ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - # 25

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  • #581
But the thing is, the abduction from the campground scenario makes no sense whatsoever! I don't think (gosh, I hope) that a jury would find that this creates reasonable doubt. I just wonder if they watched and listened to other interview of parents who lost a child. The bit about "he could do nothing wrong in our eyes" (sorry if this is a misquote, but it's an approximation) . .. seems like something a parent would say if their teenager was a runaway!

That freaked me out too. DeOrr was two years old. Of course he could do no wrong. And for DK to add, "especially in my eyes" or whatever his exact words. What did he mean...that others might have thought the toddler made some mistakes in life, but not DK? DK loved him so much he overlooked any misbehavior? It kind of seemed like he added that last part to indicate that he wasn't so sure about JM. But more likely he just doesn't think before he speaks.


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  • #582
Yeah, he's talked to the people who matter. I'm not going to judge him for choosing to stay away from the media circus, for whatever reason.

Exactly! Does anyone know how old GGP is?
 
  • #583
Hope it's OK persimmon but I'm sort of bumping this post as it intrigues me that JM's mother could get to the cg by 4.40 pm Friday.
Does anyone here remember this being spoken of, I have gone back to Thread #1, but haven't found it yet and it would be really important imo.

I remember that. 4:48pm IIRC. I'm sure I've read that she was there before LE/SAR but if 4:48pm is accurate it can't be right because I understand LE/SAR got around 4:00pm?
 
  • #584
True, and he's from another generation.
However, the distanced way he is mentioned, albeit briefly, "a trusted a respected adult", is very strange. It might be the way that they would talk if, let's say, Deorr was in daycare, and "went missing" from there . . . It's a whole new way of throwing GGP under the bus, just a bit. I mean, not even mentioning that he is Deorr's great-grandfather . ..

Yep! That sounds like lawyer speak right there. No negligence because it was a trusted, respected adult.


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  • #585
I remember that. 4:48pm IIRC. I'm sure I've read that she was there before LE/SAR but if 4:48pm is accurate it can't be right because I understand LE/SAR got around 4:00pm?


Thanks TTWO, I just don't recall hearing that before.

If correct (not doubting you and persimmon just the info) how on earth was that possible? JM must have phoned her mum far in advance of 911. So does this completely alter the timeline (again!).

I have a lot of different thoughts on this now because that would throw open a totally different scenario imo.
 
  • #586
Oh i know that, but wouldn't you think when a baby's life depends on it if innocent the people that were with that child would be more than willing to help authorities to locate that child as quickly as possible? But yeah, shutting you mouth from co operating with LE certainly helps if you are guilty and don't want to incriminate yourself.

They did talk to LE and the FBI but they weren't honest because they are guilty.
 
  • #587
Wasn't Jessica's mom suppose to be driving out anyway? Because family was going to be meeting them at the CG as was the plan? That would explain her mom getting there before SAR/LE? Unless I am remembering incorrectly.
 
  • #588
Supremely underwhelmed.
That's how I feel about this interview. It had the potential to be much more informative, but the interviewer AND the suspects missed the mark by a long shot, IMO. Now, I do realize that there may have been conditions in place set by the suspects as to what could be asked and what couldn't. When CB, in my opinion, encouraged them to blame Big Meanie Klein for speaking out against them, I was okay with that. If it had been a small percentage of the interview, in effect showing how their poor lives have been so disrupted. I'd say it was fair to give sometime to that point. Not that I give a care about that as it's a situation of their own making, but I consider myself a pretty fair person, so okay...
What I'd have LOVED to see addressed?
1. AND THIS IS A BIG ONE: Let's talk about the fact that you have each failed multiple polygraph tests and in addition, have told multiple versions of the events surrounding your son DeOrr's disappearance.
*This would be their PERFECT opportunity to explain just how in the world this has happened, IF indeed they are innocent of any wrongdoing. Why they, if innocent, would put that on the list of not-going-there questions is beyond me. Now...if they are not innocent...I can see why they wouldn't speak to that at all.

2. The suspects stating with conviction that they believe DeOrr was abducted and pleading for his return. Look your damn eyes into the camera and focus on the return of your child, not the doubt on yourselves by the public, which in reality you have brought on by lying. Grrr.

What I did see that led my mind to a bad place was JM talking about how little DeOrr would try to cheer her up when she was angry or upset. (Not sure of her exact wording.) Having been raised by an abusive mother that revelation punched me right in the gut. My little brother and I from a very young age learned that the best way to not get a beating that day was to try to keep my mother in a good mood. Keep the peace = keep the monster away. My heart sunk when I learned that little DeOrr too had learned to do that at a tender age. Add to that VDK's out-of-the-blue statement that the little guy could do no wrong (especially in his-VDK's-eyes) gave me shivers.
From the time I started following this case, I was pretty set on a hot car death theory. After this interview, I have changed my mind and not for the better.

As an aside, I was disappointed when I watched the extended version of the interview. Way too many screenshots of what I guess to be old news clips, scenery, etc. I'd really have loved to taken this rare opportunity to watch the faces and body language of the suspects as they interacted with the interviewer and answered her questions and spoke their sentences. The editing of that clip was poor and really took away from what was going on as far as discussion.
I must say, I keep waking up every single morning and HOPING that JM and VDK have finally come clean. That day cannot come soon enough.
 
  • #589
What I did see that led my mind to a bad place was JM talking about how little DeOrr would try to cheer her up when she was angry or upset. (Not sure of her exact wording.) Having been raised by an abusive mother that revelation punched me right in the gut. My little brother and I from a very young age learned that the best way to not get a beating that day was to try to keep my mother in a good mood. Keep the peace = keep the monster away. My heart sunk when I learned that little DeOrr too had learned to do that at a tender age. Add to that VDK's out-of-the-blue statement that the little guy could do no wrong (especially in his-VDK's-eyes) gave me shivers.
From the time I started following this case, I was pretty set on a hot car death theory. After this interview, I have changed my mind and not for the better.

rsbm and quoted for truth - up until now, I've seesawed quite a bit and felt pretty confused. But that interview last night made some pretty big impressions on me in much the same ways they did on you.
 
  • #590
  • #591
Supremely underwhelmed.
That's how I feel about this interview. It had the potential to be much more informative, but the interviewer AND the suspects missed the mark by a long shot, IMO. Now, I do realize that there may have been conditions in place set by the suspects as to what could be asked and what couldn't. When CB, in my opinion, encouraged them to blame Big Meanie Klein for speaking out against them, I was okay with that. If it had been a small percentage of the interview, in effect showing how their poor lives have been so disrupted. I'd say it was fair to give sometime to that point. Not that I give a care about that as it's a situation of their own making, but I consider myself a pretty fair person, so okay...
What I'd have LOVED to see addressed?
1. AND THIS IS A BIG ONE: Let's talk about the fact that you have each failed multiple polygraph tests and in addition, have told multiple versions of the events surrounding your son DeOrr's disappearance.
*This would be their PERFECT opportunity to explain just how in the world this has happened, IF indeed they are innocent of any wrongdoing. Why they, if innocent, would put that on the list of not-going-there questions is beyond me. Now...if they are not innocent...I can see why they wouldn't speak to that at all.

2. The suspects stating with conviction that they believe DeOrr was abducted and pleading for his return. Look your damn eyes into the camera and focus on the return of your child, not the doubt on yourselves by the public, which in reality you have brought on by lying. Grrr.

What I did see that led my mind to a bad place was JM talking about how little DeOrr would try to cheer her up when she was angry or upset. (Not sure of her exact wording.) Having been raised by an abusive mother that revelation punched me right in the gut. My little brother and I from a very young age learned that the best way to not get a beating that day was to try to keep my mother in a good mood. Keep the peace = keep the monster away. My heart sunk when I learned that little DeOrr too had learned to do that at a tender age. Add to that VDK's out-of-the-blue statement that the little guy could do no wrong (especially in his-VDK's-eyes) gave me shivers.
From the time I started following this case, I was pretty set on a hot car death theory. After this interview, I have changed my mind and not for the better.

As an aside, I was disappointed when I watched the extended version of the interview. Way too many screenshots of what I guess to be old news clips, scenery, etc. I'd really have loved to taken this rare opportunity to watch the faces and body language of the suspects as they interacted with the interviewer and answered her questions and spoke their sentences. The editing of that clip was poor and really took away from what was going on as far as discussion.
I must say, I keep waking up every single morning and HOPING that JM and VDK have finally come clean. That day cannot come soon enough.

That made me sad, too, Midge. I kind of couldn't believe that the example she used to explain DeOrr's personality started with her being depressed and irritated in the kitchen and him coming in saying "mama" and trying to cheer her up. I didn't like the picture that painted at all.


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  • #592
He bought chicken nuggets at a taco stand?
 
  • #593
My only point at all was that ggp could have told the sheriff some things and those things could have been accurate, or not. (I doubt that Bowerman has gone off of JM's version of what ggp relayed to her.) And his statements certainly could have changed over time.

IF he has some mental incapacity, which I personally don't think can be ruled out just because he can drive and tow a camper, then he could have been confused, easily convinced of a story by JM and DK or just have forgotten. (In addition to the fact that he also could, of course, be purposefully covering!)



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Not sure if this was in response to my post or not. Yes, he has a license, can follow traffic laws, has decent vision, can handle driving a trailer...his mental status may be such that he cannot do other tasks like supervise a child. I still wonder if he's more mentally capable of more than LE and/or MSM has given him credit for.

But my point is this. Since we are assuming based on Klein's assertion that the day's events reported by the parents are mere fiction, then why would their story include leaving Deorr in the care of GGP? If they wanted it to be believable why not just say JM thought VDK had him, and VDK thought JM had him. Why drag GGP into the picture if he is so bad off that it would make them appear more irresponsible and lacking judgement? IMO they would have a more accurate knowledge of what GGP is capable of, and they went as far as to call him a trusted adult.

Get me some Calamine lotion, because I'm ITCHING to hear GGP's 911 call.
 
  • #594
I think the biggest mistake made in this case was that all four weren't hauled into the local PD from the get go and interrogated appropriately as to what exactly happened to cause a toddler to go missing while in their presence. When statistics tell us in most missing child cases it is family or someone close to the family that are usually the culprits. Why did this lot get treated as if they were innocent? And they claim Deorr went missing from such a remote place with no one else around. Something about this whole case stinks IMO.


reminds me of when jonbenet went missing, LE got dad and a friend to go look for her, and dad found her in the basement, the whole crime scene was contaminated. and look where we are today with all that... still no answers.
 
  • #595
Let's for a moment assume that GGPA harmed DeOrr (unbeknownst to DK an JM) while they were away on their walk and when they came back, he was gone. We must also assume then that GGPA also (quickly, I assume, since they were only gone for a short time) hid the body so skillfully that no trace of DeOrr has been found, despite all the intensive searching. Okay, then. Why are DK and JM not able to tell a straight story about what happened from 8:00 am until around 2:00 pm, when they claim to have left the child in GGPA's care?
 
  • #596
No you're right GGP doesn't have to put anything out there in the public domain at all. Didn't SB state at one time about GGP that depends on what story you want to believe from him? I'm sure i read that somewhere?

(modsnip)

I guess we should just completely ignore the fact that GGP & IR were even on that camping trip at all seeing as no one knows anything about little Deorr except they think maybe they saw him there, but they can't be held accountable for anything either? And as far as the little guy's parents go well they are compulsive liars so just ignore their BS as well. So who is left in Deorr's corner then to vouch for him?

Obviously, I have no idea if GGP's mental issues are due to anything more than normal aging but it doesn't matter because the end result is the same -- he's impaired to the point that the sheriff knew ahead of time that his poly wouldn't be helpful.

Hopefully, LE can find Deorr. But the reality is that may not happen and the truth may never be known. Certainly wouldn't be the first time, unfortunately.
 
  • #597
This talk about (loosely paraphrasing) how Deorr would help his Momma cheer up or feel better when she was irritated reminded me of something that always distressed me so much regarding a relative's child who was removed from her custody several times.

A quick recap...2006-2008 we had custody on and off of my late husband's SIL's son (his brother, the baby's father, had died of a drug overdose when the baby was around 7-8 months old). Anyway, she repeatedly failed to followed the plan outlined by the courts, designed by CPS and agreed upon with her) yet she would still try to contact him, often drunk, begging me to let her talk to him on the phone. Sometimes she left messages in the middle of the night on our answering machine where she was crying, almost incoherently, wanting to talk to and see her son (she also had 2 daughters by another man who was awarded full custody years before). Anyway, she would say stuff like, "I NEED him. Doesn't anyone understand how I NEED him? He is the only thing that makes me happy. He's the only one who can cheer me up and feel better." I remember being so outraged. She wanted her neglected toddler son back to fulfill her emotional needs, even though it was very unsafe for him to be with her??? She never mentioned what she did for him (because it was next to nothing), just why she NEEDED to have him back, he was responsible for her adult emotional needs??? Talk about messed up! It was never about what she could do for him or even that she wanted to straighten out her life to be a good mom. It was all about her emotional despondence.

Sickening, really.
 
  • #598
Why didn't JM talk about the things she did for, or with, DeOrr that made HIM happy?
 
  • #599
Wasn't Jessica's mom suppose to be driving out anyway? Because family was going to be meeting them at the CG as was the plan? That would explain her mom getting there before SAR/LE? Unless I am remembering incorrectly.

My understanding was that JM's mom was originally planning to join them on Sunday.
 
  • #600
Supremely underwhelmed.
(snipped for focus)
2. The suspects stating with conviction that they believe DeOrr was abducted and pleading for his return. Look your damn eyes into the camera and focus on the return of your child, not the doubt on yourselves by the public, which in reality you have brought on by lying. Grrr.

What I did see that led my mind to a bad place was JM talking about how little DeOrr would try to cheer her up when she was angry or upset. (Not sure of her exact wording.) Having been raised by an abusive mother that revelation punched me right in the gut. My little brother and I from a very young age learned that the best way to not get a beating that day was to try to keep my mother in a good mood. Keep the peace = keep the monster away. My heart sunk when I learned that little DeOrr too had learned to do that at a tender age. Add to that VDK's out-of-the-blue statement that the little guy could do no wrong (especially in his-VDK's-eyes) gave me shivers.

Great post, Midge Montana. I agree and your second point is something that really struck me too. Over the years I've worked with a lot of alcoholics and addicts, so I am just speaking from that experience. There are certain personality traits, or "character defects", that are common among alcoholics and addicts. In my mind, these two display so many of those traits: Narcissism/self centeredness/selfishness. Dishonesty. Self pity. Inability to take responsibility for their own behaviors. Rationalization, minimizing and justifying, self-justification. Lack of humility. Arrogance. Gossiping. Inventory taking, being judgmental – pointing out the faults of others. etc.

We have no evidence that JM and VDK are addicts, but these traits just really stand out to me in the interviews. In my mind, the two comments you mentioned scream dysfunction and neglect/abuse in that "family" unit.
 
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