ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #28

[desert-blue]

There is no sense trying to make sense of their stories about fishing and exploring or whatever. Baby DeOrr wasn't there so it doesn't matter. What we need to be discussing is what they did all day Thursday and Friday morning. Oh wait, we can't, because they've given us absolutely nothing to discuss. Perhaps there is a reason for that? MOO.

 

[Onebest]

Imagine finding the lifeless body of a child very close to where you've been fishing. You're part of the small group the child was camping with. You've previously had bad experience(s) with the justice system & are terrified that they may try to pin the accidental death of the child on you. What do you do?
Please remember that the original searches were looking for a child who had wandered, not a child who was deliberately concealed.

They had cadaver dogs in there within a very short time period. They searched the vehicles and the tent of IR. If the child was killed in the campground either intentionally or by accident the K9s would have gone to that area.

 

[jessie]

Post on Kleins page addressing people asking him his thoughts on a reward fund for baby Deoor with interesting comments. For those not on FB he redirects questions about this to LE.

My thought....been there, done that, funds not properly accounted for, warnings to the public by Sheriff Bowerman to use caution with this families fund raising attempts, I could go on but I am not in the link looking up mood. JMO

Do they think people have forgotten that they refused Vilt's offer/suggestion of a reward last year !

 

[KatieLiz]

Imagine finding the lifeless body of a child very close to where you've been fishing. You're part of the small group the child was camping with. You've previously had bad experience(s) with the justice system & are terrified that they may try to pin the accidental death of the child on you. What do you do?
Please remember that the original searches were looking for a child who had wandered, not a child who was deliberately concealed.

This sounds like you are implying that IR found little DeOrr unresponsive, and scurried off and hid him because he had problems with law enforcement before, I don't think that IR is really capable of pulling that off. Jessica would never cover for anyone but herself.

An autopsy would show if little DeOrr tumbled down the bank or not, no need to dispose of his little body.

I believe little DeOrr deserves the love and respect that he has never had.

Yes this is totally illogical. Why would IR secretly dispose of a.deceased child that he had zero responsibility for. This is just simply illogical and impossible. He then hid him.so well he was never found, and he hid the fact he died from the parents and GGP? This theory simply.doesn't make sense. You're grasping at Straws now.

Let's get back to the evidence and the things that actually make sense. Because tgus tgeiry makes kess sense than J and Vs stories. For Deorr to accidentally die, unnoticed, in a brief 10 minute span. Then be found by a man who has no responsibility to the child, but he decides to become an accessory and commit and Indignity to a body and cover it up? All in 10 mins? And still allow the parents to call 911?

This doesn't make sense at all.

 

[The Apparition]

Imagine finding the lifeless body of a child very close to where you've been fishing. You're part of the small group the child was camping with. You've previously had bad experience(s) with the justice system & are terrified that they may try to pin the accidental death of the child on you. What do you do?
Please remember that the original searches were looking for a child who had wandered, not a child who was deliberately concealed.

Am I also tripping on acid in this scenario? That is the only way someone would decide to randomly cover up a toddler's death when they had nothing to do with it. Issac doesn't present as the smartest person but I just don't see him entrapping himself in the hypothetical scenario you paint. If something like you propose happened (it didn't) I would see someone not wanting to get in trouble just turning around and leaving, see no evil hear no evil.

Since Klein and LE have expressed doubts Deorr was ever on the mountain alive, my mind has turned towards those scenarios. I now think the 8 different versions of who was fishing, exploring, hiking, etc are all just a sideshow. I am more inclined to believe the parents hid the body before going camping and fooled the other campers into believing Deorr was there when he in fact wasn't. Perhaps GGP was in on the original plan or maybe he figured it out after not sure, but I see Issac as just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[koios]

In the case of accidental fall into the creek followed by drowning, there is insufficient culpability for anyone to decide to cover it up.

What other type of accident might have a higher degree of culpability?

 

[desert-blue]

In the case of accidental fall into the creek followed by drowning, there is insufficient culpability for anyone to decide to cover it up.

What other type of accident might have a higher degree of culpability?

Any type of accident would have a high degree of culpability if they were drunk or high.

 

[haven71]

There is no sense trying to make sense of their stories about fishing and exploring or whatever. Baby DeOrr wasn't there so it doesn't matter. What we need to be discussing is what they did all day Thursday and Friday morning. Oh wait, we can't, because they've given us absolutely nothing to discuss. Perhaps there is a reason for that? MOO.

Amen, desert-blue! You described to a "T" the frustration and the reality we're dealing with here.

 

[haven71]

Any type of accident would have a high degree of culpability if they were drunk or high.

This is true. Although it would be difficult to prove after all this time IMO. Maybe some of the evidence found by LE was drug paraphernalia. Even in that instance, though, it's not like any of the 4 would admit it was theirs. I wish LE had taken blood tests of the 4 adults, but I guess at that time there was no probable cause. To them, he was a missing toddler they hoped to find among all the perilous dangers of the campground (water to drown in, wild animals, etc).?

I would think it would make more sense for them, who are so worried about the "gossip" about their involvement, to admit there was an accident and coverup while they were impaired, as opposed to being suspected of intentionally killing their baby. So, what gives???

 

[KatieLiz]

Am I also tripping on acid in this scenario? That is the only way someone would decide to randomly cover up a toddler's death when they had nothing to do with it. Issac doesn't present as the smartest person but I just don't see him entrapping himself in the hypothetical scenario you paint. If something like you propose happened (it didn't) I would see someone not wanting to get in trouble just turning around and leaving, see no evil hear no evil.

Since Klein and LE have expressed doubts Deorr was ever on the mountain alive, my mind has turned towards those scenarios. I now think the 8 different versions of who was fishing, exploring, hiking, etc are all just a sideshow. I am more inclined to believe the parents hid the body before going camping and fooled the other campers into believing Deorr was there when he in fact wasn't. Perhaps GGP was in on the original plan or maybe he figured it out after not sure, but I see Issac as just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Yes yes yes. This this this

Side story from my life that relates to your comment: "I would see someone not wanting to get in trouble just turning around and leaving.".... very true!!

When I was 8 I shared a room with my sister who was 10. We came home from a weekend away and I found her hamster dead. My 8 year old brain thought I may be in trouble, or at the very least I didn't want to tell her and cause her upset. So I walked away and waited two hours til she discovered his body herself.

Obviously, not a human body, but same idea... pretend you didn't see it.

But regardless, I think this scenario is ridiculous and implausible...

 

[koios]

Any type of accident would have a high degree of culpability if they were drunk or high.

Yes but there is no report stating that anyone was noticeably drunk or high when LE arrived.

 

[jessie]

Am I also tripping on acid in this scenario? That is the only way someone would decide to randomly cover up a toddler's death when they had nothing to do with it. Issac doesn't present as the smartest person but I just don't see him entrapping himself in the hypothetical scenario you paint. If something like you propose happened (it didn't) I would see someone not wanting to get in trouble just turning around and leaving, see no evil hear no evil.

Since Klein and LE have expressed doubts Deorr was ever on the mountain alive, my mind has turned towards those scenarios. I now think the 8 different versions of who was fishing, exploring, hiking, etc are all just a sideshow. I am more inclined to believe the parents hid the body before going camping and fooled the other campers into believing Deorr was there when he in fact wasn't. Perhaps GGP was in on the original plan or maybe he figured it out after not sure, but I see Issac as just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I'm with you there. Been over and over and over again what could 'possibly' have happened to this little boy.

Nothing I have heard from the Thursday night to the 911 call makes any sense. I'm not one to blame parents for accidents to their
children. Young children are inquisitive, exploring little people but they don't "just disappear" never to be seen or found again.
An incident occurred sometime, somewhere, that resulted in DeOrr's disappearance. If only the people involved (family who else FGS)
could open up and be truthful and put an end to this.
I really don't know how they can live with their consciences.

 

[koios]

If 2-year old accidentally fell into creek, would child be swept downstream by the fast current only a short distance then get caught on branches or rocks?
Or be swept downstream by the fast current a long distance?

 

[neesaki]

Yes but there is no report stating that anyone was noticeably drunk or high when LE arrived.

True, but since according to LE their timeline is a lie, if they were drunk or high it may have been earlier and already worn off.

Then I've always wondered about the extraneous (?) events Klein mentioned concerning GGP and IR at the campground . What was that all about?

 

[KatieLiz]

If 2-year old accidentally fell into creek, would child be swept downstream by the fast current only a short distance then get caught on branches or rocks?
Or be swept downstream by the fast current a long distance?

I will direct you to go read the media thread and anything surrounding the creek search by LE. They have done extensive searches- far far down stream. As well as turning every rock and branch in the creek. They have checked everywhere he could have been snagged. And checked downstream in case he was swept with the current. They are experts and have stated that they have checked that creek thoroughly and he is not in it.

 

[SubtleGrace]

I'm not saying this is happening in this case, but sometimes defense attorneys hire "social media" people to post various "theories" around the internet in order to muddy the jury pool and stir up reasonable doubt (trying to see who "bites' the most on which theory), don'tcha know? Best not to get too heated up about nonsensical logic...

 

[misty48]

I will direct you to go read the media thread and anything surrounding the creek search by LE. They have done extensive searches- far far down stream. As well as turning every rock and branch in the creek. They have checked everywhere he could have been snagged. And checked downstream in case he was swept with the current. They are experts and have stated that they have checked that creek thoroughly and he is not in it.

There was a case in the UK a couple of years ago in which a 12 year old girl was reported missing from her grandmother's house. Her body was found a week later (due to the smell) in the loft of the same house which had been searched on 3 occasions by police & cadaver dogs. It was down to human failure that the body was not recovered earlier - the dog handler bore the brunt of the criticism.
Please don't ever believe that, just because the experts have stated that Deorr isn't somewhere in the creek or its surroundings, his body isn't actually there, hidden from sight.

 

[neesaki]

There was a case in the UK a couple of years ago in which a 12 year old girl was reported missing from her grandmother's house. Her body was found a week later (due to the smell) in the loft of the same house which had been searched on 3 occasions by police & cadaver dogs. It was down to human failure that the body was not recovered earlier - the dog handler bore the brunt of the criticism.
Please don't ever believe that, just because the experts have stated that Deorr isn't somewhere in the creek or its surroundings, his body isn't actually there, hidden from sight.

I admit there's a slim chance that he's somewhere up there or even just outside the area and hasn't been found. With at least one caveat , The possibility he was carried there by one or more of those four people. If he was just lost, there would be no reason for them to always be changing their story about where they were when and what they were doing.

I do do wish there was continued searching, until they do find him. But that they aren't searching there anymore says a lot too, they have solid reasons to believe he's not there. Unlike other cases such as Jared Atadero and Dennis Martin in which they had no reason to suspect the parents. Jmo

 

[misty48]

I admit there's a slim chance that he's somewhere up there or even just outside the area and hasn't been found. With at least one caveat , The possibility he was carried there by one or more of those four people. If he was just lost, there would be no reason for them to always be changing their story about where they were when and what they were doing.

I do do wish there was continued searching, until they do find him. But that they aren't searching there anymore says a lot too, they have solid reasons to believe he's not there. Unlike other cases such as Jared Atadero and Dennis Martin in which they had no reason to suspect the parents. Jmo

I have difficult believing Deorr was never at the campsite. Didn't the dogs scent him in the immediate area? Why take the blanket, cup & monkey but not the child with them? Such an assertion makes no sense on the face of it,

 

[SubtleGrace]

There was a case in the UK a couple of years ago in which a 12 year old girl was reported missing from her grandmother's house. Her body was found a week later (due to the smell) in the loft of the same house which had been searched on 3 occasions by police & cadaver dogs. It was down to human failure that the body was not recovered earlier - the dog handler bore the brunt of the criticism.
Please don't ever believe that, just because the experts have stated that Deorr isn't somewhere in the creek or its surroundings, his body isn't actually there, hidden from sight.

Her body had been hidden at the neighbors, then brought back after the initial searches, only to be found during the last search, IIRC.