ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #28

[Onebest]

On today's KTVB news: Kunz family planning to search for missing toddler Saturday

https://www.facebook.com/KTVB7/posts/10154492922858991

"The Lemhi County Sheriff's Office has named both of DeOrr's parents, Jessica Mitchell and DeOrr Kunz Sr., as suspects in the case. Clegg told KTVB she's OK with her daughter being named a suspect because she was there. Clegg says had she been there too she would probably be a suspect."


What?!?!? Yet, Bob and Isaac haven't been named suspects. Is she implying they should be? And maybe that she should be too? What a bizarre thing to say.

AHHHHHHH no thats NOT what happened, TBC missed the target with this remark. Everyone there were first named POIs because they were present and yes, she was looked at too. Her daughter and her daughters boyfriend, Baby DeOOrs parents were named suspects because they LIED their beehinds off for months and months and could not pass multiple polygraphs. I wouldnt be OK with that if I was (God forbid) their Mother.

I am suspicious of this weekends search because two weeks ago TBC and JM-whever were up there alone "searching". I dont get that, no other family, no VK, no Auntie that cares more then anyone....doesnt make sense to me one bit that no one else came. I really wonder what LE thinks of all this. I dont think anything will be found because I dont believe he was ever there either. I think its all smoke and mirrors to hide the truth and I dont trust the suspects, however, I think they could be planting evidence. JMO.

 

[Deleted member 278]

Announcement on Facebook:

TBC has designed T-shirts and is planning to stand (wearing her shirt) with a banner the 10th of every month (in the future) on a busy intersection reminding everyone Deorr is still missing.

WHY the search on 1./2. October if she is foreseeing Deorr will not be found??? :gaah:

mommy and daddy should be doing that, not granny

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Sort of, I guess? Still an odd thing to write, in my opinion. She seems close to the family, so I find her words interesting.

Honestly I felt she jumped into the case with full gusto in response to all the EIN and Klein coverage. I thought at the time the reason was she felt the coverage had been unfair/biased. That is just my opinion though. I have no idea what she thinks about the case now.

As an aside I think I remember recently someone posting a link in this thread to a EIN article and later editing it out stating it being a banned source. Is EIN now banned here? What is story about that if so? (sorry for the random questions!)

 

[KatieLiz]

I'm honestly starting to wonder if they have disposed of him so "well" that they are confident he will never ever be found... I don't want to think of those possibilities or scenarios but they are starting to creep back into my mind.

 

[Deleted member 278]

AHHHHHHH no thats NOT what happened, TBC missed the target with this remark. Everyone there were first named POIs because they were present and yes, she was looked at too. Her daughter and her daughters boyfriend, Baby DeOOrs parents were named suspects because they LIED their beehinds off for months and months and could not pass multiple polygraphs. I wouldnt be OK with that if I was (God forbid) their Mother.

I am suspicious of this weekends search because two weeks ago TBC and JM-whever were up there alone "searching". I dont get that, no other family, no VK, no Auntie that cares more then anyone....doesnt make sense to me one bit that no one else came. I really wonder what LE thinks of all this. I dont think anything will be found because I dont believe he was ever there either. I think its all smoke and mirrors to hide the truth and I dont trust the suspects, however, I think they could be planting evidence. JMO.

what kind of evidence?

 

[desert-blue]

AHHHHHHH no thats NOT what happened, TBC missed the target with this remark. Everyone there were first named POIs because they were present and yes, she was looked at too. Her daughter and her daughters boyfriend, Baby DeOOrs parents were named suspects because they LIED their beehinds off for months and months and could not pass multiple polygraphs. I wouldnt be OK with that if I was (God forbid) their Mother.

I am suspicious of this weekends search because two weeks ago TBC and JM-whever were up there alone "searching". I dont get that, no other family, no VK, no Auntie that cares more then anyone....doesnt make sense to me one bit that no one else came. I really wonder what LE thinks of all this. I dont think anything will be found because I dont believe he was ever there either. I think its all smoke and mirrors to hide the truth and I dont trust the suspects, however, I think they could be planting evidence. JMO.

Yes, she certainly did gloss over the real reasons that her daughter is a suspect. It's most definitely not just because she was there. Mom needs to wake up and smell the coffee.

I agree with your thoughts about the search this weekend - it's very curious.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Announcement on Facebook:

TBC has designed T-shirts and is planning to stand (wearing her shirt) with a banner the 10th of every month (in the future) on a busy intersection reminding everyone Deorr is still missing.

WHY the search on 1./2. October if she is foreseeing Deorr will not be found??? :gaah:

I think/hope this is about Trina trying to guilt trip Jessica (or someone else) into breaking. Just my opinion.

 

[desert-blue]

what kind of evidence?

Something that they think will "prove" DeOrr was at the campsite? - a boot or a sock maybe? I don't know. Planting evidence would be risky but someone could have planted something a long time ago. Who knows. I tend to think they will find nothing, but I'm a little skeptical of the whole thing - the timing, their sudden interest in certain areas (that have most likely already been searched), and the general lack of organization - it just feels off to me. MOO.

 

[Onebest]

what kind of evidence?

Truthfully not a clue...just suspicious thats all, pure speculation. It just doesnt make sense to me. JMO

 

[neesaki]

Cynical works for me. I didn't mean to mislead people I'm not sure exactly where they are going to search but they are meeting at the Stage Stop again so I have to assume it's somewhere up on the mountain. I am not even sure if the flyer said any exact plans on where they are going to conduct this search.

desert-Blue so on the money with your post! If a fruitless search wasn't enough incentive there is now the chance to get shot by armed searchers, sign me up. I also find the timing curious, it's not like they didn't have spring and summer to plan this, why wait until fall? I want justice for little Deorr but can't imagine this search is going to amount to anything other than a publicity stunt for the guilty parties. Bearing that in mind I hope no one shows up and the immediate family can spend some quality time by themselves pretending to search.

I hope I'm wrong, but like you I'm afraid this may be more of a publicity stunt than a serious search. I wonder how many search dogs they'll have? Any at all? Anyone with SAR? Has J for some reason now decided she needs to try and convince the public that she's grown a conscience and has at last become a concerned mother who wants to find her child. Well, I guess anythings possible. But why wait till now after all this time to search? Because her love life is on the rocks so she has a little time to spare? Oh never mind, it's not her it's her mother TBC. I suppose she actually thinks this charade will make her daughter look less guilty. What she apparently doesn't realize is that no one will forget the fact that it was her daughter that turned down a national hotline and a $20,000 reward.

Remember early in the search they flew drones over the area, Sheriff B said it was in case there were criminal charges, IIRC. I wonder if they've thought of flying drones over the area again for comparison. I've also wondered what happened to Texas Equusearch coming in to search, Klein mentioned it not long after he came in on the case but then didn't mention it again. Do they think it's a waste of time and resources because they don't know exactly where to search, that he's perhaps in another area far away from the campground?

Another thought, I'm somewhat suspicious of why TBC would choose to search the area that was already searched by searchers including HRD dog Chance. And, also suspicious why she stated it had never been searched. Did she actually not know? If so, she knows by now. So maybe they are searching elsewhere. Since I can't read the discussion part of their FB page could someone tell me if there's any further details on the search? Or are they purposely leaving out that information? I suppose it's obvious I'm right there with ya, bitter and cynical.

 

[Paulas88]

I work with a dude from Africa who always has interesting/wise African sayings that I enjoy, like this: "the elephants are rumbling". Which means, there's trouble in the air. For some reason after all this time JMA and mom are sponsoring some searches? Why now?

 

[Onebest]

I hope I'm wrong, but like you I'm afraid this may be more of a publicity stunt than a serious search. I wonder how many search dogs they'll have? Any at all? Anyone with SAR? Has J for some reason now decided she needs to try and convince the public that she's grown a conscience and has at last become a concerned mother who wants to find her child. Well, I guess anythings possible. But why wait till now after all this time to search? Because her love life is on the rocks so she has a little time to spare? Oh never mind, it's not her it's her mother TBC. I suppose she actually thinks this charade will make her daughter look less guilty. What she apparently doesn't realize is that no one will forget the fact that it was her daughter that turned down a national hotline and a $20,000 reward.

Remember early in the search they flew drones over the area, Sheriff B said it was in case there were criminal charges, IIRC. I wonder if they've thought of flying drones over the area again for comparison. I've also wondered what happened to Texas Equusearch coming in to search, Klein mentioned it not long after he came in on the case but then didn't mention it again. Do they think it's a waste of time and resources because they don't know exactly where to search, that he's perhaps in another area far away from the campground?

Another thought, I'm somewhat suspicious of why TBC would choose to search the area that was already searched by searchers including HRD dog Chance. And, also suspicious why she stated it had never been searched. Did she actually not know? If so, she knows by now. So maybe they are searching elsewhere. Since I can't read the discussion part of their FB page could someone tell me if there's any further details on the search? Or are they purposely leaving out that information? I suppose it's obvious I'm right there with ya, bitter and cynical.

Only this on news link:
http://www.ktvb.com/news/kunz-family-planning-to-search-for-missing-toddler-this-saturday/328034069

"Clegg plans to get a group together this weekend to go up and search the campsite area. Although, she says this search will be a little further north.

"Where was he last seen? Where were you standing? All those kind of things and that's been so beat up that we know where they were all standing. We know where the baby was last seen. Let’s start further out and let’s come back in," Clegg said.

Clegg says future searches could include walking along Highway 28. She says that's because if someone did take DeOrr, maybe they threw his clothes or boots along the highway."

And there will not be SAR resources out unless they were called and organized by LE and I see nothing about LE support on any site....could be wrong and missing it. JMO

 

[Deleted member 278]

Only this on news link:
http://www.ktvb.com/news/kunz-family-planning-to-search-for-missing-toddler-this-saturday/328034069

"Clegg plans to get a group together this weekend to go up and search the campsite area. Although, she says this search will be a little further north.

"Where was he last seen? Where were you standing? All those kind of things and that's been so beat up that we know where they were all standing. We know where the baby was last seen. Let’s start further out and let’s come back in," Clegg said.

Clegg says future searches could include walking along Highway 28. She says that's because if someone did take DeOrr, maybe they threw his clothes or boots along the highway."

And there will not be SAR resources out unless they were called and organized by LE and I see nothing about LE support on any site....could be wrong and missing it. JMO

future searches? When? In the spring? So so tired of this charade.

 

[neesaki]

Only this on news link:
http://www.ktvb.com/news/kunz-family-planning-to-search-for-missing-toddler-this-saturday/328034069

"Clegg plans to get a group together this weekend to go up and search the campsite area. Although, she says this search will be a little further north.

"Where was he last seen? Where were you standing? All those kind of things and that's been so beat up that we know where they were all standing. We know where the baby was last seen. Let’s start further out and let’s come back in," Clegg said.

Clegg says future searches could include walking along Highway 28. She says that's because if someone did take DeOrr, maybe they threw his clothes or boots along the highway."

And there will not be SAR resources out unless they were called and organized by LE and I see nothing about LE support on any site....could be wrong and missing it. JMO

Thanks, Onebest. That's what I was wondering . I have to wonder too, how a toddler that size could have gotten that far by himself, especially with boots too large they would fall off. But then he could have been taken there. Similar to what some believe happened to Jerold Joseph Williams, whose father wanted to get rid of him, as he was a liability to him concerning charges against him at the time.

This is case stinks to high heaven. Jmo

 

[amateur sleuth]

I think/hope this is about Trina trying to guilt trip Jessica (or someone else) into breaking. Just my opinion.

Will never happen!

 

[misty48]

With all due respect, you are not LE and do not know more than them. In the US double jeopardy laws are a big deal, which is why we don't have an arrest yet. LE has named them suspects based on a hell of a lot more than the polygraphs. That is just one small piece of this massive puzzle. They would not be using the words suspects and intentional homicide, as well as saying they don't think he's on the mountain and won't search anymore, unless they had some damn good evidence. These are professionals dealing with a missing 2 year old. If they thought there was a shred of hope they would be searching daily still.

The police are not the ones needing to defend themselves here, the suspects are.

And Klein is being sued because J and V are trying to intimidate him. The case has.no merit. People can file frivolous lawsuits daily if they want to. Just because you see someone is being sued doesn't mean they have grounds for their case. The US is the most litigious society in the world (I think...) and you can file frivolous suits if you so choose. Doesn't mean you will win.

Of course Deorr could be concealed somewhere and have been missed by searchers. But constant lies by the parents, failed polys and every other thing we know tells us otherwise. That's not even mentioning phones records, texts, and pings. The cops know SO MUCH that hasn't been released. It's 2016. Can't get far without leaving an electronic footprint.

And you asked about.libel laws in the US..... that should tell you exactly why the Sheriff and Klein wouldn't be talking without good evidence. -- could you imagine them finding Deorr snagged in the creek right now? If they were just calling out J and V without evidence and then find Deorr they would be sued back to the stone age. They are speaking out because they know a hell of a lot more than we do.

Since you seem to be challenging us so much and defending them I would LOVE for you to explain your stance. If this child vanished innocently please explain his parents behaviour, especially Jessicas. Please explain the thousands of lies, I mean STORIES, they have said. I want to hear a legitimate defence. They can't even explain their day to us or piece together when or how Deorr went missing or even who was with who. I would love to hear you piece it together to make sense for me because the way I see it now I can't even understand anyone believing them right now.

Abd just for the record: i am a "stick it to the man" type of person and I rarely believe LE flat out without a lot of scrutiny.

First of all, I subscribe to the old adage "innocent until proven guilty".
Next, you refer to double jeopardy. I ask you to look at the case of Bianca Jones/D'Andre Lane where a man was convicted of murder purely on circumstantial evidence & cadaver alerts, despite the child not being found to date. What's so different about Deorr's case?
If LE want closure they should still be searching, not leaving it to a PI to scratch around for evidence they may have missed. Did Klein take Chance up to Stone Reservoir?
You refer to lies & electronic footprints. Where can I find precise details of all the discrepancies in the statements made by JA & VDK, along with the records of the phone pings, please? - or are we merely to accept the word of LE/Klein?
Having listened to the recent interview given by IR (and Klein specifically stated IR had been truthful) what led Klein to state that Deorr was never at the campsite? Surely any half-decent PI would have ensured he had statements from ALL parties at the scene before making a decision on culpability.
The Libel is a side issue which I cannot discuss if US civil law is at great variance with UK Law. I have a vague recollection of a case in the US in which someone was awarded circa $250000 for being the recipient of what was deemed a racially offensive comment. Is that somehow more serious than being accused of disposing of your child?

 

[Beezneez]

Good grief - in a post from yesterday evening, one of the event organizers reminded folks to bring their bear and mountain lion tags because there have been sightings. I can only assume this means they ought to also bring their firearms. So, the family is hoping for a large turnout of searchers, some of whom will be armed with guns ready to be drawn, so they can all go out (unassisted by law enforcement) and wander around in the wilderness for two days (during hunting season) alongside the suspect(s) looking for who knows what? Hopefully no one gets shot (or lost or hurt). And they will be so confused and disappointed in the public when folks don't show up in hordes to join the charade. And shucks, it's going to snow soon, so no more searching.... phew! Good thing they didn't start searching in June! That would have put a crimp in their summer plans... you know, like weddings and stuff.

This!!! ^^^^ 100%!!

 

[Mickshawn]

Thanks, Onebest. That's what I was wondering . I have to wonder too, how a toddler that size could have gotten that far by himself, especially with boots too large they would fall off. But then he could have been taken there. Similar to what some believe happened to Jerold Joseph Williams, whose father wanted to get rid of him, as he was a liability to him concerning charges against him at the time.

This is case stinks to high heaven. Jmo

Those too large boots.....Who the heck even knows if he was really wearing "too large boots"??? Just one more thing we've been told....

 

[desert-blue]

First of all, I subscribe to the old adage "innocent until proven guilty".
Next, you refer to double jeopardy. I ask you to look at the case of Bianca Jones/D'Andre Lane where a man was convicted of murder purely on circumstantial evidence & cadaver alerts, despite the child not being found to date. What's so different about Deorr's case?
If LE want closure they should still be searching, not leaving it to a PI to scratch around for evidence they may have missed. Did Klein take Chance up to Stone Reservoir?
You refer to lies & electronic footprints. Where can I find precise details of all the discrepancies in the statements made by JA & VDK, along with the records of the phone pings, please? - or are we merely to accept the word of LE/Klein?
Having listened to the recent interview given by IR (and Klein specifically stated IR had been truthful) what led Klein to state that Deorr was never at the campsite? Surely any half-decent PI would have ensured he had statements from ALL parties at the scene before making a decision on culpability.
The Libel is a side issue which I cannot discuss if US civil law is at great variance with UK Law. I have a vague recollection of a case in the US in which someone was awarded circa $250000 for being the recipient of what was deemed a racially offensive comment. Is that somehow more serious than being accused of disposing of your child?

The problem with J and V's libel case is that they are claiming that Mr. Klein is responsible for damaging their reputation. What they apparently fail to understand is that they were named suspects by LE, not by Klein, and the public was highly suspicious of them very early on - nothing they said ever made sense. There was public speculation that DeOrr was never at the campground clear back in July of 2015. Bowermans' press release on July 20th stated he was scaling back searching and the investigation was moving in a different direction. Klein had absolutely nothing to do with any of that and it's ridiculous to think he owes them money for ruining their reputations. They ruined their own reputations by lying and changing their stories and not seeming all that concerned with finding their child, long before Klein was ever involved. He just confirmed what everyone already thought. That is much different than racially offensive comments against what I presume to be an innocent person. I know nothing of the case you are referring to, but I doubt that it is in any way comparable to V and J's case against Klein. All MOO.

 

[koios]

MOO is the search efforts by J and T are honest.