ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #26

[DexterMorgan]

They supposably all three go down to a fishing spot. According to SB they all three have said this. Then in the last interview SB did with Tricia and Bessie he clears up the three hour time frame.
I'll go get the link but what SB basically said is that there is three hours from the time they notice DeOrr missing till LE and s&r arived.

So that gives anyone really three hours to hide DeOrr.

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Ok. But dad flying solo on a search is one thing. But wouldn't mom have I.R go with her.

Did they all split up and leave ggp sitting there?

Now if ggp says he went that way. Wouldnt everyone search that way.

Now dad was driving down a road while mom was up on hill calling 911.

Btw. SB knew I.R was somewhat special. So wouldn't the parents know this too and keep him in their sight?

 

[jennapuppy]

Agree 100% with your last sentence. That fact has always left me scratching my head. :thinking:

VDK has SORT OF started to throw GGP under the bus by saying, "...you leave your child with a trusted adult..." but that's it. He never goes any further. He's actually said it at least 3 times that I'm aware of. The first time was in the first interview with Nate, the second time was at the first candlelight vigil where he speaks to the attendees via microphone (I believe EIN aired it), and the third time was in the latest interview he and JM gave with Chelsea from Local 8 news.

After posting my initial theory, I agree with the posters who said that VDK was probably the one driving if DeOrr was hit with the car. I still think that he asked JM to watch DeOrr while he moved the car, but she had her nose in her phone and wasn't really watching closely. (My grandson just turned 3 this week, and my daughter doesn't watch him as closely as I think she should because she's always distracted by her phone, so I can see how it could be a point of contention). In that case, his repeated references to the "trusted adult" is a reminder to her that the accident wouldn't have happened if she had been watching DeOrr as he asked. Those 2 haven't turned on each other because they both feel some responsibility for the accident.

When it comes to GGF, maybe he hasn't turned on them because they're family, or maybe it's because JM is his caretaker and he's afraid to cross her.

As for IR, he doesn't really know what happened or who's responsible.
IMO

 

[giagreen]

Ok. But dad flying solo on a search is one thing. But wouldn't mom have I.R go with her.

Did they all split up and leave ggp sitting there?

Now if ggp says he went that way. Wouldnt everyone search that way.

Now dad was driving down a road while mom was up on hill calling 911.

Btw. SB knew I.R was somewhat special. So wouldn't the parents know this too and keep him in their sight?

I'd love to have the answers to those questions.
Now that I think about it. I don't think any of them have actually commented on the specifics of what they did for those three hours.

I've seen a few rummors but that's about it.



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[DexterMorgan]

Imo. If the search dogs didn't keep coming back to mom; Then those search dogs are not worth much at all. Jmo.

She handles his clothes and belongings on a daily basis. So her scent would have been on all search items that she handed over that day or so.

Also. The freshest scent would be in the car. So if dogs are searching by scent. They would go straight to mom or car or dad.

Jmo

 

[LietKynes]

The biggest issue with the accident theory is : Why cover it up ?
If DeOrr Jr. was accidentally struck by an axe, or run over by a vehicle, or if he fell and hit his head on a rock --- why hide his body ? His body is not in the original camping area or the dogs would have located it. So it would appear his body was possibly placed elsewhere.

None of the four have stated or even hinted his body was hidden -- but he would've been there if there was nothing to be covered up.

And if he wandered off, again the dogs should have picked up some scent.
It's going to be sad if this case goes cold.
IMO

 

[DexterMorgan]

In all honesty. I have nothing against special minded people such as I.R.

But if my child went missing on a family trip and you are the new guy with a different mind set. I would probably blame you first; Especially if we are the only ones there.

So imo. The parents didn't jump down I.R throat because they know something. Jmo.

 

[Ekkwhine]

That's my thinking DexterMorgan, my instinct would be to be question 'well, what do we really know about him? He's not a close or personal friend of ours'

I'm not saying, or even hinting that I think he's guilty, far from it, but if something, God forbid, happened to one of my children and we were with family and someone we didn't know well, if it was established something innocent like the child wandering away happened then I would, rightly or wrongly, be suspicious of that person and want them investigated to the hilt. I suffer from anxiety and ocd though and can spend hours obsessing over possible situations, so my views can be somewhat clouded, I'm glad to read I'm not the only one that would think that in this scenario.

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[DexterMorgan]

Question. Should the family (at this point) sue Klein if they are truly innocent?

And if they don't sue; Does this means that they are guilty and keeping hush?

 

[giagreen]

Question. Should the family (at this point) sue Klein if they are truly innocent?

And if they don't sue; Does this means that they are guilty and keeping hush?

I think I probably would if I was innocent.


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[Paulas88]

The biggest issue with the accident theory is : Why cover it up ?
If DeOrr Jr. was accidentally struck by an axe, or run over by a vehicle, or if he fell and hit his head on a rock --- why hide his body ? His body is not in the original camping area or the dogs would have located it. So it would appear his body was possibly placed elsewhere.

None of the four have stated or even hinted his body was hidden -- but he would've been there if there was nothing to be covered up.

And if he wandered off, again the dogs should have picked up some scent.
It's going to be sad if this case goes cold.
IMO

The more the parents have tried to moot DeOrr's disappearance, the bigger it's gotten. IMO, the LE will attempt (maybe with new ping evidence) to locate DeOrr's body, if he isn't found, I 100% believe this case will go to trial without a body. We already know what JM/VK' defence will be... That DeOrr could've (reasonable doubt) been abducted. A good prosecutor will shoot that down... Nope... much to the parents dismay, this is not going away.

 

[Mickshawn]

Imo. If the search dogs didn't keep coming back to mom; Then those search dogs are not worth much at all. Jmo.

She handles his clothes and belongings on a daily basis. So her scent would have been on all search items that she handed over that day or so.

Also. The freshest scent would be in the car. So if dogs are searching by scent. They would go straight to mom or car or dad.

Jmo

I'm still not convinced DeOrr was ever even on this camping trip.

 

[Beezneez]

Enjoyed a sunny day here in Idaho. I'm at a slightly lower elevation, but my dogs got out & dug up some old tulip bulbs from my flowerbeds. Spring is going to be here soon.

 

[Rayemonde]

Agree 100% with your last sentence. That fact has always left me scratching my head. :thinking:

VDK has SORT OF started to throw GGP under the bus by saying, "...you leave your child with a trusted adult..." but that's it. He never goes any further. He's actually said it at least 3 times that I'm aware of. The first time was in the first interview with Nate, the second time was at the first candlelight vigil where he speaks to the attendees via microphone (I believe EIN aired it), and the third time was in the latest interview he and JM gave with Chelsea from Local 8 news.

And that's just what he's said in the media, with the whole world watching... I think we'll be surprised at what they've been saying in their police interviews, when it all comes out. I bet there's been a *lot* of throwing people under the bus that we don't know about.

 

[Hoosier952]

My opinion of IR has been unchanged since the beginning. I think he's innocent. Wrong place, wrong time. I do think it's possible he might cover for someone or relay information given, but I don't think he would cover if he knew for certain what happened.

I do wonder why he suddenly chose to talk to Klein and do the interview and drop his attorney. What made him feel safe enough to do so? He hasn't been a named suspect, he's been consistent with LE, what changed? It was quite a while after JM and VK were named suspects. Klein had already ruled out kidnapping or animal attack well beforehand, but chastised IR for not speaking with him. His attorney would have likely prevented him from talking with LE or Klein, but he still had his attorney when he did the interview and I think when he talked to Klein. I would think any attorney with half a brain would prevent their client from talking with a PI for any reason. Especially a PI "hired" by the family of the suspects. If I recall, the only thing I can think of that was happening around this time was Klein mentioning some other evidence being sent out for testing. Did something come back to completely rule out IR's involvement? I'm just having a really hard time grasping why someone would pay an attorney and keep that attorney for 8+ months and then let that attorney go before this came to a resolution.

If LE were to offer IR some type of immunity, would this have to be documented legally? Or could it be more of an off the record informal oral agreement? Did a piece of evidence come back with information that jogged IR's memory? Like maybe a phone call made by someone or someone doing a bit of truck cleaning? Was he irritated he hadn't spoken with GGP, his friend, all winter and decided to speak out? I'm thinking there is some pretty hard evidence that points directly at someone(s) other than IR.

If I had to guess, there will be some pretty intense searching going on as soon as it's thawed and there will be arrests made shortly after those searches whether or not Deorr is found.

 

[kammiemc]

This contradicts what Klein claims about the dogs hitting on something.

I was just watching/listening some of the more recent Klein interviews. This is a good one. At around 5:20 he says he can announce to the public that a cadaver dog was brought in to check certain pieces of equipment and did hit on three different areas of the pieces of equipment, but that he could not say what that equipment was, but that it means that means there is blood, cerebral fluid, have what you, and that they know there was a death.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8vEx4Eiu_z4


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[kammiemc]

Thanks for explaining, Gia. Good to know I'm not the only one who veers from one theory to the next!

I don't think it was premeditated murder either, I think there was an accident. That could be a "natural" accident like DeOrr wandering off and drowning, or falling, or choking, or running into a big rock or something. Or it could be a "manmade" accident like someone hitting him with an axe, or a car, or medicating him, or leaving him in a hot car.

I really believe if he's got lost or been taken by an animal something would have been found by now. Both LE and the parents are vehement they have covered every nook and cranny. They'd have found his "too big" boots (unless there's some plastic eating wolf that I've never heard of) for sure. Or some fabric, or a footprint, or a toy car / monkey / whatever.

So it does seem like "a person" must know where DeOrr is. It remains to be seen which person that is but LE seems sure it's not Grandpa or Isaac, which leaves the parents or a stranger. I guess they arrived at the conclusion the parents are suspects by a process of elimination.

I'm still of the opinion that all these police and PI's wouldn't ruin a potentially grieving parent for the sake of it. But then, as we know, LE sometimes might use scare tactics in an attempt to draw out the truth. There are plenty of cases where LE have said "so and so is not a suspect" to lull that person into revealing something incriminating. I'm sure the opposite has applied too.

I just wish LE would issue another statement, perhaps Tricia could get him back on to her radio show for an update. Seems all has gone a bit quiet on the press release front (from all parties) and I just hope that means they're getting ready for some big news. We can dream.

I guess I could see a sheriff using the scare tactic of publicly naming the parents suspects to try and make them come clean, but if he didn't have info/evidence/solid reason to do so I think he could get into serious legal trouble. Would he risk that? And he would also have to be blatantly lying about all the poly's and the FBI's determination. Given all that, I'm just not sure he would pretend that he knows something he doesn't just to scare the parents. He seems wiser.

Also, the PI signed by the family who would seemingly have the most reason to give the parents the benefit of the doubt also believes (and expresses all the more forcefully) that the parents know where their son is. He says that he doesn't say it loosely, but firmly. I can't think of why he would point fingers back at the family of his client unless he had serious reason to do so.

I just can't for a moment believe that LE, FBI and Klein are all collectively wrong or trying to mislead people. I go back and question my logic every time I hear someone say something counter. And j just keep ending up in the same place. No way no how that they're off on this. They just need the parents to stop lying and say where DeOrr is right now.


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[DexterMorgan]

I'm still not convinced DeOrr was ever even on this camping trip.

So are you saying that I.r and ggp is that slow to never not notice the missing child in question?

I don'tthink so. Jmo.


How slow would both be?

 

[giagreen]

I was just watching/listening some of the more recent Klein interviews. This is a good one. At around 5:20 he says he can announce to the public that a cadaver dog was brought in to check certain pieces of equipment and did hit on three different areas of the pieces of equipment, but that he could not say what that equipment was, but that it means that means there is blood, cerebral fluid, have what you, and that they know there was a death.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8vEx4Eiu_z4


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Is Klein talking about his own dogs on pieces of equipment that they checked out or that this was what LE reportedly told him?


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[kammiemc]

Is Klein talking about his own dogs on pieces of equipment that they checked out or that this was what LE reportedly told him?


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He didn't seem to clarify that. I am going through more stuff so if I find out for sure I will post it. I "think" I recalled him saying somewhere that it was in the first two weeks of the first part of the investigation. Again, does that mean LE's investigation or KIC's? I dunno. I also thought he clarified that the dog hit on parts of the truck but I am being told that it was actually family member who specified that. So I am looking to see if Klein discussed that after someone let that cat out of the bag.

Oh I will add that the way he announced it made it seem like it was new news to him or that he had been given new permission to announce it. So maybe the sheriff had just not told him.


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[Mickshawn]

So are you saying that I.r and ggp is that slow to never not notice the missing child in question?

I don'tthink so. Jmo.




How slow would both be?

"We" don't know "for certain" what IR and GGP have told LE....Maybe the original plan was to bring DeOrr on the trip...but maybe he never showed up, for some reason. Didn't Klein say the last verified sighting of him was Thursday at 6 p.m.? That could have been anywhere.