thought, they were "down" to the creek?
Only 4 minutes?

In any case, Kunz sr. seems to be very good informed for not being at the campingground himself .... as grandma (JM's mother) too ....

 

[pepelepolecat]

Vernal's father:


bbm
Up?? I thought, they were "down" to the creek?
Only 4 minutes?

In any case, Kunz sr. seems to be very good informed for not being at the campingground himself .... as grandma (JM's mother) too ....

I think "up there" probably refers to the mountain. As for the four minutes, they've given so many different stories for how long the baby was alone, I don't think we will ever know the truth of it. I wonder if their families are still taken in by the prevarication, or if they've resigned themselves to the fact that DeOrr is not coming home alive and so are prepared to fight tooth and nail to save their own adult kids.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Vernal's father:


bbm
Up?? I thought, they were "down" to the creek?
Only 4 minutes?

In any case, Kunz sr. seems to be very good informed for not being at the campingground himself .... as grandma (JM's mother) too ....

I think "up there" means up on the mountain.
As far as him being informed, he's only repeating what DK and JM told him.

(My own little useless opinion.)

 

[Mickshawn]

I have had concerns that if little Deorr ended up there initially, that they may have gone back at some point and moved him elsewhere.

Isn't there a way LE could have been keeping tabs on their physical movements? Aren't there like GPS bracelets or ankle bracelets?? I bet anything they would have thought that thought in the beginning...He may get moved...

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Isn't there a way LE could have been keeping tabs on their physical movements...Aren't there like GPS bracelets or ankle bracelets?? I bet anything they would have thought that thought in the beginning...He may get moved...

LE can't just slap on an ankle bracelet for "no reason." They are most commonly used for someone who is on house arrest. I bet they've been under surveillance since day number one.

 

[skinnycat]

I wonder if IR, GGP and VDK went to the creek, left little DeOrr with JM to prepare breakfast, IR had plans to go on further fishing so only GGP and VDK came back to the campsite. I think the 8 a.m. sighting of DeOrr was IR before he went fishing

I think that GGP was told the information,as in GGP you were watching little DeOrr when he went missing, it's not something that he directly saw or didn't see, nor do I think that he was ever asked to watch DeOrr. I have to wonder if when he called 911 if he didn't start off the conversation with JM told me that I had been watching little DeOrr, instead of what would be the natural response of I was watching DeOrr and turned by back for a second to go in the trailer, now we can't find him. GGP was the first 911 call, I wonder what kind of panick set in when JM found GGP talking to 911 on his cell phone

I really wish that someone would stand up and honour this adorable little boy, start telling the truth

 

[desert-blue]

bbm -- ideally. But what keeps going through my mind is all those "searches" the couple performed outside the official search perimeter. It wouldn't be hard to "haul" a tiny body onto an ATV and take it even further into the wilderness.

I wonder about that also, especially with the weird EMT bag "rumor." DK was wearing a bright orange hoodie the whole time, which seemed to make him look like he was with S & R... I wonder if anyone was keeping tabs on them during those first few days. Just thinking out loud...


ETA: And now that I've kind of seen how Bowerman operates, I think his nonchalant dismissal of the EMT bag as being involved could mean exactly the opposite. He doesn't want to reveal a fleck of evidence - he sugar coated the parents for six months before finally admitting they were suspects.... he's good.

 

[jnblsm]

Not that I want to rehash this again, but in the latest article Bowerman states that his office was basically overwhelmed with the attention from this case "that's why we ended up asking for assistance from the FBI."


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[Jamaica Me Crazy]

I wonder if IR, GGP and VDK went to the creek, left little DeOrr with JM to prepare breakfast, IR had plans to go on further fishing so only GGP and VDK came back to the campsite. I think the 8 a.m. sighting of DeOrr was IR before he went fishing

I think that GGP was told the information,as in GGP you were watching little DeOrr when he went missing, it's not something that he directly saw or didn't see, nor do I think that he was ever asked to watch DeOrr. I have to wonder if when he called 911 if he didn't start off the conversation with JM told me that I had been watching little DeOrr, instead of what would be the natural response of I was watching DeOrr and turned by back for a second to go in the trailer, now we can't find him. GGP was the first 911 call, I wonder what kind of panick set in when JM found GGP talking to 911 on his cell phone

I really wish that someone would stand up and honour this adorable little boy, start telling the truth

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page5

JLC - I just really want to know how long was his parents gone for when they went for a walk and also did they just wonder of without even asking grandfather to look after baby Deorr

Klein Investigations and Consulting - Your question is under false pretence. The senario you lay out is myth.

 

[desert-blue]

Is the death penalty an option here?

Idaho does have the death penalty for first degree murder if certain aggravating factors are present.


From Idaho Code 18-4505:

9) The following are statutory aggravating circumstances, at least one (1) of which must be found to exist beyond a reasonable doubt before a sentence of death can be imposed:
(a) The defendant was previously convicted of another murder.
(b) At the time the murder was committed the defendant also committed another murder.
(c) The defendant knowingly created a great risk of death to many persons.
(d) The murder was committed for remuneration or the promise of remuneration or the defendant employed another to commit the murder for remuneration or the promise of remuneration.
(e) The murder was especially heinous, atrocious or cruel, manifesting exceptional depravity.
(f) By the murder, or circumstances surrounding its commission, the defendant exhibited utter disregard for human life.
(g) The murder was committed in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate, arson, rape, robbery, burglary, kidnapping or mayhem and the defendant killed, intended a killing, or acted with reckless indifference to human life.
(h) The murder was committed in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate, an infamous crime against nature, lewd and lascivious conduct with a minor, sexual abuse of a child under sixteen (16) years of age, ritualized abuse of a child, sexual exploitation of a child, sexual battery of a minor child sixteen (16) or seventeen (17) years of age, or forcible sexual penetration by use of a foreign object, and the defendant killed, intended a killing, or acted with reckless indifference to human life.
(i) The defendant, by his conduct, whether such conduct was before, during or after the commission of the murder at hand, has exhibited a propensity to commit murder which will probably constitute a continuing threat to society.
(j) The murder was committed against a former or present peace officer, executive officer, officer of the court, judicial officer or prosecuting attorney because of the exercise of official duty or because of the victim's former or present official status.
(k) The murder was committed against a witness or potential witness in a criminal or civil legal proceeding because of such proceeding.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Not that I want to rehash this again, but in the latest article Bowerman states that his office was basically overwhelmed with the attention from this case "that's why we ended up asking for assistance from the FBI."


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What are you questioning?

 

[Mickshawn]

LE can't just slap on an ankle bracelet for "no reason." They are most commonly used for someone who is on house arrest. I bet they've been under surveillance since day number one.

But, what kind of surveillance? Someone(s) following them around?

 

[jnblsm]

What are you questioning?

Wondering when the FBI started helping.
We discussed before that they arrive immediately with a missing child. SB makes it sound as if he only called them when his office couldn't handle the situation.
Just confused.

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[desert-blue]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page5

JLC - I just really want to know how long was his parents gone for when they went for a walk and also did they just wonder of without even asking grandfather to look after baby Deorr

Klein Investigations and Consulting - Your question is under false pretence. The senario you lay out is myth.

I'm of the opinion that DeOrr was never alive and walking around at the campground. He may have been in a vehicle but I don't think he got out. MOO.

 

[giagreen]

Wondering when the FBI started helping.
We discussed before that they arrive immediately with a missing child. SB makes it sound as if he only called them when his office couldn't handle the situation.
Just confused.

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From his other statements I always assumed he had called in the FBI after he determined he was not dealing with a toddler lost in the woods and suspected the parents of lying.
Seemed like he brought in the fbi at the very same time he wanted another ldt done.

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[Deleted member 50844]

Yeah, let me see... The original article's not working any more, but luckily someone copied and pasted the quote into an earlier thread (please always copy the full 10% we are allowed into threads, because the news articles quickly disappear and important information can be lost).
The quote was From Vernal's father, DeOrr's grandfather:



http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timber-Creek-Campground-10-July-2015-1/page52

Sure, the bruises and marks on DeOrr in the pictures may be accidental, or they may not. It does seem suspicious that he has bruises that look like a hand mark, for instance. Maybe he fell into a railing or something, or maybe someone hit him. There's no way of knowing.

BTW, I happened across another case where the parents posted photos of their child with bruises on facebook. Alexis Long, murdered by her mother Jennifer Long. The Facebook photos were shown in court as evidence of past abuse after Alexis was murdered.



http://www.myajc.com/news/news/a-dangerous-life-mysterious-death-highlight-child/nbRRT/




Read more here: http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/local/crime/article48611070.html#storylink=cpy

Hmm...so if he could barely walk, per the grandpa that spent so much time with him, how in the world could he have gotten so far away from the campsite that he seems to have vanished into thin air, and out of earshot? It's not like he took off like a bat outta hell, running a great distance in a short time. And if, as gpa states, he would fall down wouldn't they have been able to hear him crying, as we can expect he didn't get far enough to be unheard? I have a 2 year old granddaughter and when she takes a tumble, you know about it. Toddlers normally cry and cry over most falls...until you "kiss it better" for them. They're not necessarily injured but at the "barely walking" stage a fall in the woods would, IMO, elicit some real noise making.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

But, what kind of surveillance? Someone(s) following them around?

Probably

 

[Trident]

Wondering when the FBI started helping.
We discussed before that they arrive immediately with a missing child. SB makes it sound as if he only called them when his office couldn't handle the situation.
Just confused.

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And this kind of thing is why I'm taking everything I hear with a boatload of salt. Seems to me you can't believe anything you hear from anyone, with the possible exception of the parents being "suspects".

:cow:

 

[Donjeta]

Hmm...so if he could barely walk, per the grandpa that spent so much time with him, how in the world could he have gotten so far away from the campsite that he seems to have vanished into thin air, and out of earshot? It's not like he took off like a bat outta hell, running a great distance in a short time. And if, as gpa states, he would fall down wouldn't they have been able to hear him crying, as we can expect he didn't get far enough to be unheard? I have a 2 year old granddaughter and when she takes a tumble, you know about it. Toddlers normally cry and cry over most falls...until you "kiss it better" for them. They're not necessarily injured but at the "barely walking" stage a fall in the woods would, IMO, elicit some real noise making.

I thought he was a goer and a mover.

 

[Trident]

Hmm...so if he could barely walk, per the grandpa that spent so much time with him, how in the world could he have gotten so far away from the campsite that he seems to have vanished into thin air, and out of earshot? It's not like he took off like a bat outta hell, running a great distance in a short time. And if, as gpa states, he would fall down wouldn't they have been able to hear him crying, as we can expect he didn't get far enough to be unheard? I have a 2 year old granddaughter and when she takes a tumble, you know about it. Toddlers normally cry and cry over most falls...until you "kiss it better" for them. They're not necessarily injured but at the "barely walking" stage a fall in the woods would, IMO, elicit some real noise making.

It almost sounds to me like everyone involved is covering every eventuality with a reasonable-sounding excuse.

:cow: