ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #28

[carbuff]

He sounds to me like a man on the edge of a nervous breakdown, or whatever they call it these days. (Note that this comment has no bearing on guilt or innocence.)

 

[Paulas88]

Just listened and watched again, this dude is bizarre. He's laughing, attempting to create false scenarios, and if not false, making light of them. And nothing about him reflects a parent who has lost their son. There is something seriously wrong here. I would be more emotional if I were talking about my dog. :cry:

He's just blabbering with unnecessary details. DeOrr definitely wasn't at the campground at that time (IMO). This latest clip seals
it for me.

 

[desert-blue]

Obviously Bob was not surprised that Isaac hired an attorney. Bob even said he might need one too. If DeOrr was kidnapped or wandered off, why would any of the four need an attorney? That would be surprising. It seems very clear to me that Bob is not thinking "abduction" or "wandering" - he knows something (and probably even what) happened to DeOrr and that's what Isaac didn't want to get "nailed for." MOO.

 

[desert-blue]

He's just blabbering with unnecessary details. DeOrr definitely wasn't at the campground at that time (IMO). This latest clip seals
it for me.

I think he's loosely recollecting some previous (not on the camping trip) memories of DeOrr and using those to explain DeOrr's location near the back of the truck. It's a hodgepodge of BS with ulterior motives. I don't think an innocent person in his right mind could talk so casually and chuckle and reminisce like that about the last day he saw his still-missing child. MOO.

 

[neesaki]

He sounds to me like a man on the edge of a nervous breakdown, or whatever they call it these days. (Note that this comment has no bearing on guilt or innocence.)

I actually wish I could see nervous breakdown, it would make him seem more human, and possibly less guilty. But to me, I see nervousness and fear. Which is what I would expect to see from someone who is covering up a crime. jmo

 

[neesaki]

I think he's loosely recollecting some previous (not on the camping trip) memories of DeOrr and using those to explain DeOrr's location near the back of the truck. It's a hodgepodge of BS with ulterior motives. I don't think an innocent person in his right mind could talk so casually and chuckle and reminisce like that about the last day he saw his still-missing child. MOO.

Yes, his behavior is eerie.

 

[ZooSleuth]

Yep good point. But I guess by then they already probably had the evidence on the truck and VDK likely knew that (or at least assumed it). He seems to be going out of his way to mention the spots around the truck that Deorr touched.

Agreed. I remember one of the earlier claims of DNA evidence from Klein came off of a piece of "equipment." I also remember right after that one of the family members came out and was trying to explain away blood on VDK's truck prior to us ever hearing anything from Klein or LE about VDK's truck or blood.

Anybody else think that something to do with the truck may be what Klein was talking about when he made the statement, "We know 'the how', but we don't know 'the why'" (Or whatever that convoluted statement said lol)

 

[ZooSleuth]

Yes, his behavior is eerie.

He seems more upset that he's not with JM anymore than he is that his kid is missing/deceased.

 

[carbuff]

I actually wish I could see nervous breakdown, it would make him seem more human, and possibly less guilty. But to me, I see nervousness and fear. Which is what I would expect to see from someone who is covering up a crime. jmo

It may be that also.

 

[OSpyder]

I am at my friend's house (whom I don't know too well) and I keep thinking about Deorr b/c my friend keeps saying "the/my boy..." Makes me cringe but... Idk.. This whole thing. Just so weird! As for the tailpipe, my dog goes near anything that resembles hot, I am yelling " Diesel, HOT!! Back up!" Idk, I want to think the best but I am having such a hard time... :sigh:

 

[KatieLiz]

Just listened and watched again, this dude is bizarre. He's laughing, attempting to create false scenarios, and if not false, making light of them. And nothing about him reflects a parent who has lost their son. There is something seriously wrong here. I would be more emotional if I were talking about my dog. :cry:

That's why I'm frustrated when I see people leaning towards Jessica somehow being "more guilty" than Vernal now. No way. Especially now that they aren't together. There is no question in my mind that they were in this together from minute 1.

ETA: Vernal does seem like the guilt could be getting to him a bit. GGP too. But... Not Jessica. She's definitely a sociopath. But that doesn't make her any more guilty than the rest.

 

[KatieLiz]

Obviously Bob was not surprised that Isaac hired an attorney. Bob even said he might need one too. If DeOrr was kidnapped or wandered off, why would any of the four need an attorney? That would be surprising. It seems very clear to me that Bob is not thinking "abduction" or "wandering" - he knows something (and probably even what) happened to DeOrr and that's what Isaac didn't want to get "nailed for." MOO.

No doubt IR lawyered up. The amount I've seen Jessica, her mothers, and friends point the finger in his direction. I don't blame him for getting a lawyer. He should have done that before he agreed to speak to reporters.

 

[neesaki]

He sounds to me like a man on the edge of a nervous breakdown, or whatever they call it these days. (Note that this comment has no bearing on guilt or innocence.)

BTW, I do understand and appreciate how you seem to be giving them the benefit of the doubt. I actually tried for a long time to do that. Remember ? The mountain lion discussions ? Well, that was me.
At this point though, I'm having a really hard time believing the parents are completely innocent.

So, that said, I realize there are possibilities that regardless how small, are still possible. Such as:

- there is a small chance that some person stalked them and abducted little Deorr, while they were being their usual neglectful selves. Yes, I said that.
- maybe IR passed him off to someone.
- maybe GGP did something, accident or otherwise
- a mountain lion or wolf took him... Probably not, but I can't totally let it go, not yet. :blush:

Is there any other scenarios you have in mind ? I am in brainstorm mode.

 

[Eloise]

ETA: Vernal does seem like the guilt could be getting to him a bit. GGP too. But... Not Jessica. She's definitely a sociopath. But that doesn't make her any more guilty than the rest.

I think this is an important point.
Vernal being more stressed and upset doesn't mean he's less guilty of committing a crime against Deorr.
It just means he has some kind of conscience and sense of right and wrong.

 

[Lillahazel]

"I like playing with him you know little games". That little bit of information in DK's latest interview seems so out of place, sandwiched between his story. He reminds me of the dog in the movie Up. Squirrel!

 

[KatieLiz]

I think this is an important point.
Vernal being more stressed and upset doesn't mean he's less guilty of committing a crime against Deorr.
It just means he has some kind of conscience and sense of right and wrong.

Exactly.

He has never had a problem taking "control" of this situation. Talk talk talking all the time. Always talking over Jessica. Going off on tangents. I'm not convinced he feels all that remorseful... I just think he can't handle the pressure of living through the investigation and knowing what could lurk around every corner.

Jessica, on the other hand, seems to be trying to just start a new life (again). I wouldn't be surprised to see a pregnancy announcement soon. Nothing would shock me at this point. In my opinion, she is the true definition of a sociopath (if my suspicions in this case are correct).

 

[desert-blue]

No doubt IR lawyered up. The amount I've seen Jessica, her mothers, and friends point the finger in his direction. I don't blame him for getting a lawyer. He should have done that before he agreed to speak to reporters.

He should have got one before he went on the trip.... (just kidding)

 

[The Apparition]

"I like playing with him you know little games". That little bit of information in DK's latest interview seems so out of place, sandwiched between his story. He reminds me of the dog in the movie Up. Squirrel!

Yeah I didn't like hearing that either. It reeked of a I'm a nice guy and even liked playing with my kid so I'm innocent ploy. Vernal strikes me as the type of guy who has gone through life bull sitting his way through and is used to people buying his nonsense. He is in way over his head now. He is truly playing in the big leagues now with LE and PI's all over his every word but he still spins yarns like he's out back drinking with the good ole boys. I imagine the police interviews went just about as well as the ones Klein is kind enough to share with us.

I think Klein is brilliant for releasing all of these videos. We know Jessica and Vernal keep a very close eye on social media, it must be killing them to see people eviscerate them in the comments sections constantly. I wonder if they've taken to wearing disguises when they go out so they don't constantly catch side eye. They have their freedom for now but I can't imagine they are enjoying their days much.

 

[Leader6518]

Lately I have been trying to explore the arranged selling of baby Deorr theory. I know Klein has said several times that it's a homicide but it seems like Kleins information slowly evolves into something else. I really don't feel like these two are the sharpest crayons in the box to pull off anything without help. Especially getting away with murder. What if there is a completely separate outside person that arranged a sale? Maybe they meet this person at the Clover Creek motel? Both JM and VDK would have participated. JM shows no emotion because she is happy to be free. VDK shows emotion because he is regretting his decision. Grandpa wants a funeral because in his mind "what's done is done" and Deorr isn't coming back to family so he might as well be dead in his eyes. IR is the clueless witness. The phone chargers and burner phones (I will state again this is a theory and the burner phones are also part of that theory) were purchased as per the directions of this third party person as a means to communicate. I also come back to the photo that was posted many threads ago with the truck on the side of the road that was spotted in the surveillance video. To me that photo always seemed like a person making some type of delivery with another person. Obviously it has never been proven the photo was them but it always gives me a bit of the creeps. Maybe the cremains were even part of the distraction. I remember SB stating something about an arranged sale as unlikely but only because he has a hard time believing someone could do that to their own child. Personally I have no problem believing these two would be that low. He also stated he thought it was a homicide but only because of the lack of baby Deorr and the fact that the parents are lying about their missing child.

There it's late and I'm starting to ramble. Has anyone else looked back at all the new information and looked at it from this perspective?

That would be one scenario IF other family members were not involved. I lost my son just days before little DeOrr went missing. I was numb, sort of in shock. I went through the motions and only had break downs when I was alone with one or two family members. I remember not knowing what to do and being out of it. Our bodies have a way of initially protecting us from the worst experiences. It wasn't until a month later that it really hit me and I had to take time off from work. That being said, JMA does not display the actions of a mother whose child has been taken and needs to be found. Or a mother who has come to the realization that her child wondered off and is likely deceased. As long as I had family around me telling stories of my son and helping me, I could laugh and seem fairly normal. However, any mention of funeral arrangements, burial, etc. and I was a mess. I don't buy that a mother could not shed a tear when talking about her missing child. She may not sob in front of people, but there would be tears and red eyes. Even today, I will think of my son and tears form and I look like I'm crying. I never hung my head when talking about my son, at any time.

With the information we have and JMAs actions, I think it is simply a case that little DeOrr was not being watched. Something happened to him and neither could face the family over their obvious negligence. I could also see JMA letting something happen (if she truly is like Casey Anthony and is a sociopath) and wanting to be with her new man, but not have the responsibilities or ties to VDK (or VDK not wanting to pay child support). I just don't get why VDK protects her. And IF IR had anything to do with something happening to little DeOrr, loving parents would have been screaming from the top of their lungs, not protecting him. I believe the parents are solely responsible for his disappearance. It is just whether it was from a real accident (he was not watched or got in the way of a fight) or a planned accident (taking him on a camping trip and setting him up to get hurt). The theory of something happening prior to reaching the camp ground is a possibility. That would explain why all adults seem to be covering for each other. I think that IR has told LE much more than they are admitting. LE just needs to find some evidence to back up what they know. All JMO

 

[Leader6518]

I'm so sorry about your children sillybilly.

Their use of names for baby Deorr reminds me of the book "A Child Called It". With my son I always say "our boy" or "my bear". Even if I'm joking and my son has done something silly I say "your boy" to my husband. To me "that" or "it" makes it feel like he's an object. Both my mother and mother in law say "my boy". I think at this point I'm going to start saying "that Jessica" when I write.

I am right with you sillybilly. I have never referred to any of my children as "that". I always refer to my son I lost by his name or my son. The only time I have ever referred to my children or grandchildren as "that child" is before they were born and I was talking in general "That baby will be spoiled" because I had'nt held or seen him/her yet. My own children, were always my baby, my son or their name.

The Anthony's used "that little girl" because they both new she was deceased from the time they found the car with the smell of a dead body in it. They were distancing themselves from a deceased child.

Sorry, I know I am way behind, but there are some things that I feel very strongly about and losing a child, and the feelings associated with it, is at the top of my list. The feeling of loss of a child can not be faked. It is either there or it isn't; and only someone who has been there would spot the fake feelings immediately. I hate to hear people say "everyone grieves differently". That is not accurate. Everyone grieves the same. What is different is the order of cycles and the intensity of each cycle in the grief process. My husband went straight to the anger phase, I went straight to the denial phase and remained in it for a month. I didn't experience anger for over six months. That is the difference. Everyone will experience the cycles of grief and will act accordingly. Grief is grief. Some people are more private than others, but no one can hide their feelings of grief. Not even with the use of anti-depressants.