ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #27

[CoverMeCagney]

help a rabbit out...so now there's a 'version' that there were TWO trips to the store that morning? TIA!!!

I am also confused about this. We always knew about the trip to the store to buy tampons, but Isaac has revealed there was a trip to buy fuel. Whether or not this is the same trip, I don't know. Isaac says after breakfast he went back to sleep and woke at noon-ish IIRC, so he could easily have been unaware of the first trip, if there was one.

 

[Deleted member 278]

I am also confused about this. We always knew about the trip to the store to buy tampons, but Isaac has revealed there was a trip to buy fuel. Whether or not this is the same trip, I don't know. Isaac says after breakfast he went back to sleep and woke at noon-ish IIRC, so he could easily have been unaware of the first trip, if there was one.

in Jessica's interview last night she said it was one trip.

 

[Inthedetails]

Does anyone think that everyone is covering for Gpop Bob


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I don't think so. Even if he's the beloved grandpa who needs protecting, I don't think anyone would put protecting Grandpa over a child, ykwim? I think if Grandpa were somehow responsible (which I don't think he was), I don't think the entire group would be silent about it for so long.

Could be, but I just don't think so.

Will they now throw him under the bus and imply he did something neglectful? IDK.

I think the parents know exactly what happened and the only people they are protecting are themselves. My opinion only.

 

[Deleted member 278]

I still can't get grandpa's words out of my head.
paraphrase: what's done is done...are we going to have a funeral?

 

[Inthedetails]

I still can't get grandpa's words out of my head.
paraphrase: what's done is done...are we going to have a funeral?

To me, that sounds like a plain-spoken old man and nothing more than that. I think he accepted that the child was "gone," not necessarily that he thinks the child was murdered/accidently killed.

Rather than linger over a lost cause of looking for Deorr to be alive, grandpa was assuming the boy was dead after being lost for so long, and was moving on to the next step of holding a funeral and mourning.

That's how Grandpa's statement sounds to me.

jmOPINION at the moment

 

[CoverMeCagney]

To me, that sounds like a plain-spoken old man and nothing more than that. I think he accepted that the child was "gone," not necessarily that he thinks the child was murdered/accidently killed.

Rather than linger over a lost cause of looking for Deorr to be alive, grandpa was assuming the boy was dead after being lost for so long, and was moving on to the next step of holding a funeral and mourning.

That's how Grandpa's statement sounds to me.

jmOPINION at the moment

But wasn't it said just 3 or 4 days after DeOrr went missing, while search and rescue were still looking for an alive little boy? While the parents were still pressing the abduction theory? While nobody was saying DeOrr was dead?

This isn't a man with dementia (as confirmed by Trina), just a grumpy old grandad. "What's done is done" very much suggests something was "done". To me, anyway. I think he knows.

 

[Deleted member 278]

To me, that sounds like a plain-spoken old man and nothing more than that. I think he accepted that the child was "gone," not necessarily that he thinks the child was murdered/accidently killed.

Rather than linger over a lost cause of looking for Deorr to be alive, grandpa was assuming the boy was dead after being lost for so long, and was moving on to the next step of holding a funeral and mourning.

That's how Grandpa's statement sounds to me.

jmOPINION at the moment

for what it's worth, he made the funeral statement after two or three days of the "disappearance."

 

[Inthedetails]

for what it's worth, he made the funeral statement after two or three days of the "disappearance."

My guess is that the old man assumed that after 2-3 days in the wilderness, the boy was deceased.

It's possible Grandpa knew what happened. My hunch is he is only guessing what happened. He wanted to think the boy wandered off and died. If he wondered if the parents did something, he didn't want to "go there" and would rather simply assume the boy was dead and there was no reason to linger on hope (or truth, for that matter).

Again, it's only my opinion. I have no idea what Grandpa thought or what he witnessed.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I feel the most sorry for Trina, poor woman has had her family ripped to shreds in every conceivable way over this and is clearly beyond devastated. It's more than the tragic loss of a beloved grandchild, it's the loss the world as she knew it, the loss of trust for her own flesh and blood.

I will eat my laptop if it turns out she played any part in this.

 

[Dee10]

I feel the most sorry for Trina, poor woman has had her family ripped to shreds in every conceivable way over this and is clearly beyond devastated. It's more than the tragic loss of a beloved grandchild, it's the loss the world as she knew it, the loss of trust for her own flesh and blood.

I will eat my laptop if it turns out she played any part in this.

I totally agree with you, I can see and feel her pain. One thing I do wonder is where Trina was when Jessica & Vernal went over to help Bob load up the suburban? Wondering if anyone knows if she was working or why she wouldn't have seen DeOrr even if he stayed in his car seat?

 

[Trident]

I still can't get grandpa's words out of my head.
paraphrase: what's done is done...are we going to have a funeral?

Since growing up and moving out of my childhood home, I've managed to live in sketchy neighborhoods, even in high class towns. We used to call the "done is done" train of thought "burying the evidence".

Just my humble opinion

 

[DaleTray]

I am a newbie to this case. I have read a few threads and watched many of the interviews etc. I am not sure I understand where the proof is they were standing side by side when Jess called 911, unless I missed something which could easily/humbly be the case. I hear Jess call 911. Then I hear Vernal calling 911 as we hear both simultaneously from the 911 call center. It appears to me if they were side by side with Vernal hearing Jess make 911 contact he would know contact was made and not call 911 himself. Now, if Vernal was out of sight of Jess not knowing she had made 911 contact I can see where there could be two 911 calls simultaneously. Again, I am late here and don't know near as many details and many/most of you so I am just humbly posting how it appears to me.

 

[SweetT]

I dismissed the idea previously, but after today I am leaning more and more towards this being a possibility. I feel like he's the only one out of the four that would have all the others (plus Trina) cover/lie for them.

Something that stood out to me in the parent's last interview they did together was when Vernal said, "I don't know what happened to my son, I left him with a trusted and respected adult, and that's the last time I saw him." That seemed like a really odd way to refer to the GGP. IMO he added unnecessary qualifiers and at the same time was distancing himself from the GGP by not saying his name or his relation to the family.

Maybe Vernal helped cover up an accident involving GGP and that has put him in a tough position because he'll end up in trouble too (tampering, obstruction, etc.) if he reveals the truth at this point? That seems logical to me today, but I'll probably think something else tomorrow. Whoever said this case is a circus hit the nail on the head.

I take that statement more as one in which he is trying to cover his butt for negligence. JMO. There is no reason in the world for them to cover for ggpa, even if ggpa did something to the baby, which I do not think he did. I think it was him throwing a bone that way like I said to Cover his own negligent butt. Because it really comes down to watching your own child and he knows this. So of course if youre going to say you left your child with ggpa, then ggpa better be trusted, respected and coherent right? Like I said this is my opinion. I think ggpa did nothing to that baby.

 

[SweetT]

I have a question and I am sure it was answered here already but where did everyone sleep the night prior to baby Deorr going missing? Mostly I want to know where Vernal, Jessica and baby DeOrr slept . TIA

 

[Paulas88]

Whatever happened to the guppies? Remember? The very first storyline, where JM/VDK went exploring and discovered some guppies and went back to camp and found Deorr missing after being gone 17 minutes.

 

[Dee10]

I have a question and I am sure it was answered here already but where did everyone sleep the night prior to baby Deorr going missing? Mostly I want to know where Vernal, Jessica and baby DeOrr slept . TIA

I think this is the only thing Vernal, Jessica & Isaac agree on:

Bob - Camper
Issac - Tent
Vernal/Jessica/DeOrr on back of the suburban

 

[DaleTray]

I will say, wow, this case has me torn which way to even think. I am late coming in to this case so respectfully understand I am trying to look at the facts as a latecomer . I know as a WS member follow many cases how we all become emotionally involved and want to find the perp and have them convicted. I have also seen cases on WS where we literally feel 100% of someone's guilt to later find out of their innocence. I say all this prior to asking my question. Please don't shoot the messenger. I have no clue who the perp is. My question is...what are the odds that maybe Deorr was actually abducted or maybe, in fact, did wander off? I understand odds of wandering or wild animal snatching would probably leave the too big of boots found. Animal grabbing would potentially leave blood evidence. I do believe if there was a pedophile or abductor in the vicinity maybe watching the 4 adults/1 small child and watched the parents stroll to the creek then see a very old GGF and his friend maybe not keep a close eye on Deorr there could be easy abduction. But no doubt LE has researched other campers alibi's, etc. I am not saying I believe what has happened, just speculating. I have heard speculation Jess maybe grew tired of being a mother and wanted the motherless lifestyle again. Another angle I can appreciate. To be honest, I really don't see where Jess remarrying or Vernal moving looks bad. I can see where a strained relationship went from bad degraded to worse. Vernal needed money/job and I think he had a broken heart. I doesnt appear to me that Jess remarrying plays any part in Deorr disappearance. I dont think marriage and testimony plays a part. Maybe it does play a part in Jess wanting to be motherless w no parenting obligations and sought a man for motherless relationship. But in watching all the interviews and quite a bit of reading on my part recently I really dont think Vernal knows anything. The one thing that SCREAMS OUT TO ME is what you as a group have brought to the forum...why didnt LE find any dirty diapers. I am not LE and know what they know when they knew it. Maybe LE didnt think about the diaper issue for a couple of days and all campground trash has been discarded, etc. but if they thought of diaper issue day of disappearance and couldnt find a diaper would lend to the potential that Deorr was never at the campground. Also, I have no idea who or how many were neighbor campers camping at that time but no doubt, Deorr would have been a loud little boy running around. He was so cute. I have to feel if there were female campers someone would have reported to LE something along the lines of "Yes, he was just running around happy/loudly in his boots that appeared to be too big making it hard to walk" "But he was just so, so cute. Yes he was here" Since we havent heard of any neighboring campers comments from LE and with LE now saying they think it's a homicide, maybe Deorr actually never arrived at campground. Maybe the parents did play GFF and his buddy as an alibi.
I have spent this time typing all this because it sort of appears Vernal loved his son tremendously and couldnt play a part in his disappearance. I believe if he knew hos wife had done something bad he would come forward late in the game.
Again, I humbly type all this with nowhere near the knowledge many of you have so please dont yell at me as you can prove some of my speculation as incorrect I sure wish I knew what LE knows. It would be so sad if their son did in fact wander off and we assume them guilty because the body hasnt been found. I trust LE to find the facts. Maybe they wont find the body but I think they know the facts

 

[leep]

I will say, wow, this case has me torn which way to even think. I am late coming in to this case so respectfully understand I am trying to look at the facts as a latecomer . I know as a WS member follow many cases how we all become emotionally involved and want to find the perp and have them convicted. I have also seen cases on WS where we literally feel 100% of someone's guilt to later find out of their innocence. I say all this prior to asking my question. Please don't shoot the messenger. I have no clue who the perp is. My question is...what are the odds that maybe Deorr was actually abducted or maybe, in fact, did wander off? I understand odds of wandering or wild animal snatching would probably leave the too big of boots found. Animal grabbing would potentially leave blood evidence. I do believe if there was a pedophile or abductor in the vicinity maybe watching the 4 adults/1 small child and watched the parents stroll to the creek then see a very old GGF and his friend maybe not keep a close eye on Deorr there could be easy abduction. But no doubt LE has researched other campers alibi's, etc. I am not saying I believe what has happened, just speculating. I have heard speculation Jess maybe grew tired of being a mother and wanted the motherless lifestyle again. Another angle I can appreciate. To be honest, I really don't see where Jess remarrying or Vernal moving looks bad. I can see where a strained relationship went from bad degraded to worse. Vernal needed money/job and I think he had a broken heart. I doesnt appear to me that Jess remarrying plays any part in Deorr disappearance. I dont think marriage and testimony plays a part. Maybe it does play a part in Jess wanting to be motherless w no parenting obligations and sought a man for motherless relationship. But in watching all the interviews and quite a bit of reading on my part recently I really dont think Vernal knows anything. The one thing that SCREAMS OUT TO ME is what you as a group has brought to the forum...why didnt LE find any dirty diapers. I am not LE and know what they know when they knew it. Maybe LE didnt think about the diaper issue for a couple of days and all campground trash has been discarded, etc. but if they thought of diaper issue day of disappearance and couldnt find a diaper would lend to the potential that Deorr was never at the campground. Also, I have no idea who or how many were neighbor campers camping at that time but no doubt, Deorr would have been a loud little boy running around. He was so cute. I have to feel if there were female campers someone would have reported to LE something along the lines of "Yes, he was just running around happy/loudly in his boots that appeared to be too big making it hard to walk" "But he was just so, so cute. Yes he was here" Since we havent heard of any neighboring campers comments from LE and with LE now saying they think it's a homicide, maybe Deorr actually never arrived at campground. Maybe the parents did play GFF and his buddy as an alibi.
I have spent this time typing all this because it sort of appears Vernal loved his son tremendously and couldnt play a part in his disappearance. I believe if he knew hos wife had done something bad he would come forward late in the game.
Again, I humbly type all this with nowhere near the knowledge many of you have so please dont yell at me as you can prove some of my speculation as incorrect I sure wish I knew what LE knows. It would be so sad if their son did in fact wander off and we assume them guilty because the body hasnt been found. I trust LE to find the facts. Maybe they wont find the body but I think they know the facts

Respectfully your not a family member are you by any chance?
Both these parents are as guilty as one and other they both know what happened to there son and where he is, we now know from SB they failed both questions regarding there sons whereabouts in 4 separate polygraph tests.


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[CoverMeCagney]

I think this is the only thing Vernal, Jessica & Isaac agree on:

Bob - Camper
Issac - Tent
Vernal/Jessica/DeOrr on back of the suburban

I know this has been covered before, but I'm very confused about the vehicles.

From Isaacs recent interview:

Did someone have a camper up there?
Yeah, Bob did
And you slept in a tent?
Right
Where did Jessica Deorr and little guy sleep?
They slept in the back of Bob's blue Blazer


That's the first time I've heard Blazer being used? Where does Suburban come into it? Which was Vernal's? I seem to recall a camper is like a UK caravan, correct?

 

[Inthedetails]

Whatever happened to the guppies? Remember? The very first storyline, where JM/VDK went exploring and discovered some guppies and went back to camp and found Deorr missing after being gone 17 minutes.

Minnows.

(recalling long discussions about the minnows....but I do think the story has changed about the minnows)