ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #29

[koios]

MOO this is one of the best questions asked in the KIC Q and A session:
"Q: I don't think I've ever seen this question but to me, it is a huge red flag: Doesn't it seem odd that little Deorr's father states something like he hauled down the road in his truck to get a cell signal? It seems to me that, if a small child was thought to be wandering around, he would be afraid of driving too fast and running the child over."
Source http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...round-10-July-2015-19&p=12328788#post12328788
(The answer given was: "Again - that is one statement made. There are 8 others as well. It depends on what statement you want to believe.")

 

[neesaki]

<modsnip> You think referring to the suspects/poi's statements as stories is unprofessional, should Klein refer to them as stone cold lead pipe locks? I mean we have such a collection of accurate historians on our hands, who is this trumped up PI to question the veracity of the words of these pillars of society? They are stories because the suspects are story tellers. Literally nothing they say is to be believed since they are suspects in a presumed homicide, <modsnip> criminals often LIE.

As also could apply to child and pedophiles who prey upon little children. JMO

 

[TxJan1971]

<modsnip>

B&UBM
Unless the "professional" believes, in his/her opinion, that one or all of the "Leadore Four" making a statement is telling a "LIE," then "STORY" would be considered a synonym, and a far more softer word for the word "LIE" as used by LE/FBI/Bonneville/Vilt, etc.

Based on what Klein has provided us in the form of media clips or "snippets" or written statements - IMO he has demonstrated without having to say a word that the Leadore Four's own words out of their own mouths and written on paper do not match one another! He has also stated countless times that he has been given 9 different "versions" of "what happened" (aka stories or lies or BS ad infinitum). Klein also stated that GGP had given "four different versions" of "what happened," Jessica had given countless different versions as well. There were similar statements made about IR to a lesser degree than the others. Based on what we have been presented thus far from the Leadore Four, IMO, Klein has every good reason to use the word "story" to describe all the variations from any number of versions previously told.

40 Synonyms for &#8220;Lie&#8221;
...
<snipped for relevance>

#36. Story: a lie, or a rumor

http://www.dailywritingtips.com/40-synonyms-for-lie/

FWIW, Bowerman came right out and said they had "lied" as well as saying countless times that they were "less than truthful." Bowerman told us the FBI said they "were less than truthful," Bonneville felt they were "less than truthful on their polys given and concurred with the FBI and Bowerman. Vilt came right out and said they both lied to him. Are they also all unprofessional? Wouldn't they be far more unprofessional since they used the word LIED versus "story"? Just curious...

~~

Bowerman: 'There have been so many red flags from the different changes in their stories. I know something happened up there and I'm pretty sure they know where he (DeOrr Kunz Jr.) is at. We just need that one piece of evidence to put the pressure on, and we're looking for it.'
https://m.facebook.com/397812250250...42164.93718.397812250250751/1092477824117520/

Bowerman:
"They're not able to tell the same story twice because they've told so many stories, you know, getting changes in the story all the time," he said.
http://legacy.ktvb.com/story/news/c...parents-suspects-his-disappearance/79301014/\

Bowerman:
&#8220;We&#8217;ve interviewed them multiple times, and every time there are changes to parts of their story,&#8221; Bowerman said. &#8220;The little things all change every time we speak with them.&#8221;
http://www.idahostatejournal.com/me...cle_156ed875-b71c-57e6-b472-eea0258a890e.html

Bowerman
"We know that the parents aren't telling the us the truth and they know that we know that they're lying. I know that they know where the little boy is and what happened to him"
http://idahostatejournal.com/member...cle_b4d359f2-0b13-55d2-9aec-178b359a5683.html

VILT:
&#8220;I told both of you that if I felt that you were not telling the truth, stalling me, or otherwise misleading me, that I would withdraw from the investigation. In my professional opinion, both of you lied and misrepresented the true facts that could solve the mystery of your missing son.&#8221;
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/former-kunz-p-i/

Klein Investigations and Consulting Bob is a Person of Interest and a suspect - his stories do not match.

 

[Sillybilly]

Comments/questions from the public on a social media page are NOT fact and are considered rumor.

Websleuths does not engage in rumors. Please stop discussing them.

:tyou:

 

[neesaki]

Comments/questions from the public on a social media page are NOT fact and are considered rumor.

Websleuths does not engage in rumors. Please stop discussing them.


:tyou:

Sillybilly, is it ok to discuss possible other scenarios, other than accidental death or homicide by the parents ? As in referring to my earier post #461?

It's just that's it's been a strong suspicion of mine from the beginning. I can't seem to get it out of my mind. If it's not ok, I understand. TIA

 

[KatieLiz]

Klein has acknowledged that there was a reported trailer issue. He didn't go into detail about the issue but had the question not been asked no-one would have been aware of the potential issue.
I offered that as a possible reason for the purchase of additional fuel not as an alibi for anything. Since nobody can come up with another explanation other than "everything they say is a lie & they must have travelled somewhere else" I can only let people decide for themselves whether my explanation is plausible, bearing in mind we have no idea of the entire contents of the statements made by the 4 adults to LE & Klein. As far as I can see, the issue has no relevance to the actual disappearance.

How about we remember that LE discredited these SUSPECTS, not us here at WS.

You are twisting what Klein had said. He point blank responded that there may have been a trailer issue according to what story you want to believe. Yet I have never heard J or V or GGP say they had an issue and had to switch who was towing the trailer. This is simply people trying to provide them an alibi.

I will go with what LE, 2 PI's and the FBI have said, as well as what I can conclude based on all of the suspects statements and interviews.

 

[Sillybilly]

Sillybilly, is it ok to discuss possible other scenarios, other than accidental death or homicide by the parents ? As in referring to my earier post #461?

It's just that's it's been a strong suspicion of mine from the beginning. I can't seem to get it out of my mind. If it's not ok, I understand. TIA

Hey neesaki ... Thanks for asking.

Theorizing, and speculation within reason, is fine as long as it is apparent that is what it is, and not an opinion stated as fact.

 

[TxJan1971]

Thank you for clarifying that there has been no official source for the alleged event (saves me a lot of time trying to find it). However, there was an issue with the trailer, which Klein confirmed. Again, to refer to statements as "stories" is unprofessional imo - the event either happened or it didn't but it would explain the need for additional fuel. Possibly it wasn't mentioned by MSM/LE publicly because it appears to have no relevance to events the following day. MSM didn't report that IR wasn't at home ready to go camping when the others turned up at his house - because it wasn't deemed relevant.

BBM

You stated previously you liked to keep things factual so I wanted to clear this up.

1. Unless you are a reporter in cognito, I think it's a wee bit presumptuous to state you know MSM "didn't report" something "because it wasn't deemed relevant." How exactly does one know what a reporter deems is relevant or not to report?

2. #1 doesn't really matter because your statement bolded above is not true. MSM "did" indeed report that IR wasn't home ready to go camping.
(Note: I am also looking for a second MSM statement that I seem to recall also stated IR wasn't home and will add it here if/when I find it.)

~~~
Chelsea Brentzel: Even more strange, during the day Isaac is nowhere to be found.

4:04
Jessica: My Grandpa went to Isaac’s house—three, four, five times, and he wasn’t home. My Grandpa said, “Let’s swing by his house one more time before we head out of town. If he’s not there, he’s not going” and he was there the last time.

http://m.localnews8.com/news/newsline-special-search-for-deorr-kunz-one-year-later/40453144

 

[Russian Blue]

Is Isabel Celis's name on the FBI list?

Who is Isabel Celis?

 

[jessie]

The report from post #456 above - just wanted to thank TxJan1971 for transcribing that interview and others.
Great and invaluable work done there! Thanks :clap:

 

[misty48]

BBM

You stated previously you liked to keep things factual so I wanted to clear this up.

1. Unless you are a reporter in cognito, I think it's a wee bit presumptuous to state you know MSM "didn't report" something "because it wasn't deemed relevant." How exactly does one know what a reporter deems is relevant or not to report?

2. #1 doesn't really matter because your statement bolded above is not true. MSM "did" indeed report that IR wasn't home ready to go camping.
(Note: I am also looking for a second MSM statement that I seem to recall also stated IR wasn't home and will add it here if/when I find it.)

~~~
Chelsea Brentzel: Even more strange, during the day Isaac is nowhere to be found.

4:04
Jessica: My Grandpa went to Isaac&#8217;s house&#8212;three, four, five times, and he wasn&#8217;t home. My Grandpa said, &#8220;Let&#8217;s swing by his house one more time before we head out of town. If he&#8217;s not there, he&#8217;s not going&#8221; and he was there the last time.

http://m.localnews8.com/news/newsline-special-search-for-deorr-kunz-one-year-later/40453144

The statement re. IR from JMA was given by her in a TV interview & was not contained in any previous REPORT of her version of events on the Thursday. It AFAIK this information had never previously been reported by MSM, if such information had been deemed relevant enough to be released by any of the investigating teams. IMO.

 

[misty48]

Who is Isabel Celis?

A six year old Tuscon girl who went missing from her bedroom overnight in 2012 and hasn't been found to date. Her case is interesting if you care to google it.

 

[misty48]

Comments/questions from the public on a social media page are NOT fact and are considered rumor.

Websleuths does not engage in rumors. Please stop discussing them.

:tyou:

Are we therefore to dismiss any answers posted by a member of Klein Investigations to those questions raised by the public, as they too have been posted on Social Media?

 

[neesaki]

Why did IR do a factory reset on his phone when he was on a "camping trip"? Why did IR lawyer up so quickly? I think it was more than just because he'd had a run in or two with the law before. I just don't buy it. What did he need to hide so badly while he was out in nature on a "camping trip" ? I'm sure the fish could care less about what was on his phone. Except I highly doubt he did much fishing..... same for GGP and the other two low-lifes that didn't deserve to be parents.

Let's not forget that VDK came right out and admitted he hated camping. Who goes camping when they hate camping? I wonder what no-last-name J thinks of camping? Not much, I imagine. I don't believe the two of them were even really together at that point, I think they were already going their separate ways because IIRC, we later learned that no-last-name J was already in a relationship with another man.

Whatever IR was hiding I strongly suspect had something to do with the same thing that all four of them were and are still hiding. I'm just not going to go along with an innocent accident, never really did. There's no way anyone would go to the extent of cover up this group has undertaken, over anything "innocent" or an "accident". It has to have been something really bad. In fact, It's my belief that there was nothing even approaching "innocent" about what was going on up there, but instead something very, very sinister.

Maybe there's actually something to that man with the dirty, bawling baby in a black truck, which would explain VDK's bizarre comments about him driving a black truck. Maybe the child was disguised with a wig or a hat, which could explain why the clerk couldn't tell if it was a boy or a girl. And if that was Deorr, his sperm and egg donor (not calling them parents anymore) never had plans to get him back. Thus explaining, no national hotline, no publicity, no reward. Of course if he's deceased, they also never had plans to get him back.

No, this wasn't your everyday, ordinary "camping trip". I guess I'd better stop talking at this point, except for one last thing. I hope and pray the FBI are all over this. JMHO

 

[Maggie_Mayz]

Why did IR do a factory reset on his phone when he was on a "camping trip"? Why did IR lawyer up so quickly? I think it was more than just because he'd had a run in or two with the law before. I just don't buy it. What did he need to hide so badly while he was out in nature on a "camping trip" ? I'm sure the fish could care less about what was on his phone. Except I highly doubt he did much fishing..... same for GGP and the other two low-lifes that didn't deserve to be parents.

Let's not forget that VDK came right out and admitted he hated camping. Who goes camping when they hate camping? I wonder what no-last-name J thinks of camping? Not much, I imagine. I don't believe the two of them were even really together at that point, I think they were already going their separate ways because IIRC, we later learned that no-last-name J was already in a relationship with another man.

Whatever IR was hiding I strongly suspect had something to do with the same thing that all four of them were and are still hiding. I'm just not going to go along with an innocent accident, never really did. There's no way anyone would go to the extent of cover up this group has undertaken, over anything "innocent" or an "accident". It has to have been something really bad. In fact, It's my belief that there was nothing even approaching "innocent" about what was going on up there, but instead something very, very sinister.

Maybe there's actually something to that man with the dirty, bawling baby in a black truck, which would explain VDK's bizarre comments about him driving a black truck. Maybe the child was disguised with a wig or a hat, which could explain why the clerk couldn't tell if it was a boy or a girl. And if that was Deorr, his sperm and egg donor (not calling them parents anymore) never had plans to get him back. Thus explaining, no national hotline, no publicity, no reward.

No, this wasn't your everyday, ordinary "camping trip". I guess I'd better stop talking at this point, except for one last thing. I hope and pray the FBI are all over this. JMHO

I always felt that maybe it was V who had him and was going somewhere to do something to him. Maybe had him disgusied so there was a thought of abduction when there really was not one. JMO

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[neesaki]

Is Isabel Celis's name on the FBI list?

Just doing a little reading on the subject, apparently it has to do with whether it is an interstate crime, versus within state which falls under the local jurisdiction. Idk, it's confusing to me, for one thing, how do they know ? Do they have to have solid evidence of it being an interstate crime ? Do we have any verified ex-FBI agents on board here? Or perhaps a verified attorney could help us with the question.

 

[KatieLiz]

Are we therefore to dismiss any answers posted by a member of Klein Investigations to those questions raised by the public, as they too have been posted on Social Media?

Go read the TOS here. We can discuss anything Klein posts but not rumours in the comment sections from random Internet readers. If Klein said "yes they unhooked the trailer and then Vernal towed it" then that would be confirmation of fact. But this is not what he said.

 

[kimi_SFC]

Who is Isabel Celis?

Isabel's case has had extensive interest and coverage here on WS. Here's the link to her 25th thread:

AZ AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #25

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...abel-Mercedes-Celis-6-Tucson-20-April-2012-25

:candle:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[misty48]

Go read the TOS here. We can discuss anything Klein posts but not rumours in the comment sections from random Internet readers. If Klein said "yes they unhooked the trailer and then Vernal towed it" then that would be confirmation of fact. But this is not what he said.

I read the TOS before posting the question. My issue is that PK is not the only person who posts responses to questions on behalf of Team 7. PI's have no more legal jurisdiction in this case than any member of the public and for legal reasons LE may not be able to counter any information the PI's post on Social Media. I think the matter is relevant when the PI's move from "we are now entering the prosecution phase" to "this has now become a cold case" .

 

[KatieLiz]

I read the TOS before posting the question. My issue is that PK is not the only person who posts responses to questions on behalf of Team 7. PI's have no more legal jurisdiction in this case than any member of the public and for legal reasons LE may not be able to counter any information the PI's post on Social Media. I think the matter is relevant when the PI's move from "we are now entering the prosecution phase" to "this has now become a cold case" .

I don't even understand what you're getting at- but the answer is if a post comes from Klein's KIC account it can be discussed. We can't discuss comments from his followers that are rumour and unconfirmed.