ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #24

[desert-blue]

Liquor laws etc...

It might depend on the time of day/evening. I seem to recall the bar stays open later.

"This Cafe shares kitchen with a bar but the eating area is completely separate. Very neat and clean. Wildlife decor. Food is very well cooked and hamburgers and fries are very good. Very reasonable rates. On a lonely road this was a welcome stop!"

http://m.yelp.com/biz/silver-dollar-cafe-leadore

My experience with dining in Idaho is that if the kitchen is still open and serving food then kids are allowed in designated areas. Once the kitchen closes, it's considered a bar and no one under 21 is allowed.

The comment by Bowerman that they "tried to get food" made me think the kitchen was closed, which means that legally, DeOrr would not have been allowed inside. Just speculation, of course, because we don't know if Bowerman was referring specifically to the Silver Dollar on Thursday night - just an assumption on my part...

 

[desert-blue]

If DeOrr's body is found and it has been buried, then I think wandering off can safely be ruled out.

 

[renarde]

My experience with dining in Idaho is that if the kitchen is still open and serving food then kids are allowed in designated areas. Once the kitchen closes, it's considered a bar and no one under 21 is allowed.

The comment by Bowerman that they "tried to get food" made me think the kitchen was closed, which means that legally, DeOrr would not have been allowed inside. Just speculation, of course, because we don't know if Bowerman was referring specifically to the Silver Dollar on Thursday night - just an assumption on my part...

So if all four were having drinks at the bar after Leadore had rolled up its sidewalks for the night... I think we would've heard. Although we didn't even know about the Thursday visit to the Silver Dollar until fairly recently. We still don't know when anyone arrived in Leadore.

 

[Rayemonde]

Exactly. They are doing this to themselves because they prefer this to admitting what they know about their son's death, which I presume is because it wasn't just a "simple" accident. All they want is for everything to die down so they can get on with their lives... maybe relocate to a beach town on the tip of Florida? moo

Plus they chose to hire Klein... After already falling out with their last PI. They had plenty of opportunity to look up Klein's track record and read criticism of him from past clients who weren't happy about him. Yet they still chose to raise the money to hire him. They're the one's who have turned this tragedy into a circus, imo.

 

[Deleted member 718]

For anyone who cares, here is Klein's answer about the last person to see DeOrr besides the the four people at the campsite:

Question: When was the last time someone other than these four had eyes on Little DeOrr?

ANSWER : Great question - we have one witness at 6 p.m. on the night before.


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Would the night before be Wednesday or Thursday?

 

[renarde]

Would the night before be Wednesday or Thursday?

I think Thursday. But then... why start the timeline at 8 a.m. on Friday?

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I think Thursday. But then... why start the timeline at 8 a.m. on Friday?

I think because up to that time the stories where "straight" or consistent. Thereafter, they change a lot?

 

[Deleted member 718]

If DeOrr's body is found and it has been buried, then I think wandering off can safely be ruled out.

When I think about his body being buried out there alone in the wilderness, it seems so macabre like a Steven King novel. And I wonder if the parents forgot - left some bit of evidence with him - that haunts them, makes them bolt awake at night knowing that when his body is found, it will tell the tale of his death.

Similar to how Scott Peterson felt when his baby washed ashore.

 

[Trident]

When I think about his body being buried out there alone in the wilderness, it seems so macabre like a Steven King novel. And I wonder if the parents forgot - left some bit of evidence with him - that haunts them, makes them bolt awake at night knowing that when his body is found, it will tell the tale of his death.

Similar to how Scott Peterson felt when his baby washed ashore.

Well that raised the hair on the back of my neck.

 

[12madelyn]

It's what some people call tough s***, if you go around disappearing your children you've got to expect your employers to take a dim view sorry but MOO.


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I agree. Plus, it was actually Bowerman who first publicly said there was no abduction or animal attack.

 

[kammiemc]

Would the night before be Wednesday or Thursday?

I am assuming Thurs, but I kinda wish he would have specified. Of course given the very large window that has been shared by SB for when they could have left IF, who knows if this witness sighting was in IF, on the road from IF to Leadore, or in Leadore!


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[Rayemonde]

If anyone's feeling sorry for J and V - try putting yourself in DeOrr's shoes instead of the shoes of the suspects. Even if it turned out DeOrr did wander away and die, that only happened because his parents weren't bothering to watch him in what they knew was a dangerous place. Imagine DeOrr wandering off, looking for mommy... Getting lost, falling over, getting hurt, calling for mommy, crying, panicking... Imagine his terror when it started to get dark... Imagine drowning all alone, or being mauled by a wild animal...

No matter what actually happened up on that mountain, there's only one victim in this case.

 

[kammiemc]

I think because up to that time the stories where "straight" or consistent. Thereafter, they change a lot?

In addition to being consistent, as in same thing being told repeatedly with no significant variation, the stories of the campers must have pretty much matched each other and maybe also matched those of any witnesses.

Seems like that all must have fallen apart at 8 AM.

I do wonder if they put him to bed injured and he didn't make it through the night.


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[Mickshawn]

If anyone's feeling sorry for J and V - try putting yourself in DeOrr's shoes instead of the shoes of the suspects. Even if it turned out DeOrr did wander away and die, that only happened because his parents weren't bothering to watch him in what they knew was a dangerous place. Imagine DeOrr wandering off, looking for mommy... Getting lost, falling over, getting hurt, calling for mommy, crying, panicking... Imagine his terror when it started to get dark... Imagine drowning all alone, or being mauled by a wild animal...

No matter what actually happened up on that mountain, there's only one victim in this case.

Good post...You are exactly right......tears.

 

[ninij9]

Today is Mother's Day in the UK - I can't stop thinking about little DeOrr :baby:

Happy Mother's day to all the mommies across the pond!

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[ninij9]

If anyone's feeling sorry for J and V - try putting yourself in DeOrr's shoes instead of the shoes of the suspects. Even if it turned out DeOrr did wander away and die, that only happened because his parents weren't bothering to watch him in what they knew was a dangerous place. Imagine DeOrr wandering off, looking for mommy... Getting lost, falling over, getting hurt, calling for mommy, crying, panicking... Imagine his terror when it started to get dark... Imagine drowning all alone, or being mauled by a wild animal...

No matter what actually happened up on that mountain, there's only one victim in this case.

My 2 year old cousin wandered up a ladder and drowned in a yard full if relatives. Trust me when I say this, accidents do happen and there's definitely more than one victim when it does.

Not directed at Raymonde, but saying it because I'm here, I am surprised so many of us are beyond reasonably convinced that something nefarious has happened here. I mean they haven't even been charged yet. I'm not saying they are innocent, I'm just really surprised how far in alot of us are. For me, I'm not so sure. I also don't see the parents as evil, conniving, devious killers. I just can't see what I'm missing here.
Anyway, I hope they get back up there soon, find this baby and put it all together once and for all.

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[desert-blue]

My 2 year old cousin wandered up a ladder and drowned in a yard full if relatives. Trust me when I say this, accidents do happen and there's definitely more than one victim when it does.

Not directed at Raymonde, but saying it because I'm here, I am surprised so many of us are beyond reasonably convinced that something nefarious has happened here. I mean they haven't even been charged yet. I'm not saying they are innocent, I'm just really surprised how far in alot of us are. For me, I'm not so sure. I also don't see the parents as evil, conniving, devious killers. I just can't see what I'm missing here.
Anyway, I hope they get back up there soon, find this baby and put it all together once and for all.

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But if they aren't conniving and devious, why aren't they telling the truth? That's what I don't get. I agree that accidents happen, but eight months of deception about what happened that day?

 

[kammiemc]

I've posted a few times about how this case hasn't gotten that much media coverage. However, I think that Jessica and Vernal would likely overestimate how well-known the case is. I think that's a good thing. We want them to think that the entire county, the entire state, the entire country thinks they killed their son. I would rather them be delusional because they are more likely to feel the pressure.

I think you are probably right. By the same token, I wonder if they would have gone through with the coverup if they could have foreseen that the public would still care eight months later.

Maybe they thought it would be a story on the news and their life would go on with one fewer child and the sympathy of the community


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[Purplepixii]

My 2 year old cousin wandered up a ladder and drowned in a yard full if relatives. Trust me when I say this, accidents do happen and there's definitely more than one victim when it does.

So sorry to hear that ninij9 :hug:

 

[scmom]

Perhaps the conniving only started once the incident happened. None of us know for sure what happened but when SB came out and said that the parents know without a doubt what happened to the child and where he is, and that they are suspects it then becomes hard to see them in a light other than conniving.