ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #23

[Little Ol Me]

The cadaver dog hit is new. SB just kept it under his vest.

I agree that SB did not specifically reveal that a cadaver dog hit on a certain item, or place......such as equipment. However, IMO, he did hint at that.

Bessie: Right, I remember you telling us the last time. One of the other questions that comes up a lot is about the dog searches and the cadaver dogs, and we know that they were thrown off by the cremains in the reservoir, but before or after that did the…did either the scent dogs or the cadaver dogs alert or show any, you know, find anything that was relevant?

11:43
SB: You know, we had a couple alerts you know that were just kind of, we consider nothing major, but um a dog reacts unusual in a certain area and so we put more dogs in there and none of the other dogs alerted so, um…you know. Actually, it’s been not real positive from having those dogs in there. We didn’t have anything that really led us to a certain place within our 3 mile radius.

 

[Tr.]

I think it is called a "tell" or an "indicator".
A "tell" like in poker is a change in a player's behavior or demeanor.

When lying, there are certain "tells" or "indicators". Everyone is different and for some people they do give themselves away rather obviously where with others it can be difficult to tell if they are lying. When I am fibbing with my wife I always give myself away because I start to smile or giggle. I cant help myself.

I found a link and I think it describes what you are talking about. Here is part of it and Bolded the part that you may be talking about for Jessica:

"
If you are wondering if someone is lying, look for verbal changes like:
more pauses
slower speech
stuttering
elevated pitch


Facial expressions

Watching a person’s face when he or she is talking can tell you a lot about whether the person is lying, since it is difficult to control facial expressions and the emotions behind them.

A few facial signs to watch for that may suggest that someone is lying:
expressions that don’t match the words that are being said (saying “I love you” with an angry scowl)
expressions that don’t match the timing of the words (saying “Wonderful!” and not smiling until a few seconds later)

Here are some other facial signs that a person might be lying:
hiding emotions (showing no emotion)
masking real emotions with false ones
showing emotion when none is felt

Experts also recommend focusing on the eyes and forehead, which are harder areas of the face to control than the mouth and cheeks. It’s in these areas where honest emotion can be more easily detected.
"

http://sciencenetlinks.com/student-teacher-sheets/all-about-lying-honest/

Yes thats it..if you watch her she will slow down her speech and speak more distinctly in a different tone.

 

[SmartSassyBBW]

Deleted

 

[Rayemonde]

Most people talk like this, you would be surprised. Speech never reads well, especially when the transcription is full of typos and has incorrect or no punctuation. Not putting down the transcriber by any means, just saying - I have read thousands of depositions - the way people talk reads poorly.

It's not a transcription, it's what VK wrote.

 

[2Hope4]

Thinking of you tonight DeOrr.

 

[Jackeee]

One of the many things I've wondered about. Does JM's face appear to be sunburned in the first video? It made me think that something happened to Deorr with the heat.

 

[jnblsm]

Actually, my post was helping out. When the mods aren't here to supervise and someone starts posting things that are against the rules, that just creates more chaos for the mods when they DO get here and find they have to do a bunch of clean up. I know, it happened to me.

Agree!
Mods can't be everywhere all the time, they're busy. We need to self-regulate every now and then because we know better. They count on us, imo, to follow the rules.
You simply stated your opinion, then backed it up with links to support the reason you came up with your conclusion.
My point is: Don't be discouraged at posting your opinion. I know you're new here, but your opinion is valued!

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[The Apparition]

Well, according to the experts and articles I've read, constant use of the word "I", constant unfinished sentences, constant control over the conversation with rambling are afew. I probably should dig up a link...but there's a lot of great reading on line about spotting a liar.

I am interested in the study of lying also. With his constant switching of pronouns, self editing, and doubling adjectives VDK is a fun guy to study. A few things that really bothered me were "I knew I was in trouble" that is leakage and not what you'd expect to hear from a guy who's kid is lost on a mountain the kid is in trouble! "We decided to call search and rescue" is disturbing because it's true. He is basically saying we got our story straight and called LE. Calling 911 is not a "decided" kind of act it is because of an emergency you don't discuss it you do it. And my personal favorite VDKism is how he managed to say "dead" twice in the interview with Eaton. People searching for recently missing persons don't usually find themselves using the word dead twice in such a short period of time, unless of course they are leaking guilt through their speech.

 

[jnblsm]

I've said it before and I'll say it, again, just from posts that her family / friends have made, they believe in their own form of justice - and it does not include rules or law enforcement. She will def be safer in jail - or perhaps not if her friends have friends in jail...if you know what I mean.

I read this post earlier, probably in real time, and it's been resonating to me all day.
Interesting.

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[Jackeee]

I am interested in the study of lying also. With his constant switching of pronouns, self editing, and doubling adjectives VDK is a fun guy to study. A few things that really bothered me were "I knew I was in trouble" that is leakage and not what you'd expect to hear from a guy who's kid is lost on a mountain the kid is in trouble! "We decided to call search and rescue" is disturbing because it's true. He is basically saying we got our story straight and called LE. Calling 911 is not a "decided" kind of act it is because of an emergency you don't discuss it you do it. And my personal favorite VDKism is how he managed to say "dead" twice in the interview with Eaton. People searching for recently missing persons don't usually find themselves using the word dead twice in such a short period of time, unless of course they are leaking guilt through their speech.

VDKism. I like that, mainly because there's been a truckload of it.
I enjoy your posts. Unless of course, I don't agree with you. That hasn't really happened yet (maybe just a smidge) so don't go all VDK on me explaining yourself. Lol

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The wording equipment is odd, does anyone remember SB talking about searching in compartments and could they have missed a compartment, I think he was eluding to the camper

Could JM have put little DeOrr into a compartment in the trailer as a means of discipline, and he passed from lack of air.

Anyway, how did 3 persons (one of 3) something deadly to little Deorr without the presence of the 4th person?? Did IR an early-morning-counting of minnows at the creek and some meters above a child died silently and was hidden and when IR came back, there were 3 lying adults minus 1 toddler?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

HOLY MOLY. I've been off the site mostly lately, taking a break and checking in every now and then to scan for news. The fact that JM has broken down is huge!!! So many huge things!! This had all better be true. Tbh, I was feeling like this case was going to go cold. I'd held out hope that she would crack (I always felt she was more likely to and that VDK was the more guilty and the much more stupid of the two, but who knows), but it was fading. Justice. I smell justice. And I want it!!

I have the impression of a stupid acting and somewhat helpless VDK who wants to protect his Princess Jessica, even if she did something evil to his own flesh and blood. JM's first partner BB seems to be the better of them two and perhaps VDK is also. Maybe her preferred type of a man is exactly that: a knight who is always helping her through life.
She will never thank someone, that's clear. BB/VDK, you both boys, finally wake up!*
IMO

* I'm parent to adult boys and girls.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I think the parents wanted alone time and was frustrated that Deorr needed attention. So I think moms snapped and now claiming a accident just like 95% of the parents or lovers that say the same thing. Even if the child is found with broken bones due to shaking them or beating them.

So Klein needs to seriously stop saying that it was an accident since these deaths are usually murders by someone who in their minds believe that it was an accident at the time because they didn't mean to go that far in hurting said kid. Jmo.

 

[Arnie M]

.

There are still too many things amiss in this whole situation.

They would have no reason to cover up an accident unless there was something about the "accident" that implicated the parents or GGF .... such as the child "accidentally" consuming an illegal drug stash .... or someone was driving impaired and "accidentally" ran over the kid .... or they let the kid ride in the back of the truck and he fell out

The parents must have a reason for not telling everything . For all we know GGP maybe "accidentally" did something negligent and they are covering for him. All kinds of possibilities. If that was the case the trip to the store was a ruse that enabled them to get rid of the body.

I still have my reservations about Klein .... what triggered this outpouring of information all of a sudden ??? ... I doubt he uncovered it himself .... maybe he is simply being the mouthpiece accuser on behalf of LE to make the parents sweat a bit. He better have his azz covered because those are pretty strong accusations to make without any real evidence.


No Mountain Lions were abused in the construction of this post

 

[Rayemonde]

I would be interested to know how exactly JM admitted to knowing where DeOrr's body is. What were her exact words... Because if she had admitted it explicitly, it seems like she wouldn't be backtracking now the way she seems to be...

Did she say "Yes" or even just nod her head when they asked her if she knew, and then break down crying and not say anything else?

If she'd actually said something like "Yes, I know where he is but I'm not telling you where" it seems like she wouldn't be denying it now....

 

[Ekkwhine]

I don't know if we have a standard name, it varies by agency and jurisdiction, etc. I think the FBI uses something like the term Ekkwhine mentioned - family liaison or family support officer. Some agencies use a term like communications specialist. They tell the family that the officer is there to offer support, guidance, help them through the process, for protection and/or in case there is a ransom call, etc. However, the officer is also there to keep an eye on the family and monitor their behavior.

I watched an interview with the officer assigned to the Shannon
Matthews case here in the UK and she mentioned lots of behaviour that didn't tie in with the heartbroken mother facade that was being switched on for the camera, in fact she actually said the tears would be turned off as soon as Karen was back in the house and she'd be laughing and joking. Up until then it had never occurred to me that the officer, as well as offering support could provide a 'behind the scenes' insight into a family.

 

[Rayemonde]

I watched an interview with the officer assigned to the Shannon
Matthews case here in the UK and she mentioned lots of behaviour that didn't tie in with the heartbroken mother facade that was being switched on for the camera, in fact she actually said the tears would be turned off as soon as Karen was back in the house and she'd be laughing and joking. Up until then it had never occurred to me that the officer, as well as offering support could provide a 'behind the scenes' insight into a family.

Yes, and Mick Philpott did something similar. The family were also put up in a hotel since their house had burned down, but LE had bugged the room and the recording were used in court. Didn't LE tell J and V to go and get some rest in a hotel a couple of days after DeOrr disappeared? Hopefully that was bugged.

The dad accused of killing six of his children in a house fire staged a pretend faint when he saw their bodies for the first time in the mortuary, a court heard today.

Mick Philpott also asked for booze and engaged in horseplay with a police liaison officer days after the tragedy while bemused staff looked on, jurors were told.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/derby-house-fire-trial-mick-1732253

 

[Trident]

I would be interested to know how exactly JM admitted to knowing where DeOrr's body is. What were her exact words... Because if she had admitted it explicitly, it seems like she wouldn't be backtracking now the way she seems to be...

Did she say "Yes" or even just nod her head when they asked her if she knew, and then break down crying and not say anything else?

If she'd actually said something like "Yes, I know where he is but I'm not telling you where" it seems like she wouldn't be denying it now....

Who can know with any exactitude the way things are being "released, hemmed and hawed, and dribbled out"? If she said "on the mountain," well that ain't exactly the "evidence" we were promised, is it?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Urgh, the Matthews and the Philpotts. Dregs of British society.

 

[Ekkwhine]

Didn't I read somewhere quite early on something along the lines of them knowing that little DeOrr had died and that evidence had indicated HOW he'd died? Or am I way off and thinking of another case? I've not been well and done a lot of reading the last few nights into the early hours, I should have saved links to articles. If that was the case then surely the evidence would be blood, specifically HIS, to be so certain?