ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #29

[koios]

How do you know that's what she is referring to? She's incredibly vague. You are making an assumption.

By listening to the question and the answer, the actual words, and the context, MOO.

 

[KatieLiz]

When she says "We both did" she is referring them both, after searching for 20 minutes, realising that he was not there in the area of the campground.
Source 5:14 https://youtu.be/mwM1oG3z358

I have just watched this again. Nate says to Vernal- (paraphrase) You were in the truck. So Jessica noticed him missing?

No we both did. (Full stop. Then goes on to explain nate saying "you were in the truck" by saying....) after 20 minutes of looking for him is when I got in my truck.

They clearly answer that they both discovered him missing.

 

[Maggie_Mayz]

I really like this comment. It brings up a good point-- if this child is legitimately missing, why would the parents guess and make up "maybe" scenarios.

Let's just imagine (God forbid) one of our toddler's actually wanders away/goes missing... would we then try to tell officers a bunch of possible scenarios? Or would I be freaking out and saying he was JUST HERE
!! where's my baby?? find my baby!! I don't know where my baby is!

I think the latter. I surely wouldn't provide scenarios for his disappearance, like an abduction, and then contradict them. I would be telling the police to do their job and find my baby....


And I NEVER would have left that campsite until I found him. Because if he was truly missing there would be no where else for him to be. (The parents said themselves they would notice a stranger driving into the campground)

But then again... if I was guilty, I would probably act "somewhat" along the lines as these parents. Except they appear to be much better liars than I am...

Thanks, I mean why change stories if they firmly believe one thing versus another.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[koios]

BBM
I know which statement you are referring to and am looking for that specific one - but here's a similar one. When I find the one we're thinking of, I'll add it or post it.


The parents claimed the boy disappeared when the couple and the male friend went on a short hike to fish a creek next to the spot where they had set up at Timber Creek Campground. After showing the couple to the creek, the friend split off to fish a separate section of the water. Kunz and Mitchell later told authorities they thought their son was with the grandfather and the grandfather later said he saw the boy trailing after the trio of adults.

http://www.postregister.com/article...est/2016/06/25/heavy-hearts-search-continues#

Thanks, if "the grandfather later said he saw the boy trailing after the trio of adults" is fully accurate that would be an important advance, to know which direction the child walked. But I don't know whether it is accurate or not.

 

[Maggie_Mayz]

Me too.

Me 3.

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[KatieLiz]

Thanks, if "the grandfather later said he saw the boy trailing after the trio of adults" is fully accurate that would be an important advance, to know which direction the child walked. But I don't know whether it is accurate or not.

But LE have said the grandfather has given multiple accounts as well.

Therefore none of his statements can be considered reliable either.

For all we know NONE of this really happened.

 

[koios]

I have just watched this again. Nate says to Vernal- (paraphrase) You were in the truck. So Jessica noticed him missing?

No we both did. (Full stop. Then goes on to explain nate saying "you were in the truck" by saying....) after 20 minutes of looking for him is when I got in my truck.

They clearly answer that they both discovered him missing.

The question was
"You (V) were in the truck, so was it you (J) who first realised, 'oh no, he's not here' ?"

 

[KatieLiz]

The question was
"You (V) were in the truck, so was it you (J) who first realised, 'oh no, he's not here' ?"

Hence why I said I was paraphrasing. No need to correct me when I clearly stated that. The gist of it was the same and the answer remains the same. I paraphrased since I'm on my phone and not on WiFi right now I couldn't rematch the video more than once to transcribe word for word. Your correction to my comment in no way changes the answer being that they both discovered him missing. Then they search for 20 mins before V heads to the truck.

<modsnip>

 

[koios]

AFAIK they were both recorded speaking to separate 911 operators at the same time, not to each other. Perhaps you could direct me to the part in the phone recording which proves otherwise.
I am not aware that anyone has released details of the duration of JA's call to 911.
Can anyone explain why it would take 16 mins to travel 1'5 miles on that particular road - slower than an average running speed?

Duration of J's call was about 4minutes 37seconds
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...-released-my-2-year-old-son-we-cant-find-him/

 

[koios]

You are aware that numerous sources have described the road as deeply rutted, and filled with rocks. I read more than once the road was passable at about 15 mph with a truck, so as is often the case you are presenting scenarios that are not possible.

Assuming average speed 15mph it would take 6 minutes to drive 1.5 miles.

 

[KatieLiz]

Assuming average speed 15mph it would take 6 minutes to drive 1.5 miles.

Yep. That is correct.

And 6 minutes is 2 minutes longer than Js phone call. And Vernal's phone call took place 2 mins after Jessicas. So at 6 mins driving time V could not have been 1.5 miles away if they have isolated him and J talking in the background of one of the 911 calls.

Apparition is correct in his comment that this scenario is not possible.

 

[The Apparition]

Assuming average speed 15mph it would take 6 minutes to drive 1.5 miles.

Thank you so much, I own a computer but not a calculator and have never been able to find a free online calculator. I think we would all be lost if you didn't do this math for us. I found one of the sources I was trying to remember so here is a quote with link below.

It takes about 30 minutes to safely travel the roughly 6 miles of rutted and rock-dimpled dirt road that leads to the campsite.

Based upon this article that puts the speed at around 12 MPH, which is probably why the Sheriff said the road couldn't handle more that 15 MPH (he might not be as good at math as you are). So yeah under the best case scenario it would take Vernal 6 to 7.5 minutes to drive 1.5 miles. Bearing in mind he didn't actually drive anywhere to call 911 why does this matter?

http://www.postregister.com/article...est/2016/06/25/heavy-hearts-search-continues#

 

[KatieLiz]

Thank you so much, I own a computer but not a calculator and have never been able to find a free online calculator. I think we would all be lost if you didn't do this math for us. I found one of the sources I was trying to remember so here is a quote with link below.

It takes about 30 minutes to safely travel the roughly 6 miles of rutted and rock-dimpled dirt road that leads to the campsite.

Based upon this article that puts the speed at around 12 MPH, which is probably why the Sheriff said the road couldn't handle more that 15 MPH (he might not be as good at math as you are). So yeah under the best case scenario it would take Vernal 6 to 7.5 minutes to drive 1.5 miles. Bearing in mind he didn't actually drive anywhere to call 911 why does this matter?

http://www.postregister.com/article...est/2016/06/25/heavy-hearts-search-continues#

:laughing:

 

[TxJan1971]

Using the numerous released KIC videos and/or press videos, can anyone post even one example, of a fact said in an early statement being changed in a later statement by the same person?

BBM
Ask and thou shall receive. Here's your one example:

VDK Discrepancy

July 13, 2015
Direct Quote from VDK

VDK:
It was 2:36 when she called and I was in the truck hauling down to the road trying to get service because I didn't think one bar would get it. So she got very very lucky. I was blessed that she was able to get service because I didn't think&#8230;I didn't want to try and risk getting half way through my&#8230;talking to 911 and have it cut off. So I went down to where I knew I could get a little service, about a half mile down the road.

Versus:

VDK Written Statement:


VDK:
Dirt road looking at my phone till I seen I had 2 bars of 3 g service. I slammed on the brakes. I was about 1.5 miles from camp. I call 911 and told them I lost my son but couldn&#8217;t remember the name of where I was. I

Unknown date. (Note: If Klein asked VDK to write this statement, it had to have been in November 2015 when he first came on board. If this is a LE statement that Klein used, then the date could be early on in the investigation. My money is Klein asked VDK to write this but stand to be corrected if otherwise.)


Corroborating the discrepancy:

Klein:
The Cell Phone Impact study was able to determine that Vernal Kunz&#8217;s testimony was fabricated. As well it was determined that Vernal Kunz&#8217;s testimony that he drove 1.5 miles to get a cell signal was not truthful.
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/07/private-investigator-issues-lengthy-report-deorr-kunz-case/

~~
Since VDK's oral and written statement of how far he actually "hauled" down the road (1/2 mile vs 1.5 miles) is untruthful, and we are not privy to more specific details as to where VDK actually was when he phoned 911 (eg pings/phone records, etc.), there is no telling how far he actually traveled or IF he even traveled for that matter. Therefore, it seems to me that any mathematical theories presented to explain away or justify how he possibly could have returned back quickly enough to enable JMA to "empty her pockets into his truck after her 911 call ended" would be inaccurate and/or mere speculation (IMO) unless and until more factual information is released. JMO

 

[merlgerl]

I've often wondered why he is Deorr J. Kunz JR. when his father's name is Vernal Deorr Kunz.

 

[KatieLiz]

I've often wondered why he is Deorr J. Kunz JR. when his father's name is Vernal Deorr Kunz.

I believe we only refer to him as VDK so as not to confuse with Deorr Jr. I believe VDK,s legal name is Deorr Vernal Kunz. That's how he is listed in the Klein lawsuit on the Idaho Court Records website. His dad is listed as Deorr Dennis in the lawsuit but Dennis Deorr in other files.

 

[TxJan1971]

How much faith should be placed in polygraphs? If you look at the case of the McStay family (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McStay_family_murder) you will see that the eventual accused murderer passed a polygraph test. LE also incorrectly assessed that the family were not dead & had fled to Mexico despite the absence of positive evidence to the contrary. So, to answer both your & CoverMeCagney's questions re. polygraphs & if FBI/LE have VDK & JA horribly wrong, the McStay case demonstrates both.

<snip>

BBM (and snipped for relevance)

Keep in mind that VDK and JMA's own Attorney Browning surprisingly wrote that he thinks polygraphs are "remarkably accurate!"

"1. The results of any polygraph test are inadmissible in court. I have found polygraph tests to be remarkably accurate, but the courts have, for policy reasons, refused to allow the results of these tests to be admitted into evidence."

Further, Browning states that:

"I have come to insist that my client get the benefit of a dismissal in the event he takes and passes a polygraph test at the request of the prosecutor."
http://abrowninglaw.blogspot.com/2015/08/polygraphs-in-criminal-justice-system.html
~~~
I wonder what Browning insists from the prosecutor if his clients don't pass but rather fail nine total polys between them (+/-)? Does he still feel polys are "remarkably accurate" after 9 fails or does that maybe just not apply to these "kids?" Just something to ponder...

 

[merlgerl]

I checked the Idaho repository as well it shows the Klein lawsuit as the only place where he is named Deorr Vernal. All his other cases he is Vernal Deorr. His dad is named, not including the akas in parenthesis, Deorr, except for the Klein case which has him as Deorr Dennis. http://politicsrusprinciple.tumblr.com/page/103 little more than halfway down the page is Deorr's genealogy and it shows his father is Vernal Deorr Jr. being named after HIS grandfather Vernal Deorr Sr.

 

[ZooSleuth]

Thank you so much, I own a computer but not a calculator and have never been able to find a free online calculator. I think we would all be lost if you didn't do this math for us. I found one of the sources I was trying to remember so here is a quote with link below.

It takes about 30 minutes to safely travel the roughly 6 miles of rutted and rock-dimpled dirt road that leads to the campsite.

Based upon this article that puts the speed at around 12 MPH, which is probably why the Sheriff said the road couldn't handle more that 15 MPH (he might not be as good at math as you are). So yeah under the best case scenario it would take Vernal 6 to 7.5 minutes to drive 1.5 miles. Bearing in mind he didn't actually drive anywhere to call 911 why does this matter?

http://www.postregister.com/article...est/2016/06/25/heavy-hearts-search-continues#

Whenever I'm about to start banging my head on the wall you always save the day with a hilarious and perfectly timed post. Thank you.

 

[KatieLiz]

I checked the Idaho repository as well it shows the Klein lawsuit as the only place where he is named Deorr Vernal. All his other cases he is Vernal Deorr. His dad is named, not including the akas in parenthesis, Deorr, except for the Klein case which has him as Deorr Dennis.

Yep I noticed that too. Curious.

Just another "huh?" in an already confusing case.

Then again, they could also just be ignorant about how the names Jr/Sr are supposed to work.