ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #22

[pepelepolecat]

I'm of the opinion that DeOrr was never alive and walking around at the campground. He may have been in a vehicle but I don't think he got out. MOO.

I've recently started wondering if he might not have been injured before the trip and his condition deteriorated either in the vehicle or after arriving at the campground. Hence, the other two may have seen him, but he was already dying at that point. (Gosh, it makes me sad to write that.)

I wonder about that also, especially with the weird EMT bag "rumor." DK was wearing a bright orange hoodie the whole time, which seemed to make him look like he was with S & R... I wonder if anyone was keeping tabs on them during those first few days. Just thinking out loud...


ETA: And now that I've kind of seen how Bowerman operates, I think his nonchalant dismissal of the EMT bag as being involved could mean exactly the opposite. He doesn't want to reveal a fleck of evidence - he sugar coated the parents for six months before finally admitting they were suspects.... he's good.

bbm -- Yes. I know there was a lot of speculation and concern initially that Bowerman was maybe not experienced enough to handle things, but this latest article outlines his LE history. Suffice it to say, if he didn't have my confidence before (and he definitely did), he would definitely have it now.

(hoping my multi-quote worked?)

 

[Trident]

I think "up there" probably refers to the mountain. As for the four minutes, they've given so many different stories for how long the baby was alone, I don't think we will ever know the truth of it. I wonder if their families are still taken in by the prevarication, or if they've resigned themselves to the fact that DeOrr is not coming home alive and so are prepared to fight tooth and nail to save their own adult kids.

I think "up there" probably refers to the upper campsite/reservoir area.

:cow:

 

[pepelepolecat]

I'm of the opinion that DeOrr was never alive and walking around at the campground. He may have been in a vehicle but I don't think he got out. MOO.

Hmm...so if he could barely walk, per the grandpa that spent so much time with him, how in the world could he have gotten so far away from the campsite that he seems to have vanished into thin air, and out of earshot? It's not like he took off like a bat outta hell, running a great distance in a short time. And if, as gpa states, he would fall down wouldn't they have been able to hear him crying, as we can expect he didn't get far enough to be unheard? I have a 2 year old granddaughter and when she takes a tumble, you know about it. Toddlers normally cry and cry over most falls...until you "kiss it better" for them. They're not necessarily injured but at the "barely walking" stage a fall in the woods would, IMO, elicit some real noise making.

At over two, he really should be beyond the barely walking stage, imo. And his dad insisted he was a mover and a goer. So I'm not really sure who to believe on this -- grandpa or dad. Since dad's a known liar, I guess I'd go with grandpa. But how much of that clumsiness could be attributed to too-big shoes?

That said: Not all kids make big deals about falling depending on what they're doing. If mine were outside and busy and exploring, a fall would be a temporary inconvenience at best. But I don't think he wandered off, so it really may be a moot point.

eta: Now I can't seem to stop multi-quoting. Grrr.

 

[TxJan1971]

Wondering when the FBI started helping.
We discussed before that they arrive immediately with a missing child. SB makes it sound as if he only called them when his office couldn't handle the situation.
Just confused.

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BBM

It appears the sheriff called in the FBI approximately one week after the baby "allegedly" disappeared Friday, July 10, 2015.

The sheriff also said on Friday (7/17) that the FBI is sending a team of investigators to assist the Lemhi County Sheriff's office who will be checking the sheriff's office interviews and may re-interview some people to make sure deputies didn't miss anything.
http://kboi2.com/news/local/sheriff-says-hes-convinced-deorr-kunz-was-not-abducted

 

[Donjeta]

Wondering when the FBI started helping.
We discussed before that they arrive immediately with a missing child. SB makes it sound as if he only called them when his office couldn't handle the situation.
Just confused.

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It was reported that FBI got involved in early August

http://q13fox.com/2015/08/02/fbi-investigators-join-search-for-missing-idaho-2-year-old-deorr-kunz/

FBI investigators join search for missing Idaho 2-year-old Deorr Kunz
POSTED 2:47 PM, AUGUST 2, 2015

LEADORE, Idaho (AP) — The FBI is sending a team of investigators to assist the Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office in its search for a missing 2-year-old who disappeared during a family camping trip.

KBOI reports Sheriff Lynn Bowerman said he’s convinced the toddler was not abducted, but he can’t rule out the possibility.

 

[Rayemonde]

It almost sounds to me like everyone involved is covering every eventuality with a reasonable-sounding excuse.

:cow:

Exactly. Well said.

And grandpa was trying to cover for "the kids" and make them seem less irresponsible by saying DeOrr couldn't have walked off on his own, and anyway he was on alone for 4 minutes. And even if he is found in the reservoir, some stranger must have put him there, so it's not V and J's fault at all.

 

[Donjeta]

[video=youtube;qvZbH7NSadA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvZbH7NSadA[/video]

It would be rather insane luck for the abductor if he/she managed to grab Deorr and hide if he was only alone for four minutes.

 

[desert-blue]

Exactly. Well said.

And grandpa was trying to cover for "the kids" and make them seem less irresponsible by saying DeOrr couldn't have walked off on his own, and anyway he was on alone for 4 minutes. And even if he is found in the reservoir, some stranger must have put him there, so it's not V and J's fault at all.

Seriously, the family needs to stop making excuses and get to the bottom of it. They are enabling DK and JM to perpetuate the lie. Makes me sick. MOO.

 

[Rayemonde]

I've recently started wondering if he might not have been injured before the trip and his condition deteriorated either in the vehicle or after arriving at the campground. Hence, the other two may have seen him, but he was already dying at that point. (Gosh, it makes me sad to write that.)

When people first started kicking that idea around I thought it was pretty far-fetched, but then read about a similar case where the father was carting around a "sleeping" child for a couple of days and no one suspected anything. At trial, a doctor said the child probably had a subdural hematoma, and had lapsed into a coma over a few days. Then he mysteriously disappeared/ was abducted when the father left him alone for a few minutes (father was convicted of the child's murder).

http://law.justia.com/cases/pennsylvania/superior-court/1994/433-pa-super-280-2.html

So yeah, it's possible... But for that to have happened, they would have had to have known DeOrr was seriously ill/ badly injured, and then what - instead of taking him to hospital, intentionally planned the camping trip so they would have somewhere convenient to dump/ "lose" him when he eventually died? I can't imagine even J and V being that evil Or maybe they didn't know he was actually dying, but thought a few days on the mountain would give him time to heal away from prying eyes? I don't see this happening either... Easier to hide him at home rather than camping.

 

[jnblsm]

BBM

It appears the sheriff called in the FBI approximately one week after the baby "allegedly" disappeared Friday, July 10, 2015.

The sheriff also said on Friday (7/17) that the FBI is sending a team of investigators to assist the Lemhi County Sheriff's office who will be checking the sheriff's office interviews and may re-interview some people to make sure deputies didn't miss anything.
http://kboi2.com/news/local/sheriff-says-hes-convinced-deorr-kunz-was-not-abducted

So, Friday, July 17...

It was reported that FBI got involved in early August

http://q13fox.com/2015/08/02/fbi-investigators-join-search-for-missing-idaho-2-year-old-deorr-kunz/

FBI investigators join search for missing Idaho 2-year-old Deorr Kunz
POSTED 2:47 PM, AUGUST 2, 2015

LEADORE, Idaho (AP) — The FBI is sending a team of investigators to assist the Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office in its search for a missing 2-year-old who disappeared during a family camping trip.

KBOI reports Sheriff Lynn Bowerman said he’s convinced the toddler was not abducted, but he can’t rule out the possibility.

Oh wait, Sunday, August 2nd...

I know it doesn't really matter probably, I just HATE all of the discrepancies in this case.


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[Trident]

So, Friday, July 17...

Oh wait, Sunday, August 2nd...

I know it doesn't really matter probably, I just HATE all of the discrepancies in this case.


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YES! This is exactly the point I'm trying to get across. This ENTIRE case, from parents to LE (IMO), is the shifting, whispering sand. WHY?

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

DK and JM need some shaken adult syndrome put upon them.

 

[Trident]

When people first started kicking that idea around I thought it was pretty far-fetched, but then read about a similar case where the father was carting around a "sleeping" child for a couple of days and no one suspected anything. At trial, a doctor said the child probably had a subdural hematoma, and had lapsed into a coma over a few days. Then he mysteriously disappeared/ was abducted when the father left him alone for a few minutes (father was convicted of the child's murder).

http://law.justia.com/cases/pennsylvania/superior-court/1994/433-pa-super-280-2.html

So yeah, it's possible... But for that to have happened, they would have had to have known DeOrr was seriously ill/ badly injured, and then what - instead of taking him to hospital, intentionally planned the camping trip so they would have somewhere convenient to dump/ "lose" him when he eventually died? I can't imagine even J and V being that evil Or maybe they didn't know he was actually dying, but thought a few days on the mountain would give him time to heal away from prying eyes? I don't see this happening either... Easier to hide him at home rather than camping.

Yes, there have been several cases like that, most horrible. The one that comes immediately to mind is the case of Little Boy Blue. He was sick, laid in the backseat of the car and when he died his father (allegedly) threw the body in cornfield. This is from memory, could have a slight deviation of fact, but that's the gist.

The second case is worse and hard to find. A pair of carny workers, I believe, had a bunch of kids and when they were driving across country, if one got sick and died (several did), they just threw out the bodies. Again, this is from memory, but one of the most horrific cases I have ever read.

:cow:

 

[neesaki]

When people first started kicking that idea around I thought it was pretty far-fetched, but then read about a similar case where the father was carting around a "sleeping" child for a couple of days and no one suspected anything. At trial, a doctor said the child probably had a subdural hematoma, and had lapsed into a coma over a few days. Then he mysteriously disappeared/ was abducted when the father left him alone for a few minutes (father was convicted of the child's murder).

http://law.justia.com/cases/pennsylvania/superior-court/1994/433-pa-super-280-2.html

So yeah, it's possible... But for that to have happened, they would have had to have known DeOrr was seriously ill/ badly injured, and then what - instead of taking him to hospital, intentionally planned the camping trip so they would have somewhere convenient to dump/ "lose" him when he eventually died? I can't imagine even J and V being that evil Or maybe they didn't know he was actually dying, but thought a few days on the mountain would give him time to heal away from prying eyes? I don't see this happening either... Easier to hide him at home rather
than camping.

This is an interesting theory, as brain trauma due to closed head injuries can be very insidious. An example that immediately comes to mind is Liam Neeson's wife who hit her head in a ski accident, but said she was fine so didn't seek medical help right away. If something like that happened Deorr could have seemed fine and gone to sleep as usual, but as the brain swelled this would have caused him to worsen, have nausea and vomiting with possible aspiration, become unresponsive, slip into a coma and / or possibly die during the night or the next day.

I hate thinking along these lines, but I guess anything's possible. I hope even more that someone has him.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Yes, there have been several cases like that, most horrible. The one that comes immediately to mind is the case of Little Boy Blue. He was sick, laid in the backseat of the car and when he died his father (allegedly) threw the body in cornfield. This is from memory, could have a slight deviation of fact, but that's the gist.

The second case is worse and hard to find. A pair of carny workers, I believe, had a bunch of kids and when they were driving across country, if one got sick and died (several did), they just threw out the bodies. Again, this is from memory, but one of the most horrific cases I have ever read.

:cow:

Second case. Kenneth and Irene Dudley.

 

[zencompass]

Do we know whether they had taken two vehicles to the Silver Dollar on Thursday evening?

I think that some good information was gleaned from witnesses at the Silver Dollar on that Thursday evening.

 

[jessie]

This is an interesting theory, as brain trauma due to closed head injuries can be very insidious. An example that immediately comes to mind is Liam Neeson's wife who hit her head in a ski accident, but said she was fine so didn't seek medical help right away. If something like that happened Deorr could have seemed fine and gone to sleep as usual, but as the brain swelled this would have caused him to worsen, have nausea and vomiting with possible aspiration, become unresponsive, slip into a coma and / or possibly die during the night or the next day.

I hate thinking along these lines, but I guess anything's possible. I hope even more that someone has him.

Sorry, jumping in here again.

If this had happened it would be an accident - surely normal parents would have reported it, called 999 (in UK) - it isn't something that needed to be covered up FGS.

On the other hand, if the brain trauma was due to abuse from dysfunctional parents then I suppose they could possibly hope
to avoid prosecution by making up some ridiculous 'abduction' story and disposed of their child's body.

 

[Trident]

I wonder about that also, especially with the weird EMT bag "rumor." DK was wearing a bright orange hoodie the whole time, which seemed to make him look like he was with S & R... I wonder if anyone was keeping tabs on them during those first few days. Just thinking out loud...


ETA: And now that I've kind of seen how Bowerman operates, I think his nonchalant dismissal of the EMT bag as being involved could mean exactly the opposite. He doesn't want to reveal a fleck of evidence - he sugar coated the parents for six months before finally admitting they were suspects.... he's good.

Yep, the EMT bag. I've brought that up in many posts throughout these threads. There is something very hinky about that, and someone close to the first interview wanted it brought up, which it never was - for another reasonable-sounding excuse? Someone wanted "put paid" to that rumor right at the get go, and they got lucky, SB did it for them, IMO, whatever his thought process might have been. I believe the EMT bag was also to be excused, quite reasonably, as having NO part in this. Maybe so, but I have always believed there was something VERY hinky about that. A bag that size could enclose a small child, and it is gone/poof. Where did it go? Where is DeOrr?

Could be wrong, just a thought, and I have no logistical information to add. It's just a TOOOO strange coincidence for me.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

To those that think there is something behind the EMT bag:

Where do you think DeOrr's body was before it was placed in the bag?
Don't you think it would have been highly risky and beyond stupid for DK and JM to (1) break into a vehicle belonging to a member of SAR and steal the bag, (2) retrieve the body and stuff it in the bag, and (3) escape with the bag and dispose of it all with LE and SAR on the scene?

I don't think the bag has anything to do with baby DeOrr.

 

[TxJan1971]

BBM

It appears the sheriff called in the FBI approximately one week after the baby "allegedly" disappeared Friday, July 10, 2015.

The sheriff also said on Friday (7/17) that the FBI is sending a team of investigators to assist the Lemhi County Sheriff's office who will be checking the sheriff's office interviews and may re-interview some people to make sure deputies didn't miss anything.
http://kboi2.com/news/local/sheriff-says-hes-convinced-deorr-kunz-was-not-abducted

It was reported that FBI got involved in early August

http://q13fox.com/2015/08/02/fbi-investigators-join-search-for-missing-idaho-2-year-old-deorr-kunz/

FBI investigators join search for missing Idaho 2-year-old Deorr Kunz
POSTED 2:47 PM, AUGUST 2, 2015

LEADORE, Idaho (AP) — The FBI is sending a team of investigators to assist the Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office in its search for a missing 2-year-old who disappeared during a family camping trip.

KBOI reports Sheriff Lynn Bowerman said he’s convinced the toddler was not abducted, but he can’t rule out the possibility.

So, Friday, July 17...

Oh wait, Sunday, August 2nd...

I know it doesn't really matter probably, I just HATE all of the discrepancies in this case.

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BBM
Maybe this will help

July 17
I bolded the word "said" because July 17th was the first date where we can say there is an actual MSM article that gives us a general timeline as to “when” the sheriff first “said” (to someone) that he had contacted the FBI for help. We don't know when he actually called them. It could have been earlier than the 17th. The 17th is when he made a statement that he had done so. His statement was reported in the July 19 article.

August 2
In the August 2nd quote, they simply copied the same paragraph from the July 19 article saying: the "FBI is sending a team.” This leads the reader to believe that as of August 2nd the FBI wasn't yet on board and/or “was still sending” someone. However, this isn’t true, because if you listen to the video included, Nate tells us that JM & VDK released a statement on "Friday" (which was July 31), saying they hope their son was still alive, etc. and they also confirmed to Nate that they have already been in contact with the FBI and had their homes/vehicles searched. We do not know the date that occurred. We simply know that on Friday, July 31st they made a statement confirming they had already met with FBI.

~~~

So here’s what we know:

On or shortly before Friday, July 17th, 2015, SB outreached to the FBI for assistance.

On or before July 31st, the FBI had already met with JM & VDK and searched their homes/vehicles.

~~~

FWIW, here’s another article that would indicate that at least by July 31, FBI "had already" met with parents:

Friday, July 31, 2015

DeOrr’s parents confirm they have been in contact (no date given when this occurred) with the FBI and, according to Kunz, investigators have searched their house and vehicles.
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/par...-be-found/