ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #24

[kammiemc]

Ok, I'll bite, why are you asking ? tia

I am sure no one is entertaining that they arrived at the campsite, DeOrr got bitten by a mosquito, he immediately contracted something like the the West Nile or Zika virus, died, and the parents covered his death.

If the idea is that he might have had a condition that started beforehand in IF, why limit it to mosquitos? It could be any sort of condition--sepsis from an untreated injury, sun blisters from the 4th, or any versions of a rash, cat scratch fever, meningitis, the list goes on. Toddlers are so small. They have less fluid and weight. Their conditions can become critical quickly. DeOrr would have been susceptible to being compromised by many more conditions than mosquitos could cause.


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[kammiemc]

There are mosquitos in the Idaho mountains, but they aren't always "bad" in particular places at particular times.

Are you thinking someone used ggp's o2 generator (appears to be about the size of a binocular case to smallish lunchbox) to injure or kill DeOrr? Or that ggp transferred DNA matter to his generator? If that were the case I would think that SB might have brought GGP up to suspect level like he has the parents. But who knows.

ETA: Sorry, Original Poster was not Ready Set!


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[kammiemc]

Alright - here's a theory I haven't seen posted before and I don't really think it is likely but here it is anyway.

IR killed DeOrr either purposefully or accidentally and hid the body. Parents are innocent. I can't really explain their polygraphs other than saying they are not admissible.

BUT LE and Klein are going after them to try to get IR to talk. If he thinks he's in the clear, he may give up a fact that LE already knows (or maybe doesn't know) and only the killer would know. And then they have him.

Meanwhile, they keep the parents in the dark so their responses and everything seems real/raw.

It is a crazy theory but sometimes, truth is stranger than fiction.

I feel extremely certain that this is not why LE, FBI and Klein (and, heck, Vilt) are all saying the parents have been untruthful (lied).


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[ReadySet]

Regarding the idea of an accident/coverup:

What if it was both abuse and an accident? For example, the baby was physically abused, and then died from an accident, like an overdose of Benadryl. The parents knew that an autopsy would show the abuse, so they hid the body. I'm not saying I think that's what happened; just struggling with the idea that no parent has EVER hid a child who died because of an accident.

Another thought about why GGP might be protected; money/meal ticket/possible inheritance? Not saying I think that, just throwing out ideas.

 

[ReadySet]

Are you thinking someone used ggp's o2 generator (appears to be about the size of a binocular case to smallish lunchbox) to injure or kill DeOrr? Or that ggp transferred DNA matter to his generator? If that were the case I would think that SB might have brought GGP up to suspect level like he has the parents. But who knows.


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:thinking: It wasn't me that brought up the oxygen Kammie, it was another poster?

 

[ReadySet]

Did I reply to you? Sorry! I am on Tapatalk. Sometimes it seems to have a mind of its own! Or I might have replied to a reply? Sorry! I know that was not you!
(I'll delete when I get to my computer!)

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No problem! I finally caught up reading but now can't remember all the things I wanted to post. :gaah:

 

[The Apparition]

I feel extremely certain that this is not why LE, FBI and Klein (and, heck, Vilt) are all saying the parents have been untruthful (lied).


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Now hold up, have you ever heard the Chewbacca defense? Behold in all it's glory!

.ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!Why would a Wookiee, an 8-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of 2-foot-tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.[SUP][1][/SUP]

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[Hoosier952]

This is just a bunch of speculation and MOO and putting some thoughts on electronic paper.

I've never heard any information about a life insurance policy on Deorr. Could there be one? Maybe offered through an employer. I think employer offered life insurance for spouses and dependents aren't that great, but I'll never completely rule out stupidity when it comes to life insurance policies. $10k may sound like a lot to someone hard up for cash, but in reality, you could blow through that in a few weeks pretty easily or you could just put a down payment on a new truck.

I don't think anyone is covering for GGP. I think JM would have thrown him under the bus on the 911 call. The only thing that would change my opinion would be someone stating GGP was providing substantial financial resources for JM and VK.

My brain keeps thinking money is the motivating factor here tonight. They had some pretty big debts. And IMO, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a whole lot more that hadn't made it to court yet. I assume JM was paying child support as well. How does ID typically handle child support? Would it come straight from her paycheck? If they were having money issues, would JM dishing out money for support be enough to cause VK to lash out? Was paying for a 3rd child that may or may not have been wanted too much financial burden?

Would LE check for CPS reports? Even if CPS hadn't been involved with a welfare check, there might have been previous reports. If there was any ongoing abuse, I doubt they'd want CPS knocking on their door. And if you don't have a kid anymore, I doubt CPS will come a knockin'. Would there be financial consequences to having a child removed from the home? Would they have to pay support of any kind if the child was put in foster care or placed with a family member? Court costs if they wanted the child back? I've never had a child removed and I don't know anything about CPS or how ID works. The shame of having a child removed might be enough to set someone off.

 

[TeaTime]

Ok, I'll bite, why are you asking ? tia

Left in truck asleep, while at bar, windows open, mosquitoes attacked, hundreds of poisonous bites, allergy, shock.

 

[bessie]

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[MzOpinion8d]

MzOpinion - you took the thoughts right out of my head tonight.

Not to mention that they were at a very high altitude, where breathing gets a bit harder for us old folks.

Of course, the one theory that explains a cover up of an accidental death and who benefits, is the one called fear of prison, for extreme negligence and wanton disregard for the safety of their child.

Good point about the higher altitude - it would definitely make breathing harder for GGP.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I know someone posted that there's never been a no-body murder conviction in Idaho, but I just found one.



http://klewtv.com/news/local/charle...f-killing-his-estranged-wife-rachael-anderson

There's that Snake River again...

 

[MzOpinion8d]

There's no need to look for fancy motives, imo. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one. In most other cases like this when parents cover up a child's death and then report them missing, it is because the child has been beaten and they are afraid of murder charges.

I am with you on this...I was just speculating based on the accidental death theory, assuming the accident was caused by something other than physical abuse.

 

[2Hope4]

All this three ring circus is reminding me of Caylee Anthony. The PI didn't find her either. It's a huge distraction, and IMO, isn't going to find DeOrr nor can a PI bring charges against anyone.

JMO, but don't like this PI, nor his tactics.

 

[2Hope4]

There's multiple LE agencies working this case, including the FBI! What help would a PI be?? I don't understand.

 

[Tr.]

There's multiple LE agencies working this case, including the FBI! What help would a PI be?? I don't understand.

That might be a question for the baby's grandfather.

 

[pepelepolecat]

Left in truck asleep, while at bar, windows open, mosquitoes attacked, hundreds of poisonous bites, allergy, shock.

I have a mosquito-allergic kid. Really, it only takes one bite to trigger anaphylactic shock. But I'm just not sure why they'd try to cover this kind of thing up either. Yeah, an allergic kid with a mosquito bite is a mess (the bite swells up HUGE and red and hot), but the parents would know that it wasn't an injury they'd inflicted. Even when you throw in the fact that leaving him in the truck was neglectful ...

Then again, I'm looking at this from the wrong perspective, perhaps. It's like a kid who lies about something really insignificant but keeps lying because he's afraid he's going to get in even bigger trouble for lying, and then the whole thing just snowballs out of control. Maybe that's where these two are. They strike me as immature in several ways -- maybe they really were guilty of nothing more than neglect/accident but are now just afraid of "getting in trouble" for lying so are sticking to lies that everyone knows are lies.

What gets me in the end is the poly -- SB said they failed on questions about knowing where he was. But he didn't say anything about whether they hurt him -- and surely they'd have asked that, right?

 

[KayCherry]

I agree with this, and also believe he was in car seat while they were in the bar -

not sure about the mosquito theory, but certainly he could've woken up cranky and crying - the non-stop crying brings people to bash the babies often, so many die at the hands of shaken baby.

I am with you on this...I was just speculating based on the accidental death theory, assuming the accident was caused by something other than physical abuse.

 

[ConcernedCitizenID]

There's multiple LE agencies working this case, including the FBI! What help would a PI be?? I don't understand.

Seems to be par for the course for this family. They didn't like the answers (or lack thereof) that they were getting from LE/FBI at the beginning of the case, so they hired Mr. Vilt. They don't like Mr. Vilt's conclusions, so they fire him and hire another investigator to find the answers THEY want to hear. When they don't like Mr. Klein's conclusions, they not only fire him, but hire yet another party (an attorney) and threaten to SUE Klein. Do you see a pattern here? WASH. RINSE. REPEAT.

 

[Butler]

This is just a bunch of speculation and MOO and putting some thoughts on electronic paper.

I've never heard any information about a life insurance policy on Deorr. Could there be one? Maybe offered through an employer. I think employer offered life insurance for spouses and dependents aren't that great, but I'll never completely rule out stupidity when it comes to life insurance policies. $10k may sound like a lot to someone hard up for cash, but in reality, you could blow through that in a few weeks pretty easily or you could just put a down payment on a new truck.

I don't know about any insurance. I think it would be odd to have it on such a young child but that's just me. I would also think they would need a body to collect.

I don't think anyone is covering for GGP. I think JM would have thrown him under the bus on the 911 call. The only thing that would change my opinion would be someone stating GGP was providing substantial financial resources for JM and VK

.

Again I haven't seen any information GGP is financial support for anyone but it could be. Prior to July 10th it seemed both JM & VDK had jobs so at least they had some income. Maybe not the wisest people with money given the civil cases against JM. IMHO I think GGP doesn't have substantial financial, maybe just enough to live on.

My brain keeps thinking money is the motivating factor here tonight. They had some pretty big debts. And IMO, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a whole lot more that hadn't made it to court yet. I assume JM was paying child support as well. How does ID typically handle child support? Would it come straight from her paycheck? If they were having money issues, would JM dishing out money for support be enough to cause VK to lash out? Was paying for a 3rd child that may or may not have been wanted too much financial burden?

If JM was paying child support, it could have been taken out of her check. Most people who pay CS pay it that way. Easy & done. Idaho determines child support based on percentage of time spent in each parents home and the income of each parent. As a CNA she probably only made $9 to $10 an hour, really not that much money.

Would LE check for CPS reports? Even if CPS hadn't been involved with a welfare check, there might have been previous reports. If there was any ongoing abuse, I doubt they'd want CPS knocking on their door. And if you don't have a kid anymore, I doubt CPS will come a knockin'. Would there be financial consequences to having a child removed from the home? Would they have to pay support of any kind if the child was put in foster care or placed with a family member? Court costs if they wanted the child back? I've never had a child removed and I don't know anything about CPS or how ID works. The shame of having a child removed might be enough to set someone off.

LE would certainly have access to any CPS case information. I'm sure SB already checked into this. Yes there is financial consequences for having a child removed from the home. The state will charge the parents basically child support. I understand your questioning here but I believe if there had been a history with CPS there would be some indication of it. So far I haven't seen any hints in that direction.