ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - # 25

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Is there a transcript of the extended interview?

 

[Purplepixii]

This is a very general thing, but I feel sorry for JM on one level (not on every other level, what she's presumably done and what she's doing now is unforgivable). Society puts a lot of expectations on women to want to be mothers. It's assumed at every step of the way during adulthood that you're trying to become pregnant, want to be pregnant, or if you're excited about something it's that you're pregnant. I think it's very very easy to go along with that without examining yourself and your suitability to parenthood before it's too late and a child exists.

There are lot of mothers out there that aren't maternal - but most of them still do a good job anyway because they take responsibility for their choices. Of course it's very wrong for women who discover they're not maternal too late to kill, harm, or abandon their children (obviously), but I think it would be a good thing if wider society stopped simply assuming every woman should be or wants to be a mother by default. Women who choose not to reproduce because they know they won't be good mothers should be praised and lauded, not criticised harshly as selfish as they so often are. They're the ones doing the right thing, and more women should be encouraged to really examine the choice of motherhood. It can never happen, but you really should have to jump through hoops to become eligible for parenthood. Nature makes it too damn easy.

RSBM.

The "thanks button" wasn't enough, thanks Eloise - succinctly & accurately put :grouphug:

 

[desert-blue]

What's with the "crazy mom status" spiel? I don't sense any maternal instincts in this woman. No crazy mom status in protecting her other two, apparently.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

What's with the "crazy mom status" spiel? I don't sense any maternal instincts in this woman. No crazy mom status in protecting her other two, apparently.

It means she's a mother that is crazy.

 

[desert-blue]

It means she's a mother that is crazy.

but not in a good way...


Too bad she doesn't use her crazy mom status to speak out and garner public attention to help find her son and get answers to what happened to him... (oh, wait....)

 

[Hatfield]

I don't think they really loved DeOrr at all. If they really loved him, how could they find him dead and then, instead of calling for help, dump him in the wilderness for animals to eat? Or just dig a hole and throw him in? Seriously, how could anyone do that if they found that their beloved child had accidentally died? How could they appear on TV afterwards showing barely any emotion? How could they set up an online shop selling missing posters (a missing poster was $5 when they first opened shop) and trinkets, and profit from their son's death?

Catching up.

All JMO

I must have missed any of the fundraisers they tried to do. I had not thought about the money angle in all of this. But if they actually pursued trying to make money then I do have to wonder if this whole thing had 2 purposes.

If they did not want to care for the child anymore and if they also saw other cases where lots of money was raised for missing children then I could see a possibility of this being done for those two reasons.

I would hope if that was the case that they gave the boy to someone who wanted to raise him as their own but I could also see where they may have decided upon themselves to carry out the plan which would end in the boys demise on the mountain.

Their lack of real emotion sticks out to me. When JM cries on the interview I read into it as crying for feeling guilty rather than crying for him being missing. Its just an impression I get when watching her that she knows already what happened and is crying for feeling guilty.
Her eye movements in the very first interview give her away that she is hiding something. Watching her look at VDK is very telling. She agrees with him when it is like they talked beforehand. She is a nervous wreck in the interview and its not because of the boy missing IMO.

VDK shows not a lot of emotion at all. When he did show emotion it almost looked forced. He seems to be caught up in the planning still as he jumps around different subjects. I suspect he was the brain child of whatever planning occurred. Either before they left or after some sort of accident.

It would be curious to see how much they tried to raise funds and how quickly did they start to pursue getting funds. I didn't hear a lot about that but I did see 1 post about it and it didn't seem too pushy although they may also fear if they are too pushy with fund raising then it throws suspicoun towards them. So maybe they had to change how they approached the fundraising. They probably felt others would do the work for them and the money would just come pouring in.

It seems that at first they were pushing he is lost theory but then they shifted to someone has to have him because he is not found by searchers.

They were both more than willing to think someone else has him and once they started to push that theory they stuck with that. The problem with them pushing that theory is the campground setting was not a crowded place like a store or a crowded campground. They were the only family anywhere close. It doesn't make any sense at all. They weren't looking at the big picture. Its not like some random kidnapper would choose to be waiting for them to look away so he could snatch the boy from them.

For one, a vehicle of the kidnapper would have to be close by. So the whole kidnapping theory is just ridiculous. So when they started to push that it made no sense. They would have us believe there were tons of strangers around and he was snatched. But from the sounds of the campground there was nobody even close to them except for the other campers up near the lake. And LE did talk with them already.

Another thing very strange to me about the whole story is the way the parents did not talk about the 2 other people that were there. During the first interview they purposely avoided mentioning the other 2 people.
There would be no reason whatsoever to tell their story and explain how there were 4 people camping and who drove what and who woke up where and what happened.

The only reason I could think of why they purposely did not mention the other 2 people was they knew the other 2 were not part of this and they didn't want to publicly bring them into their story.

That's the only thing I can guess as to why they did not mention them.
Because if they really did not know what happened then surely parents would freely explain who all was there at the time and let the chips fall where they may.

They knew the other 2 were not involved IMO and that is why they didn't want to bring them into their story.

All JMO

 

[12madelyn]

I don't think they really loved DeOrr at all.

If you love your child and he goes missing, you don't get a beauty make-over. Cut, highlighted hair, dramatic eye make-up, diamond stud in her face. She never looked better. she should have a kid go missing more often. And sitting there crying only for herself cuz people threaten her. Give me a break.

 

[12madelyn]

IMHO, I do believe that VDK and JM are guilty of panicking, hiding a body, and misleading LE and the public. That being said, I think that little Deorr Perished accidentally, either in a hot car

Based on where they were, in an isolated spot and with someone always close by, there would be no reason to close the doors and windows of the vehicle. They could have left all the doors open with him sleeping. Still maybe very hot but not lethal.

 

[neesaki]

You know what their fake crying make me think of? Mick Philpott and his girlfriend, who burned 6 of their children to death and then gave a press conference pleading for information on the arsonist. They were out partying soon after the deaths, and tried to make money from the public too.

The police didn't buy it for a minute, although they pretended to whilst they gather evidence.

http://m.digitaljournal.com/article/347070

Omg, it's almost a mirror image, sickening. :scared:

ETA: That last one really says it all doesn't it.

 

[desert-blue]

Based on where they were, in an isolated spot and with someone always close by, there would be no reason to close the doors and windows of the vehicle. They could have left all the doors open with him sleeping. Still maybe very hot but not lethal.

The only reason I can think of would be if the bugs or mosquitoes were bad? However, I think that whatever happened to DeOrr was the result of something much more neglectful. Something that would make them look like really really bad parents. So bad they can't bring themselves to admit what happened. Sadly, kids die in hot cars too frequently, but it's not something that would be worth 8 months of lying and cover-up, IMO.

 

[kammiemc]

I don't claim to have a clue what happened, but I tend to guess accidental death. I can't wrap my head around a pre-planned abduction scenario for a few reasons. But for anyone who can, if JM or they both gave DeOrr away and he's out there, what do you make of the parents pushing that he was abducted and that people should be looking for him. You'd think they would worry that someone looking might see him and the gig would be up! They are the only ones who haven't ruled out abduction. You'd think instead they would be saying he must have wandered and succumbed to the elements so that people wouldn't be on alert to look for him. .


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[Hatfield]

I don't claim to have a clue what happened, but I tend to guess accidental death. I can't wrap my head around a pre-planned abduction scenario for a few reasons. But for anyone who can, if JM or they both gave DeOrr away and he's out there, what do you make of the parents pushing that he was abducted and that people should be looking for him. You'd think they would worry that someone looking might see him and the gig would be up! They are the only ones who haven't ruled out abduction. You'd think instead they would be saying he must have wandered and succumbed to the elements so that people wouldn't be on alert to look for him. .


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Yeah, the give child away theory has a couple issues with it like you mentioned.


For one, it would mean that whoever has the boy would also be involved in illegal adoption at a minimum. So it assumes that one or two other people would be willing to go along with criminal activity.

Secondly like you mention it would mean that whoever has the boy would have to be in a very hidden place where nobody would recognize the boy.
Which is why if he was given to someone then that person or persons would have to be far away IMO. Canada was mentioned in an article I referenced. If there was another person that has the boy I am thinking Canada is the likely area the person would be.

But as far as someone else having the boy I struggle with someone willing to go along with this. How would they have met anyone willing to go along with this. And where did they meet them. Maybe someone VDK met trucking.

Does anyone know if he did any trucking across the border or was it just in US?

 

[mommylicious]

A lot of things the parents say in the interview struck me as things they think people in their position would say - buying the nuggets, looking for him in the store, last memory fading, etc. There were a couple of others but I'm at work and not able to pull up the video right now. It's like a poorly written movie full of clichés. Mom's blasé way of talking about how people have accepted that he's dead and moved on is concerning.

 

[sonjay]

I don't claim to have a clue what happened, but I tend to guess accidental death. I can't wrap my head around a pre-planned abduction scenario for a few reasons. But for anyone who can, if JM or they both gave DeOrr away and he's out there, what do you make of the parents pushing that he was abducted and that people should be looking for him. You'd think they would worry that someone looking might see him and the gig would be up! They are the only ones who haven't ruled out abduction. You'd think instead they would be saying he must have wandered and succumbed to the elements so that people wouldn't be on alert to look for him. .

BBM. Maybe it's just me, but I'm not sure exactly what anyone on this thread means by "accidental." As I see it, there are at least two profoundly different types of "accidental death" possible:

1. An honest-to-god accident. Maybe accompanied by neglect, maybe not. The little boy fell into the water and drowned. Was run over by the truck in the dark. Wandered up behind someone swinging an axe and got clocked. Absolutely nothing intentional was done to the child.

2. "Discipline" or "punishment" that went too far and "accidentally" resulted in his death. He had a potty-training accident and what started out as a spanking ended in his death. He was misbehaving and was put in the truck for punishment, then died from hyperthermia. Yeah, it was an accident in that they didn't intend to kill him, but they did deliberately engage in conduct that resulted in his death.

If it was accident type #1, there's no reason that I can see for them to engage in this massive cover-up and web of lies. They should have been heartbroken and they should have called 911 the instant it happened. What loving parent doesn't call 911 the instant a serious accident happens to their child?

If it was accident type #2, I wouldn't even call that an accident. Legally, it would probably be some form of manslaughter, IMO. Voluntary or involuntary, I dunno. I could see parents lying and covering up if it was this kind of accident.

Myself, I completely reject the possibility of it being a true accident. I do consider it possible that it was a result of "punishment taken too far."

 

[desert-blue]

Rayemonde, your photos also remind me of this couple that lied and covered-up the death of the mom's son, Robert Manwill, in Boise in 2009. They reported him missing and there were massive searches for days. The couple helped with the searches, wore "Find Robert" t-shirts, and stood up at the press conferences crying about the missing child. Their charade lasted less than two weeks, however, because his body was found floating in a canal (with rocks in his pockets). His death was the result of the boyfriend's "punishments" and the mom kept quiet. Very sad case. :-(

source: http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/special-reports/article40697877.html

 

[Hatfield]

BBM. Maybe it's just me, but I'm not sure exactly what anyone on this thread means by "accidental." As I see it, there are at least two profoundly different types of "accidental death" possible:

1. An honest-to-god accident. Maybe accompanied by neglect, maybe not. The little boy fell into the water and drowned. Was run over by the truck in the dark. Wandered up behind someone swinging an axe and got clocked. Absolutely nothing intentional was done to the child.

2. "Discipline" or "punishment" that went too far and "accidentally" resulted in his death. He had a potty-training accident and what started out as a spanking ended in his death. He was misbehaving and was put in the truck for punishment, then died from hyperthermia. Yeah, it was an accident in that they didn't intend to kill him, but they did deliberately engage in conduct that resulted in his death.

If it was accident type #1, there's no reason that I can see for them to engage in this massive cover-up and web of lies. They should have been heartbroken and they should have called 911 the instant it happened. What loving parent doesn't call 911 the instant a serious accident happens to their child?

If it was accident type #2, I wouldn't even call that an accident. Legally, it would probably be some form of manslaughter, IMO. Voluntary or involuntary, I dunno. I could see parents lying and covering up if it was this kind of accident.

Myself, I completely reject the possibility of it being a true accident. I do consider it possible that it was a result of "punishment taken too far."

I agree.

Because if it was a real accident then they really would have called 911 and there would be a boy present right in front of them.

If the boy died and they know what happened then they feel culpable in his death for some reason. I can see many possibles for this and one of them is no accident at all. They could have done something to the boy on purpose.
If flat out murder did not happen then some other manslaughter type accident is in order. Some sort of terrible negligence happened. Like drunk and ran over the boy or any number of other possibles including over medicating or leaving boy in car with either too hot or too cold at night.
Its hard to keep referring to this as an accident if they were culpable in any way and is hiding his death. I think it is just easier for us to think that way to be nice but it would mean they are criminally negligent at a minimum and also hiding a corpse at a minimum.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I thought "I'm like crazy mom in the supermarket" was really weird to say. So Jessica, mothers like Beth Holloway or Patty Wetterling are "crazy" because they will never stop looking for their children? I just don't see how looking at every child you see out in public when your child is missing makes you crazy. It sounds like Jessica cannot emphasize with mothers of missing children. It just bothered me that she would describe something like that as being "crazy". If the mother of a missing child was physically grabbing kids and accusing them of being her son and daughter, I would find them extremely sad and you would see the clear toll that her child's disappearance has had on her her. But I feel like using the word "crazy" to describe the actions of the mother of a missing child to be really offensive.

 

[kammiemc]

BBM. Maybe it's just me, but I'm not sure exactly what anyone on this thread means by "accidental." As I see it, there are at least two profoundly different types of "accidental death" possible:

1. An honest-to-god accident. Maybe accompanied by neglect, maybe not. The little boy fell into the water and drowned. Was run over by the truck in the dark. Wandered up behind someone swinging an axe and got clocked. Absolutely nothing intentional was done to the child.

2. "Discipline" or "punishment" that went too far and "accidentally" resulted in his death. He had a potty-training accident and what started out as a spanking ended in his death. He was misbehaving and was put in the truck for punishment, then died from hyperthermia. Yeah, it was an accident in that they didn't intend to kill him, but they did deliberately engage in conduct that resulted in his death.

If it was accident type #1, there's no reason that I can see for them to engage in this massive cover-up and web of lies. They should have been heartbroken and they should have called 911 the instant it happened. What loving parent doesn't call 911 the instant a serious accident happens to their child?

If it was accident type #2, I wouldn't even call that an accident. Legally, it would probably be some form of manslaughter, IMO. Voluntary or involuntary, I dunno. I could see parents lying and covering up if it was this kind of accident.

Myself, I completely reject the possibility of it being a true accident. I do consider it possible that it was a result of "punishment taken too far."

You make really good points. I agree in that, if it were an accident, whatever caused it must have been legally and morally worse than lying about it for eight months. Must have been pretty bad. Accident can mean different things. I guess the big distinction I make in my mind is between accident and premeditated murder. Did they plan the trip to disappear him? I dunno but I hope not. Any forms of an accident seems slightly less sinister.


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[MBK]

A lot of things the parents say in the interview struck me as things they think people in their position would say - buying the nuggets, looking for him in the store, last memory fading, etc. There were a couple of others but I'm at work and not able to pull up the video right now. It's like a poorly written movie full of clichés. Mom's blasé way of talking about how people have accepted that he's dead and moved on is concerning.

I don't think there's a single person posting or reading here who would NOT do something if they thought they saw "Deorr". I don't think he was abducted, I don't think he was adopted out, and I believe he is dead, but if I thought I SAW him anywhere, I'd take a photo, phone the cops, grab a license plate number, etc., etc. I haven't moved on because of my belief that he's dead. . . none of us have.

 

[kammiemc]

I thought "I'm like crazy mom in the supermarket" was really weird to say. So Jessica, mothers like Beth Holloway or Patty Wetterling are "crazy" because they will never stop looking for their children? I just don't see how looking at every child you see out in public when your child is missing makes you crazy. It sounds like Jessica cannot emphasize with mothers of missing children. It just bothered me that she would describe something like that as being "crazy". If the mother of a missing child was physically grabbing kids and accusing them of being her son and daughter, I would find them extremely sad and you would see the clear toll that her child's disappearance has had on her her. But I feel like using the word "crazy" to describe the actions of the mother of a missing child to be really offensive.

She acted like someone who was jokingly calling herself a helicopter mom or something. There was a casualness that is completely at odds with having a missing child. I hope she wasn't expecting a lighthearted giggle from the audience, "Oh, you silly grieving mom!"


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