ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #26

[LietKynes]

Marking my spot.

If necessary I'll gladly figuratively 'eat crow'...have done so before and may have to resort to it again. But I feel out of the four --four of them know something and are keeping quiet for whatever reason ; and if so -- it is infuriating to me, and so disrespectful to an innocent child who should even now be loved and cared for, and not left out somewhere like trash --if that's what has happened.

Of major interest imo are the 911 calls that aren't being released ...and any other info that le and the pi's have and are keeping under their vest. Kudos to them for their persistence and discretion !
There are times I start thinking they are pursuing a different angle than the one which would seem obvious ; but it's still disgusting behavior for the parents to worry more about what's being said about them on sm than the fact their child is missing and possibly presumed dead.
:moo:

 

[cantkeepquietanymore]

Marking my spot.

If necessary I'll gladly figuratively 'eat crow'...have done so before and may have to resort to it again. But I feel out of the four --four of them know something and are keeping quiet for whatever reason ; and if so -- it is infuriating to me, and so disrespectful to an innocent child who should even now be loved and cared for, and not left out somewhere like trash --if that's what has happened.

Of major interest imo are the 911 calls that aren't being released ...and any other info that le and the pi's have and are keeping under their vest. Kudos to them for their persistence and discretion !
There are times I start thinking they are pursuing a different angle than the one which would seem obvious ; but it's still disgusting behavior for the parents to worry more about what's being said about them on sm than the fact their child is missing and possibly presumed dead.
:moo:

Absolutely can't argue with you there. No matter who did what, hiding what happened is equally as bad. My little guy is the exact age as Deorr when he went missing, and there's not a person on this planet that I would cover for if something should happen to him. It's not comprehensible to me.

 

[Butler]

Does anyone know what trucking company VDK drives for and where he parks his rig when not on the road?

I don't recall it ever being mentioned. If he drives for a trucking company over the road (long haul) it would be parked in a company lot when he's home. For some reason it seems he may be a local driver and is home daily but that is an assumption on my part. The truckers I know who are long haul tend to be gone 2-3 weeks at a time and come home on varied days. I remember a comment he called in sick to work to be able to go up to Timber Creek on Thursday. Not sure if that was a rumor or fact but it leads me to believe he drives locally.

And with all that rambling I guess it doesn't really answer your question. I can only assume his truck would be parked in a company lot.

 

[giagreen]

BBM - I agree with you on this. I doubt IR would cover for two people he didn't know regardless of how close he was to GGP.

In addition I just listened to the 911 tape again and I hear real fear in her voice. Not fear as in "I've done something to my son and need an alibi" but "We've looked and can't find him" fear. I know people are caught up on VDK's use of the word "hauled" in his interview but it's just not the big deal many think it is. There are still areas, large areas of Idaho where cell service is spotty. When I lived in Eastern Idaho we would spend weekends camping in an area very similar, in geography and location, to Timber Creek. We had zero cell service at our camp site, but if we "hauled" down the road we could find service. It's possible he & JM had service with different carriers. I know my cell service carrier has better coverage than others.

I think it's significant there are three calls to 911, it's significant what is said on the two calls that weren't released, but it's not significant that VDK "hauled" down the road to make one of the calls.

Klein's statements about the 911 calls are one of the things that make me doubt him. We know when JM called because it's time stamped but Klein still gets the order of the calls wrong.

Klein also talks of dogs hitting on evidence but it is just a teaser, he doesn't give enough information to make it credible, only enough to make it frightening. We know these weren't Klein's dogs so he either got the information from a secondary source or he is making assumptions.

Just my opinion.

My parents live down a long dirt road in the middle of no where. I don't get service there. In fact I hardly get service anywhere in that county. I'd of been suprised if they had reliable service at the camp site. If an emergency happened at my parents I'd haul up the drive way trying to get service even though if you sit and try hard enough at the house you might get it. I don't find it weird at all.

I haven't even considered the word "hauled" at all.
It's not suspicious at all. Especially if your a trucker or live in rural areas. IMHO it means nothing.

And I have always heard that fear in JM vouce that you hear also. It's there. It's real. I can hear it. I've also seen love between her and VDK. I've seen JM with a red running nose (something you can't fake) looking like she'd been crying for a week straight with her face buried in VDK arm. It was real imo. I personally have not seen any red flags. The only red flag I've seen is SB saying they are suspects.

And it's very possible that VDK and JM had diffrent carriers. My bf is a trucker. We have diffrent carriers because with him being on the road he needed something with better roaming options.



Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Nope. No despair. I imagine she'd show despair and other emotions if she lost her iphone but her son fails to stir much. I think JM cares about JM and little else.

I think, you are right.

 

[jennapuppy]

.

Here is a theory that would make the most sense.

Grandfather decides to move the Suburban or camper trailer a bit .... re-position it in a better spot around the campfire because they were expecting additional family to arrive later with their own tents or campers .

He was aware the the boy was around , but when he checked his mirrors and glanced outside the boy was no longer there , assumed he had gone down to the parents , and did not realize he had driven over , or parked on top of him.

The parents DID go exploring like they said ..... Grandfather DID know the boy was around the campsite ..... Grandfather DID look away for a few seconds and the child was gone ...... and when the parents came back the boy WAS MISSING like they said ... and Grandfather WAS genuinely shocked to hear the boy was not with them.

And the three of them DID do a frantic search and could not find the boy until they regrouped at the campsite and spotted him underneath the vehicle or the camper trailer.

That would also explain the blood or fluid residue the cadaver dogs alerted to on "equipment"

I think they are being truthful about all those things but they become untruthful after that and decided to cover it up for some reason. Issac is off fishing and unaware of what happened. Grandfather can rightly claim he did not do anything (he did not realize he did it) ... parents can rightly claim they did not do it ... there were no witnesses , and there was no crime until the cover-up began


(From the PI article)
“We believe it is important for the public to know that the cadaver dog did hit in three certain areas of the pieces of equipment which does indicate there was a death or there was some type of fluid, cerebral fluid, blood whatever it may be, that was in the location where the dog hit, and that we know there was a death,”
http://m.localnews8.com/news/private-investigator-cadaver-dog-proves-there-was-a-death/38307992

Arnie-

Your theory is similar to mine, only in my theory the accident happened Thurs. night when they were setting up camp after dark. After a long car ride, little Deorr probably wanted to run around and, with the only light coming from headlights or Coleman lanterns, it would have been hard to see him. Maybe JM was supposed to watch him while the men set up the camper, but she was too busy on her phone to notice what Deorr was doing. It's possible that little Deorr suffered a head injury that wasn't immediately fatal and when they woke up and realized that Deorr had died during the night, they immediately went into cover-up mode. The parents are covering up the fact that the accident occurred because they weren't watching him closely and then failed to seek immediate medical attention, and GGP is covering it up because he was driving the vehicle that struck Deorr and he doesn't want his license taken away.

My other theory is that Deorr couldn't sleep that night because he'd had a long nap in the car, and the parents got frustrated and.......

I prefer the first theory, though, because it means that Deorr died as a result of everyone's carelessness and poor judgment and nothing more.
IMO

 

[kammiemc]

My parents live down a long dirt road in the middle of no where. I don't get service there. In fact I hardly get service anywhere in that county. I'd of been suprised if they had reliable service at the camp site. If an emergency happened at my parents I'd haul up the drive way trying to get service even though if you sit and try hard enough at the house you might get it. I don't find it weird at all.

I haven't even considered the word "hauled" at all.
It's not suspicious at all. Especially if your a trucker or live in rural areas. IMHO it means nothing.

And I have always heard that fear in JM vouce that you hear also. It's there. It's real. I can hear it. I've also seen love between her and VDK. I've seen JM with a red running nose (something you can't fake) looking like she'd been crying for a week straight with her face buried in VDK arm. It was real imo. I personally have not seen any red flags. The only red flag I've seen is SB saying they are suspects.

And it's very possible that VDK and JM had diffrent carriers. My bf is a trucker. We have diffrent carriers because with him being on the road he needed something with better roaming options.



Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

I don't think there is anything inherently weird about the word hauling or even hauling down the road to get a signal if a signal couldn't be had at the campsite.

I think the only things suspicious about DK's hauling down the road have more to do with looking at it through the lens that he has been lying about knowing what happened to his son and where he is (assuming that LE and FBI are correct about that).

So, when you think about it that way it does seem like he might have been lying that he hauled (the word implies a sense of urgency) down the road to report his son missing if he actually knew what happened.

Also seems that it was a sensitive point for him to explain since he seemed sooooo fixated on explaining it over and over again the first interview.

Apparently, people COULD get a signal at the campsite. So one starts thinking he could be fibbing about that. He also made a big deal out of the fact that JM got a signal. He felt blessed. Ok, DK!

Since the suspects (if LE/FBI are correct) do know where DeOrr is (presumably they put him there) then there had to be some method of transporting him from the campsite to that final place. That could have been on foot. But if not, the truck would make perfect sense. Someone would have to have driven the truck away with DeOrr in it and then returned without him.

That person might need an excuse to drive away if he wanted others at the campsite not to suspect anything. Hauling down the road to get a signal might seem like a good excuse.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[giagreen]

I don't think there is anything inherently weird about the word hauling or even hauling down the road to get a signal if a signal couldn't be had at the campsite.

I think the only things suspicious about DK's hauling down the road have more to do with looking at it through the lens that he has been lying about knowing what happened to his son and where he is (assuming that LE and FBI are correct about that).

So, when you think about it that way it does seem like he might have been lying that he hauled (the word implies a sense of urgency) down the road to report his son missing if he actually knew what happened.

Also seems that it was a sensitive point for him to explain since he seemed sooooo fixated on explaining it over and over again the first interview.

Apparently, people COULD get a signal at the campsite. So one starts thinking he could be fibbing about that. He also made a big deal out of the fact that JM got a signal. He felt blessed. Ok, DK!

Since the suspects (if you LE/FBI are correct) do know where DeOrr is (presumably they put him there) then there had to be some method of transporting him from the campsite to that final place. That could have been on foot. But if not, the truck would make perfect sense. Someone would have to have driven the truck away with DeOrr in it and then returned without him.

That person might need an excuse to drive away if he wanted others at the campsite not to suspect anything. Hauling down the road to get a signal might seem like a good excuse.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To me it doesn't really matter if he is telling whoppers or the truth the word "hauled" is a very used word by many all the time. It's been read into a bit much. And hasn't helped find DeOrr yet.


Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

 

[kammiemc]

Arnie-

Your theory is similar to mine, only in my theory the accident happened Thurs. night when they were setting up camp after dark. After a long car ride, little Deorr probably wanted to run around and, with the only light coming from headlights or Coleman lanterns, it would have been hard to see him. Maybe JM was supposed to watch him while the men set up the camper, but she was too busy on her phone to notice what Deorr was doing. It's possible that little Deorr suffered a head injury that wasn't immediately fatal and when they woke up and realized that Deorr had died during the night, they immediately went into cover-up mode. The parents are covering up the fact that the accident occurred because they weren't watching him closely and then failed to seek immediate medical attention, and GGP is covering it up because he was driving the vehicle that struck Deorr and he doesn't want his license taken away.

My other theory is that Deorr couldn't sleep that night because he'd had a long nap in the car, and the parents got frustrated and.......

I prefer the first theory, though, because it means that Deorr died as a result of everyone's carelessness and poor judgment and nothing more.
IMO

I think Thurs night seems like a possibility too. Especially if there was any drinking done. I'm thinking if the blood on the truck's bumper and fender was DeOrr's then it was likely DK moving the truck, not someone else. That would also explain why they might resist calling for help immediately.

In that situation (if drinks had been had) there would have likely been serious charges. And no more trucking.

They would find themselves in a bit of pickle, because the longer they waited to call after he died, the more obvious it would be that he has been deceased for awhile before calling for help.

I could see how that situation could lead to them fabricating DeOrr's disappearance.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Butler]

I think Thurs night seems like a possibility too. Especially if there was any drinking done. I'm thinking if the blood on the truck's bumper and fender was DeOrr's then it was likely DK moving the truck, not someone else. That would also explain why they might resist calling for help immediately.

In that situation (if drinks had been had) there would have likely been serious charges. And no more trucking.

They would find themselves in a bit of pickle, because the longer they waited to call after he died, the more obvious it would be that he has been deceased for awhile before calling for help.

I could see how that situation could lead to them fabricating DeOrr's disappearance.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But don't you think that if there was blood on the bumper, and if that blood was tested by LE, and if tested found to be human, and if found to be human blood was tested and found to be little DeOrr's, there would have been a resolution to this case? If the above is true it seems LE would be pushing the parents more for answers. The blood of your missing child on the bumper of your truck would be very difficult to explain.

 

[kammiemc]

To me it doesn't really matter if he is telling whoppers or the truth the word "hauled" is a very used word by many all the time. It's been read into a bit much. And hasn't helped find DeOrr yet.


Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

Yeah, my brother was a truck driver and my whole family lives in the country not so so far from Leadore. The word "hauling" doesn't seem like an unusual word to me. I think he DID use it in a whopper of a lie so if anything, it's just him exaggerating for emphasis about just how urgently he was going for that signal. Like he tends to do--be overly emphatic about some things. Maybe that's why the word has stood out for some people.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

But don't you think that if there was blood on the bumper, and if that blood was tested by LE, and if tested found to be human, and if found to be human blood was tested and found to be little DeOrr's, there would have been a resolution to this case? If the above is true it seems LE would be pushing the parents more for answers. The blood of your missing child on the bumper of your truck would be very difficult to explain.

Maybe they have been confronted with that but still proclaim their innocence/ignorance. LE can't strap them down and give them truth serum.

 

[Purplepixii]

I think Thurs night seems like a possibility too. Especially if there was any drinking done. I'm thinking if the blood on the truck's bumper and fender was DeOrr's then it was likely DK moving the truck, not someone else. That would also explain why they might resist calling for help immediately.

In that situation (if drinks had been had) there would have likely been serious charges. And no more trucking.

They would find themselves in a bit of pickle, because the longer they waited to call after he died, the more obvious it would be that he has been deceased for awhile before calling for help.

I could see how that situation could lead to them fabricating DeOrr's disappearance.

This is similar to a theory I have, only I put the mysterious GGPA (we STILL haven't heard from him) at the wheel repositioning the vehicle - to me he's the 1 person all 3 would lie for.

 

[Purplepixii]

But don't you think that if there was blood on the bumper, and if that blood was tested by LE, and if tested found to be human, and if found to be human blood was tested and found to be little DeOrr's, there would have been a resolution to this case? If the above is true it seems LE would be pushing the parents more for answers. The blood of your missing child on the bumper of your truck would be very difficult to explain.

No, I don't think there would have been a resolution by now based on that blood evidence because LE would still have to determine who was at the wheel at the time of the incident. Moo

 

[kammiemc]

But don't you think that if there was blood on the bumper, and if that blood was tested by LE, and if tested found to be human, and if found to be human blood was tested and found to be little DeOrr's, there would have been a resolution to this case? If the above is true it seems LE would be pushing the parents more for answers. The blood of your missing child on the bumper of your truck would be very difficult to explain.

I can see why you would say that, but, No, I don't assume that the case would be resolved if the blood were DeOrr's. So I don't dismiss that it very well could be.

There is no question that prosecution is complicated. I think they ARE working to resolve this case right now and HAVE been trying to get the parents to tell them where DeOrr is. SB could not be any clearer. They know what happened and where he is. They can't stop lying about it. Yet they are not arrested.

I wish I could see the inner workings of the investigation. And of course we all wish it would go at turbo speed. But I trust SB that he is not rushing this so that they can get it right, for all the logical reasons he had stated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CoverMeCagney]

This is similar to a theory I have, only I put the mysterious GGPA (we STILL haven't heard from him) at the wheel repositioning the vehicle - to me he's the 1 person all 3 would lie for.

It could even have happened with any driver at the Silver Dollar, I wonder if the car park there was checked for evidence.

Nobody would want to call the police if a) they were drink driving, or b) they thought DeOrr would be ok the next day. Except he wasn't and so a tangled web had to be woven.

 

[LietKynes]

I think Thurs night seems like a possibility too. Especially if there was any drinking done. I'm thinking if the blood on the truck's bumper and fender was DeOrr's then it was likely DK moving the truck, not someone else. That would also explain why they might resist calling for help immediately.

In that situation (if drinks had been had) there would have likely been serious charges. And no more trucking.

They would find themselves in a bit of pickle, because the longer they waited to call after he died, the more obvious it would be that he has been deceased for awhile before calling for help.

I could see how that situation could lead to them fabricating DeOrr's disappearance.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SABBM

Agreed and very well said !

And finally I think we might have a motive for the "less than truthful" , or outright lying from JM and DK.

It's been puzzling that if an accident happened-- why lie ?
Why not just say-- we were drinking or otherwise indulging , and went to move the truck and ran over our child accidentally....?

Was this obfuscation of the incident due to the fear of possible job loss , or someone temporarily losing their driver's license ?
Who knows ?

Please tell me that this is wrong or completely out in left field : that--to some -- possible fear of lost wages might be more important than your little one going missing or maybe deceased.

:moo:

 

[CoverMeCagney]

But don't you think that if there was blood on the bumper, and if that blood was tested by LE, and if tested found to be human, and if found to be human blood was tested and found to be little DeOrr's, there would have been a resolution to this case? If the above is true it seems LE would be pushing the parents more for answers. The blood of your missing child on the bumper of your truck would be very difficult to explain.

The thing I have learned from this case is that US police are slow and steady to make arrests, they want to be certain they have a good prosecution case. Very different and much more serious than in the UK where these parents would have already been arrested on suspicion of murder and interrogated (and possibly released).

All this "we know they know what happened and where he is, and they know we know" (paraphrased SB)... and .... "we know how he died but not why he died" (Klein) might marry up quite nicely to the blood on the bumper stuff if you think about it.

If indeed there IS some bumper evidence (I think the terms used were cerebral fluid and rear fender) then the police watching and waiting for clearer evidence, such as a body or confession, would make sense. They'd want that info before making an arrest, they want to get it right.

Just my opinion.

 

[kammiemc]

SABBM

Agreed and very well said !

And finally I think we might have a motive for the "less than truthful" , or outright lying from JM and DK.

It's been puzzling that if an accident happened-- why lie ?
Why not just say-- we were drinking or otherwise indulging , and went to move the truck and ran over our child accidentally....?

Was this obfuscation of the incident due to the fear of possible job loss , or someone temporarily losing their driver's license ?
Who knows ?

Please tell me that this is wrong or completely out in left field : that--to some -- possible fear of lost wages might be more important than your little one going missing or maybe deceased.

:moo:

I think if someone ran over their child resulting in his death, while intoxicated, it would be way more than a temp loss of license. I think it would be very serious. Like possibly manslaughter or something. Jail. No more job. It would all be over. To me, those circumstances would explain why they might cover up his death. Believe me, I am not in any way justifying. But I can imagine the panic, the fear, the impaired judgment, the confusion all culminating in the terrible decision to wait. Which would have put them in a bind. Maybe the best way they saw out of it was to cover. At that point, what would they have to lose. Either way, they'd be going down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kammiemc]

This is similar to a theory I have, only I put the mysterious GGPA (we STILL haven't heard from him) at the wheel repositioning the vehicle - to me he's the 1 person all 3 would lie for.

It's possible, but I dunno, I just can't see DK covering for an extended family member of JM's. Especially when the blame is being placed on DK instead.

Would he sacrifice his own welfare and his own future just so an older man who is not in his family wouldn't get in trouble for killing his own son? That seems very generous and would demonstrate an unexplainable level of loyalty. Maybe it would help to know if sacrificing for others is part of DK's make up or if his commitment to being loyal to certain people with whom he has strong relationships (did these guys have a bond?) has stood out to those who know him. Has he lied for other people to protect them?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk