ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #24

[Beezneez]

I really feel for the father of her two children. He seems more distraught than any of the rest of the family. Likely because he realizes that he has confirmation that his decision to limit his children's contact with their mother was a very good idea. It's certainly out there via the horses mouth that he doesn't consider their situation a shared custody one of the amiable nature.


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I expect to hear soon that he is taking her to court to sue for termination of rights. I don't know if he'll actually do it or if the info that has hit him over the past two days just has him ranting. I also feel like TBC and LMK are getting their mama-bear hats on and putting their foot down. JMO.

 

[ninij9]

I have just finished reading attorney Browning's statement. I agree with him 100%. Philip Klein is repulsive and is using this case for his own fame. I'm happy that the family is responding in this manner. Suppose that the parents ARE guilty of covering up an accident or worse, this blowhard is making a fair trial imposdible as be has turned the general public against the POI. It's for this reason exactly that the Police wouldn't come out and blab all of this crap to the media. This guy is awfully unprofessional and in my eyes he can be doing severe damage to what could turn out to be innocent people, OR hurt the chances of a fair trial if they are culpable. Could you imagine having a missing loved one, you hire a PI, and then he publicly accuses and attacks you? Like a publicity stunt?
Sorry to rant.
Where are you baby DeOrr?

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[K.L.Puyallup]

.

I notice mostly what Klein does is talk about himself .... sounds more like a marketing guy than a child finder.

Anyway ... Klein said ... JM knows where DeOrr is but will not tell us more than that Jessica responded something along the lines of .... DeOrr is in somewhere in the mountains

We could take that to mean she "knows" he is in the mountains , and not abducted or sold or something. Hard to know who to believe but I hope Klein isn't twisting her words around.

I am not a polygraph expert but the question she fumbled was ... "do you know where DeOrr is" .... for all we know she may have an internal conflict with that question .... for a while she thought he was lost ... then she thought he was abducted ... now she maybe thinks he is lost .... it could mess up her mind if indeed she is not sure.

At least I am willing to give her that much leeway .... but none for Klein .... I am still astounded he publicly accuses people in such a manner .... even if the parents are guilty he is way out of line.

.

From Chelsea Bretzel's live chat last night:

"The attorney did say today that the statement of knowing where the body is was more- not more- it was to the effect of, she was walking out of a question interview, he told me. And it was to the effect of her saying, when they asked her what she thought happened, she said, 'I think he's still up on the mountain, and we just haven't found him yet.'
But Klein, when I asked him that exact question yesterday, he said, 'no, that's a good question, but she's...'
Klein said, 'She does know where it is,' but that is from Klein. The attorney says that's just not true."

Also, from Klein's public statement regarding the lawsuit, here's a quick excerpt:
"Publicly, I urge Mr. Browning before he files suit against us - to have a strong heart to heart conversation with his clients. As we have clearly documented, recorded, and saved every portion of the case. "


I don't get the feeling that Klein is sensationalizing with his word choice, here. I do believe that Jessica has stated more than her attorney (or fiancee) is suggesting she has. And I do believe that Klein has proof of her saying this.

 

[Beezneez]

Hmmmm....well, I think I should point out that he wasn't the one linked to the family. That was his Chief Deputy Steve Penner. That being said, I think that was just a rumor, but who knows. People in small towns seem to all know each other, or be related in some way.

I'd love to hear your view on the LDS and their hidden secrets and how it ties in. Is the sheriff LDS? Trust me, growing up in Idaho, I've had my fair share of dealings with them. Interesting, indeed.

Penner is something like the mom's second cousin on her moms side. I don't think he is related to BW. I'm eyeball deep in the LDS culture here, while it isn't everyones cup of tea it isn't the FLDS. Those people are all a completely different species.
The LDS church here is very family centric but also very accountable to itself in the protection of children and owning up to responsibilities. If members of the church thought Deorr was being mistreated or that JM/DK needed help they would offer support and council. If the Kunz/Mitchell family declined, they would be respectful of that but let them know the offer stood.
They would also involve authorities without hesitation because that is their responsibility as a citizen.
Every large organized religion has its weird bits. Lets not even begin to discuss that.

 

[Beezneez]

From Chelsea Bretzel's live chat last night:

"The attorney did say today that the statement of knowing where the body is was more- not more- it was to the effect of, she was walking out of a question interview, he told me. And it was to the effect of her saying, when they asked her what she thought happened, she said, 'I think he's still up on the mountain, and we just haven't found him yet.'
But Klein, when I asked him that exact question yesterday, he said, 'no, that's a good question, but she's...'
Klein said, 'She does know where it is,' but that is from Klein. The attorney says that's just not true."

Also, from Klein's public statement regarding the lawsuit, here's a quick excerpt:
"Publicly, I urge Mr. Browning before he files suit against us - to have a strong heart to heart conversation with his clients. As we have clearly documented, recorded, and saved every portion of the case. "


I don't get the feeling that Klein is sensationalizing with his word choice, here. I do believe that Jessica has stated more than her attorney (or fiancee) is suggesting she has. And I do believe that Klein has proof of her saying this.

Like him as a person or not, he does seem to have his ducks in a row. I don't doubt for a minute that everything is documented, copied, scanned, filed twice, notarized and laminated just for fun. This guy can cover his bases.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

With DK's truck hauling up and down the road and being at a remote camp site, and even the drive to the camp site, I wonder how dirty the truck was when LE arrived. Did they hurriedly wash it in an attempt to get rid of the blood but missed a few spots? Did they drive it to the reservoir and give it a quick once-over that would have left traces upon which the dogs hit as they traveled from camp site to reservoir over and over again?

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Like him as a person or not, he does seem to have his ducks in a row. I don't doubt for a minute that everything is documented, copied, scanned, filed twice, notarized and laminated just for fun. This guy can cover his bases.

Yep, and being from Texas it ain't his first rodeo!

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I have just finished reading attorney Browning's statement. I agree with him 100%. Philip Klein is repulsive and is using this case for his own fame. I'm happy that the family is responding in this manner. Suppose that the parents ARE guilty of covering up an accident or worse, this blowhard is making a fair trial imposdible as be has turned the general public against the POI. It's for this reason exactly that the Police wouldn't come out and blab all of this crap to the media. This guy is awfully unprofessional and in my eyes he can be doing severe damage to what could turn out to be innocent people, OR hurt the chances of a fair trial if they are culpable. Could you imagine having a missing loved one, you hire a PI, and then he publicly accuses and attacks you? Like a publicity stunt?
Sorry to rant.
Where are you baby DeOrr?

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I don't like what's going on either, but I don't think the attorney's response is especially professional either.

I still wonder if LE/FBI gave Klein permission to reveal what he has, he was certainly very definite about it, I'd be disappointed if he went that far without the authority of the law.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

I wonder if DK bought his truck from a dealer or a private party. Dealers normally wash vehicles before putting them on the lot. I guess it's entirely possible though that a blind animal was running around town and slammed into the truck on the lot. Yeah, that's probably what happened...

 

[mommylicious]

I get the implication of the bumper, etc... but if it were truly a tragic accident, why cover it up? Accidents happen. Kids wander away, they drown in lakes and pools, they get hit by cars. Why continue this charade? Even if they panicked in the moment, wouldn't they have realized at some point that that was a mistake? And I know that everyone reacts differently, but we've now had multiple opportunities to view the parents at different times in the process and they've yet to indicate grief, in my opinion. As a parent, I just don't see how I could cover up my baby's accidental death, even in a panic, and then leave their little body cold and alone near some random campground. :tears:

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

I don't like what's going on either, but I don't think the attorney's response is especially professional either.

I still wonder if LE/FBI gave Klein permission to reveal what he has, he was certainly very definite about it, I'd be disappointed if he went that far without the authority of the law.

I thought Klein said in one of the recent interviews that LE knew what statements he was going to make prior to the interview.

 

[Trident]

From Chelsea Bretzel's live chat last night:

"The attorney did say today that the statement of knowing where the body is was more- not more- it was to the effect of, she was walking out of a question interview, he told me. And it was to the effect of her saying, when they asked her what she thought happened, she said, 'I think he's still up on the mountain, and we just haven't found him yet.'
But Klein, when I asked him that exact question yesterday, he said, 'no, that's a good question, but she's...'
Klein said, 'She does know where it is,' but that is from Klein. The attorney says that's just not true."

Also, from Klein's public statement regarding the lawsuit, here's a quick excerpt:
"Publicly, I urge Mr. Browning before he files suit against us - to have a strong heart to heart conversation with his clients. As we have clearly documented, recorded, and saved every portion of the case. "


I don't get the feeling that Klein is sensationalizing with his word choice, here. I do believe that Jessica has stated more than her attorney (or fiancee) is suggesting she has. And I do believe that Klein has proof of her saying this.

Is it possible JM believes VDK buried/placed the child somewhere on the mountain, but she does NOT know exactly where?

I'm baaackkk

 

[skinnycat]

The blood on the truck would have been tested for whether it was human or animal, if it would have come back as human we wouldn't still be here discussing this, the truck would have been impounded if the blood would have been human.

There is no way that they seen the blood and didn't test it, especially in the case of a missing kid, whose parents and great grand father don't want to share with the police what happened to DeOrr.

 

[K.L.Puyallup]

I get the implication of the bumper, etc... but if it were truly a tragic accident, why cover it up? Accidents happen. Kids wander away, they drown in lakes and pools, they get hit by cars. Why continue this charade? Even if they panicked in the moment, wouldn't they have realized at some point that that was a mistake? And I know that everyone reacts differently, but we've now had multiple opportunities to view the parents at different times in the process and they've yet to indicate grief, in my opinion. As a parent, I just don't see how I could cover up my baby's accidental death, even in a panic, and then leave their little body cold and alone near some random campground. :tears:

I still feel like the only reason they'd cover up an accident would be if there was some illegal activity connected to the incident. If we're going the blood-on-the-bumper route, drunk driving?

 

[skinnycat]

Is it possible JM believes VDK buried/placed the child somewhere on the mountain, but she does NOT know exactly where?

I'm baaackkk

At this point in time I see anything as possible, but if those parents know what happened to that sweet little boy who had so much life to live, then they need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, GGP too I don't care how old and sick he may be, someone needs to start telling the truth.

 

[Hoosier952]

As far as the cremains and SB go-

I think the cremains is still a touchy subject with my brain. It's either a ridiculously odd coincidence or there's more to it. I've been trying to not let it affect my opinion on this case, because I think there are far more important issues.

I do wonder if perhaps the cremains made it easier for SB to "write off" the cadaver dogs alerting to the public. Maybe he didn't want that information to leak out. Maybe he thought JM and VK would run if they thought they were busted. Maybe it made it easier to play "good cop" with them. Maybe I'm completely wrong, but I feel like SB had his fingers pointed at VK and JM from the beginning. Calling in drones, the FBI coming in, not buying into the abduction story, etc. I also don't think most LE want to label anyone as suspects until there's some solid proof. IIRC, the labeling didn't happen until FBI results started coming in. If cadaver dogs hit on the truck, I would be surprised if those areas weren't swabbed and sent off for testing. I am curious as to why the vehicle wasn't impounded if the cadaver dogs did indeed hit on the truck.

There were over 100 people and LE searching, it would be amazing if everything that happened during the search stayed with the searchers and LE, but that's just not how people work. People talk, stories are overheard and misheard.

 

[Midge Montana]

The blood on the truck would have been tested for whether it was human or animal, if it would have come back as human we wouldn't still be here discussing this, the truck would have been impounded if the blood would have been human.

There is no way that they seen the blood and didn't test it, especially in the case of a missing kid, whose parents and great grand father don't want to share with the police what happened to DeOrr.

Right. If I understand correctly this bumper blood detail was released by one of the DeOrrs to explain away what the evidence actually was, right? That doesn't mean that's what evidence Klein is actually talking about. Could be just another diversion and a way to steer away from what was actually found.

 

[K.L.Puyallup]

Is it possible JM believes VDK buried/placed the child somewhere on the mountain, but she does NOT know exactly where?

I'm baaackkk

Hmm. It's possible.
I don't know, I just don't get the feeling that Klein would say something so definitive and accusatory without firm knowledge and documentation.
He didn't say it in a way that left much room for personal interpretation.

 

[Onebest]

I have just finished reading attorney Browning's statement. I agree with him 100%. Philip Klein is repulsive and is using this case for his own fame. I'm happy that the family is responding in this manner. Suppose that the parents ARE guilty of covering up an accident or worse, this blowhard is making a fair trial imposdible as be has turned the general public against the POI. It's for this reason exactly that the Police wouldn't come out and blab all of this crap to the media. This guy is awfully unprofessional and in my eyes he can be doing severe damage to what could turn out to be innocent people, OR hurt the chances of a fair trial if they are culpable. Could you imagine having a missing loved one, you hire a PI, and then he publicly accuses and attacks you? Like a publicity stunt?
Sorry to rant.
Where are you baby DeOrr?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

I respect your opinion. However, JM and VDK have been declared suspects by LE and have been for quite some time. They, as a family hired Klein to do exactly what he is doing. They solicited public funds to pay him and I belive knew full well! Some of his findings would be released to the public who paid his expenses. If they didnt want that to happen could they just not have taken public money? I would assume so.

I agree Klein can be annoying and loud. The family ASKED him to do his loud annoying job and now that he is saying they need to come forward with the truth it's annoying to them to the point they want to sue him. I would bet my bottom dollar if he was just as loud and annoying about their innocence they wouldn't be complaining at all. Isnt Klein in essence saying the same thing that LE said a few weeks ago? JM and VDK are lying?

So LE, 2 PIs, FBI all say the parents need to tell the truth, they're still not happy with those answers, SO they hire an attorney. This attorney AFAIK used to be an ambulance chaser and now he's decided he is going to be a defense attorney, speaking his annoying truth on the news. SO he is is happy to say whatever they want and sue who ever they feel like suing. Go figure. I would also place a bet that there's gonna be some kind of fundraising for that.

Another idea is MAYBE they could just come forward with the truth like LE has requested and then none of this would be happening. They actually have total control. jmo of course and again, I completely respect yours!

 

[Butler]

I expect to hear soon that he is taking her to court to sue for termination of rights. I don't know if he'll actually do it or if the info that has hit him over the past two days just has him ranting. I also feel like TBC and LMK are getting their mama-bear hats on and putting their foot down. JMO.

A parent just can't go to court to get the other parent's rights terminated. IF and when JM is convicted of a crime, which she hasn't even been charged yet, BB may be able to ask the state to step in with a CPS case.

The only way a parent can have parental rights terminated is IF 1. The non-custodial parent is willing AND 2. there is a person willing and able to step up to adopt the children.

Only the state (IDHW) can request parental rights be terminated without consent.