ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #31

[UrsulaWrenn]

plus the prior (?) sheriff’s analysis which, I’m paraphrasing but not by much, one parent was given a total of seven polygraphs and the other five, and nobody they’ve seen has ever come close to doing as badly on a polygraph as Jessica, who could barely pass the baseline question ‘What is your name?’

Hmmm..... It does make me wonder if there were drugs involved. When I was their ages, I think I would've wanted some "good stuff" if my child were missing. Also, if they bought something illegal in town it would explain why they were gone so long and their inability to give an honest answer.

I'll try to find more info on the polygraphs and the answers they gave.

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

Which truck was the blood found on? Was it ever proven to be human blood?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Thank-you! I'll look to see if I can find Klein's list.

I don't know if it would be strange for the parents to want sex or not. Certainly they would want to comfort and be comforted by each other, and the instinctual drive to replace a lost child might be very high indeed -which is probably why we see baby booms after natural disasters.
I think it might also make sense for them to want the intimacy, but want to avoid a pregnancy at any cost, thus the nature of their reported purchase. But, as I've never (Thank the Heavens) been there, I just don't know...and I don't want to judge those who are there without all the facts.

It's not even about what they bought, for me. It's the fact they were in a shopping mall, laughing hahaha, while other people searched for their son.... just beyond belief. Did they not stop and think what the public perception of that would look like, notwithstanding the gut wrenching trauma they should have been going through? Laughing? That is NOT the action of grieving and panicking parents, in my opinion. From Mimosa's link:

After talking with FBI within days of their son missing, the parents then went straight to a place called Spencer, located at a local mall to purchase a Clone my Willy ...a self dildo maker. The store clerk called LE , claiming the parents were in great spirits and laughing and thought it seemed odd given the fact.

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

It's not even about what they bought, for me. It's the fact they were in a shopping mall, laughing hahaha, while other people searched for their son.... just beyond belief. Did they not stop and think what the public perception of that would look like, notwithstanding the gut wrenching trauma they should have been going through? Laughing? That is NOT the action of grieving and panicking parents, in my opinion. From Mimosa's link:

After talking with FBI within days of their son missing, the parents then went straight to a place called Spencer, located at a local mall to purchase a Clone my Willy ...a self dildo maker. The store clerk called LE , claiming the parents were in great spirits and laughing and thought it seemed odd given the fact.

I hear what you're saying. I do agree it looks bad for them. But everyone grieves differently, and people do very strange things when they're under high stress.

To me, the fact a store clerk called law enforcement to report two adults shopping is more evidence of just how much stress everyone was feeling, and what strange things they do.

 

[ReadySet]

I doubt they were trying to have another child. Not likely. Jessica left her first family, her husband and children, when the youngest was only 8 mos. old. She was having an affair with Vernal at the time. She wasn't much of a mother.
JMO

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

She / They let their inexperience and / or lack of concern show when they allowed a two-year-old to walk back to camp alone. That was a (probably) fatal mistake for the baby -and both parents well know it.

But everyone who has children has failed in some regard, somewhere. I have four children -all grown now- and I made plenty of mistakes and did plenty of things wrong. I don't want to throw stones when I'm unable to cast the beam from my own eye.

Right here, this moment, no one knows for certain what happened. If LE had proof the parents did wrong, those parents would not be out shopping -they would be in custody. Until then "free to go" means free to do pretty much whatever they want, regardless how outsiders think it makes them look.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

She / They let their inexperience and / or lack of concern show when they allowed a two-year-old to walk back to camp alone. That was a (probably) fatal mistake for the baby -and both parents well know it.

But everyone who has children has failed in some regard, somewhere. I have four children -all grown now- and I made plenty of mistakes and did plenty of things wrong. I don't want to throw stones when I'm unable to cast the beam from my own eye.

Right here, this moment, no one knows for certain what happened. If LE had proof the parents did wrong, those parents would not be out shopping -they would be in custody. Until then "free to go" means free to do pretty much whatever they want, regardless how outsiders think it makes them look.

Don’t assume the “walking back to grandpa” story is true, very little else that came out of their mouths is... and iirc grandpa initially refuted that it even happened that way

One of my early thoughts was that grandpa had moved his truck and reversed into DeOrr while they were all drunk the night before. Perhaps allowed him to sleep it off and woke up to find him dead. In the hungover confusion they concocted a plan before calling police, but weren’t quite clever enough to come up with a watertight explanation and then got caught out lying too many times.

What was it grandpa let slip in his interview, something like “what’s done is done” and then talked about getting on with a funeral?

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

Don’t assume the “walking back to grandpa” story is true, very little else that came out of their mouths is... and iirc grandpa initially refuted that it even happened that way

I agree - we don't know what happened. But as I understand it, the story told by everyone to LEO was that the child was there, and running to follow parents is a very typical thing for a two-year-old to do. Considering the other confabulations they came up with all seem a bit...fantastical...that version is the most realistic I've seen so far.

One of my early thoughts was that grandpa had moved his truck and reversed into DeOrr while they were all drunk the night before. Perhaps allowed him to sleep it off and woke up to find him dead. In the hungover confusion they concocted a plan before calling police, but weren’t quite clever enough to come up with a watertight explanation and then got caught out lying too many times.

Any one of them could've done that...but why hide it? Just because they were drinking? I don't know...it seems a stretch, but certainly possible.

What was it grandpa let slip in his interview, something like “what’s done is done” and then talked about getting on with a funeral?

Yeah; that's a bit weird. I'm not sure what in the world to think about that. Also, in his interviews the man throws a strange vibe, IMO. Could just be the medications and such, though.... I need to give that a lot more thought.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Any one of them could've done that...but why hide it? Just because they were drinking? I don't know...it seems a stretch, but .

The reason I suggested Grandpa is that I think he’s the only one that all the others would protect, eg if Isaac had done it V&J would have reported it.

Anyway, I’m not 100% convinced DeOrr even made it to the campsite. The journey there took longer than it should have and they apparently stopped off at least twice to buy phone chargers and god knows what else. Then there were the reports Katy mentioned about him being in a truck and in the store, which it seems are untrue.

Can anyone recall how long the journey should’ve taken vs how long it actually took?

Too many strange and suspicious events, and that usually means something is very wrong.

 

[TobyWong*]

The reason I suggested Grandpa is that I think he’s the only one that all the others would protect, eg if Isaac had done it V&J would have reported it.

Anyway, I’m not 100% convinced DeOrr even made it to the campsite. The journey there took longer than it should have and they apparently stopped off at least twice to buy phone chargers and god knows what else. Then there were the reports Katy mentioned about him being in a truck and in the store, which it seems are untrue.

Can anyone recall how long the journey should’ve taken vs how long it actually took?

Too many strange and suspicious events, and that usually means something is very wrong.

Good question about how long it should've taken vs how long it did take. Imo

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

The reason I suggested Grandpa is that I think he’s the only one that all the others would protect, eg if Isaac had done it V&J would have reported it.

I do agree they might've protected Grandpa. But would they extend "protecting Grandpa" so far as to protect his friend? I think you're probably right they wouldn't; I think they would've turned him in IF they really believed he did it. I'm not so sure, though, they would've pointed fingers if they weren't certain.

Anyway, I’m not 100% convinced DeOrr even made it to the campsite. The journey there took longer than it should have and they apparently stopped off at least twice to buy phone chargers and god knows what else. Then there were the reports Katy mentioned about him being in a truck and in the store, which it seems are untrue.

Can anyone recall how long the journey should’ve taken vs how long it actually took?

Too many strange and suspicious events, and that usually means something is very wrong.

I agree that can mean something very wrong. It can also just mean a group of inexperienced, unprepared people bumbling through the day.

It's my understanding Grandpa wanted to go camping -and I figure he wanted to go alone. He wanted to sit in his chair, drink his whiskey, fish his favorite spots...and if he died doing it, he died happy. Then his daughter suggested / insisted his grandkids go -with the great grand...and he might not have been happy about that at all. He might've invited the friend to act as a bit of a buffer so he wouldn't have to spend time with his family much.

Those kind of tensions lead to failures to communicate...which can lead to all kinds of conflicting stories and bad information at times when getting it right is absolutely crucial.

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

What was it grandpa let slip in his interview, something like “what’s done is done” and then talked about getting on with a funeral?

I wrote out a long post, but then lost it. Maybe I'll try again later, but probably won't remember most of what I tried to say.

Did anyone else catch a whiff of victim blaming from Grandpa's interviews?

I got the impression he held a rather low opinion of his grand daughter, and if the baby was born out of wedlock, he might've thought he just didn't really count for much and never would?

I think he was from a bygone era: when kids roamed the hills unattended, and sometimes bad things happened; everyone had a "funny uncle" and sometimes that uncle went too far; sometimes kids just disappeared and everyone accepted it and moved on with life.

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

I've done some Google searches, but there are so many documents to wade through...does anyone know if there are text translations of the Isaac Reinwand interviews that are on youtube? Either my computer isn't playing it very well, or the volume on the uploads is bad, but either way I have to turn my speakers all the way up to just barely hear what he has to say.

Also, somewhere someone said he seemed slow...but to me he seems like he just takes extra time to carefully consider every word, and he stumbles a bit if he's asked a question he didn't consider ahead of time. I don't think that's evidence of anything, but it certainly makes me want to go over what he has to say with the proverbial nit comb.

 

[cisabella28]

I remember reading somewhere once that the grandpa had memory loss problems or dementia at the time of DKJ's disappearance? Can anyone confirm this? thanks!

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

I remember reading somewhere once that the grandpa had memory loss problems or dementia at the time of DKJ's disappearance? Can anyone confirm this? thanks!

I haven't seen that...but it would certainly speak ill of the parents if they knew that and left the baby with him anyway.

 

[MimosaMornings]

Wasn’t the grandfather not in good health? He was on oxygen from what I remember, although I was surprised they had a campfire with oxygen nearby.

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

I assumed he was only on oxygen occasionally. I don't think he had to use it constantly?

 

[cisabella28]

Wasn’t the grandfather not in good health? He was on oxygen from what I remember, although I was surprised they had a campfire with oxygen nearby.

Jessica was his caretaker so I would assume IMO that if he needed a caretaker that he was in poor health. I haven’t been able to find any articles about what was wrong with the grandfather and think this is important information. Like I said, I remember reading somewhere the grandpa had memory problems but not sure if this is true or can be confirmed. If anyone has an article confirming this please lmk I’ve been searching for days for this!

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

I've seen several references that he was in "ill health" and "used an oxygen tank" but no real details. I did find his obituary somewhere the other day, which said he died of cancer.

 

[MimosaMornings]

http://******************.blogspot.com/2015/07/deorre-missing-no-suspects-but-persons.html

When Trina says "dad," she's talking about little Deorr's great-grandpa who was on the camping trip.)

“Trina Bates Clegg My father is 76 and on oxygen 24 hours and not in good health. “


So this would be Robert Walton, who lived with Jessica and her then fiancé with little DeOrr.

Jessica was previously married with children, correct? And suddenly married after her son’s disappearance?