Found Deceased ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #74

[Nikynoo]

It is all so senseless. Charles wanted a divorce. If he made $400,000-500,000 a year she would have gotten a healthy monthly alimony payment, more than the social security she got. Charles would have taken custody of JJ. Tylee had about 1 year before she was of age and even at 17, she could have been enrolled in college and lived in a dorm. No one had to die. Except maybe Tammy.

A million dollars may seem like a lot but it would only produce income of about $40,000 a year. Lori probably would have gotten at least $5,000-$10,000 a month in alimony. That's $60,000-$120,000 a year. She would have been much better off financially from a divorce. Now, I don't think she is any kind of financial genious but, wow, to jump to murder is a very twisted leap. At least two of her previous divorces got pretty nasty we've heard but she had gone through three so surely she was familiar with the process.

But wouldn’t she get the entire one million in a lump sum?

 

[MissTilly]

Tammy fighting off the Gunman showed she was a brave woman, strong in her faith…
Sadly, Tammy underestimated the danger she was in.

rsbm
i really wish she had given him a good whack with her clogging shoes!
poor Tammy, she deserved so much more

 

[KonaHonu]

I thought the closing arguments had no real surprises. Each side touched all the bases in about the same way I thought they would, with the focus for each side on the best strategic points they had.

I have no doubt she's going to be found guilty. I don't think she personally got her own hands dirty on any of the killings, but she was cooperating with Chad and Alex and knew what was happening, and that makes her guilty for all of it, even what Alex and Chad did. The jury only has to see proof in the evidence that she was intending and working to see those 3 people killed, along with some financial intent, and she's guilty on all counts. They will look for it and find enough to be satisfied.

I expect she will receive huge sentences -- the jury won't want her brand of crazy to be on the streets again, endangering what could be their family and friends. [ETA - Noted below that in ID the judge not jury sets the sentence. I do think he will lock her up for good. He gets it.]

But I am not expecting a verdict soon. It's just too much data for them to consume, and too many separate charges to consider, for them to weigh quickly imo.

Just my 2c.

PS - I think Chad will get the DP if he doesn't get a plea offer for less. I do think the state might make him an offer, to save the expense and uncertainty of a jury trial, and also because Lori won't be getting DP for the same crimes (equity in sentencing) which might make a DP have grounds for appeal. But he should be dead-ified for this madness he invented and used to kill innocent people who had done him no harm. This type of crime is exactly why you have a DP.

I don't think she got her hands dirty and there is no evidence at all in Tylee's murder of her direct particpation. I'm not swayed by a mother's hair being on her child even if it was stuck to the duct tape but it is evidence for murder of JJ. I'm not sure she will, or should be convicted on all counts. Specifically, although I think she conspired to murder Tylee, I don't think there is evidence to support a first degree murder conviction on Tylee. I do think there is evidence for the conspiracy.

For the grand theft count, there is evidence that she received the SS payments but minimal evidence of intent which is an element of the crime. I do think she intended to steal the money. Some preliminary research online tonight suggests what she did may not be so unusual or even illegal under federal law.

When a person dies you are supposed to report the death to the SSA "as soon as practical" but it is usually the funeral home that does so. There does not seem to be a statutory deadline when failing to report becomes fraud or theft. After a year or so, yes of course it is obviously fraud. But she was actually entitled to the September payment and I think I read she only received the October and November payments before SSA stopped. In most cases SSA only requires payments be returned. They rarely prosecute over just a few months. Of course this was the State of Idaho prosecuting for a crime against the United States as a victim so rules are different.

If the jury comes back tomorrow I think it will be on all charges. If not, I think we will see a more nuanced conviction with guilt on all three conspiracy charges, first degree murder on JJ a coin flip, and possible acquittal on grand theft. It is surrpising that the defense did not defend the grand theft more specifically since there is certainly an argument that what was proven she did not not rise to the level of a crime.

 

[KonaHonu]

But wouldn’t she get the entire one million in a lump sum?

She would, and she could live off of it for quite a while. But financially it is far less valuable than the stream of alimony payments. But like I said, I don't think she or Chad are financially astute enough to realize that.

And another funny part is Chad, as a deadbeat failure supported by Tammy could probably also have gotten alimony. Not as much and probably worth less than the life insurance.

But seriously, these two would have been better off sitting down with a financial planner and asking "Should we kill our spouses and kids or would divorce be a better option?"

 

[KonaHonu]

They are being served a cocktail as well. It is a "Dark and Stormy".

Love it! And so appropriate

 

[KonaHonu]

I have homemade pizza for supper. Well, almost homemade. The crust is from Trader Joe’s.

Got a big pizza last night. Leftovers fora few nights. Definitely hoping to open a Portal of Commonality with the jury tonight to discuss the case. Please don't tell the bailiffs!

 

[KonaHonu]

DBM

 

[Cindizzi]

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

LVD wanted, and needed to be married to CD for the upcoming "event", so that they could live together, go to the temple together, etc. Once she remarried, the spousal support (alimony) would stop.

Both of the children died in Sept 2019, so LVD was not entitled to keep that month, nor Oct to Jan. I'm optimistic that the jury will convict her of grand theft.

Reporting the death of someone collecting SS is not the same as the requirements for a parent and children getting SS survivor benefits. Per Mark Saari, a special agent with the Social Security Administration, "LVD was required by the SSA to report any change of address, custody changes, changes of marital status, or death. Saari said that Lori did not notify them that she moved to Hawaii, married Chad, or that JJ was missing".
She applied for the benefits and signed acknowledging the reporting requirements, as we all do when applying for benefits, including a warning about fraud.

Most SS benefit theft is from not reporting and/or hiding the death of someone who has been legitimately collecting on their own SS account.

LVD participated in 2 murders for the purpose (partly at least) of applying for parent and child survivor benefits and then keeping benefits after death, which is very different.
LVD was already apparently stealing her daughter's benefits MOO and wanted to continue doing so.

Money, money, money: Day 11-12 Vallow Daybell murder trial

“Money, sex, and power,” is what Lori Vallow Daybell allegedly wanted, according to prosecuting attorneys. And on Tuesday, two witnesses reviewed Lori’s bank statements, the child…

www.abc4.com

 

[SteveS]

I don't think she got her hands dirty and there is no evidence at all in Tylee's murder of her direct particpation. I'm not swayed by a mother's hair being on her child even if it was stuck to the duct tape but it is evidence for murder of JJ. I'm not sure she will, or should be convicted on all counts. Specifically, although I think she conspired to murder Tylee, I don't think there is evidence to support a first degree murder conviction on Tylee. I do think there is evidence for the conspiracy.
.

I doubt you could come to those 2 conclusions together.

You need to be aware that if she is found guilty of the conspiracy to murder each and all of them, then she would also almost certainly be 100% guilty of the murder too.

With a murder conspiracy with Alex and Chad, then in order for her to be judged NOT guilty of murder(s), you have to believe NEITHER Chad nor Alex committed the murders either. But I think the evidence is overwhelming for the involvement of one, the other, or both in all of those 3 murders.

She isn't charged with murdering Tammy, so she can't be found guilty of that one.

There is no need for her to have actually done part of the deeds herself, physically, in order for her to be guilty of the murder(s). All it would take would be for her to have conspired (iow, been partners) with others regarding that crime, and then whatever any partner does as part of that, they all have effectively done.

ETA - About the theft charges, they ARE crimes. She did take money that was NOT hers to take, she did hide the fact she was taking it and taking it and would have continued to take it, and she did have to be apprehended. When found guilty (as she clearly is), she will get a sentence, most likely it's a fine (probably designed to repay what was stolen, plus a bit more) plus some prison time so she will learn a lesson. These things don't have to end up with someone in prison, but they can and in egregious cases sometimes do. (Think tax fraud.) This can reasonably be seen as an EGREGIOUS way to steal money.

But since she has done a half-dozen or so other crimes, which probably each carry a max sentence of LWOP, this sentence won't really end up mattering anyhow imo. Once you've done one life sentence, you can't do more (even if you teach you live more lives).

 

[pseudo_hum]

Lori could have easily prevented what happened to those children if she chose to. She could have been a good mother for many years, but she managed to erase it all in a few weeks.

 

[Gardenista]

I fell asleep before they went home. I'm choosing to think they made a decision, ordered pizza and then went home to sleep on it. Probably wrong, but hopefully it will make me feel less anxious while we wait.

 

[iamshadow21]

I fell asleep before they went home. I'm choosing to think they made a decision, ordered pizza and then went home to sleep on it. Probably wrong, but hopefully it will make me feel less anxious while we wait.

I know you were over on Gannon's thread, and I know that's pretty much what we thought his jury did. Had lunch, unloaded about all their thoughts they'd been sitting on for weeks, went home for the weekend, came back, and had a verdict by lunchtime Monday. I think it was still under eight hours deliberation, even with the lunch being included in the time.

I have hopes we'll get a similarly speedy and definitive result here.

MOO

 

[SteveS]

I'm not anxious at all. The evidence is the evidence, so they will get there.

I think they have a fairly sizable task that will take quite some time - many crimes alleged, many witnesses with no rhyme or reason to which crimes they might be evidence for, and hundred of hours of testimony. And then you have 12 individuals who don't necessarily examine things the same way, and may or may not all be on the same page at the outset.

I'm in no hurry or worry about how long it takes them to get it figured out.

 

[cujenn81]

It is all so senseless. Charles wanted a divorce. If he made $400,000-500,000 a year she would have gotten a healthy monthly alimony payment, more than the social security she got. Charles would have taken custody of JJ. Tylee had about 1 year before she was of age and even at 17, she could have been enrolled in college and lived in a dorm. No one had to die. Except maybe Tammy.

A million dollars may seem like a lot but it would only produce income of about $40,000 a year. Lori probably would have gotten at least $5,000-$10,000 a month in alimony. That's $60,000-$120,000 a year. She would have been much better off financially from a divorce. Now, I don't think she is any kind of financial genious but, wow, to jump to murder is a very twisted leap. At least two of her previous divorces got pretty nasty we've heard but she had gone through three so surely she was familiar with the process.

But she also wanted Chad (for reasons I’m not sure any of us will ever understand). Even if you take him out of the picture… she clearly has a problem being alone. The alimony payments would’ve stopped the minute she remarried.

 

[squareandrabbet]

Just got caught up. It's really too much to ask that the jury come to THAT quick a verdict in such a complex case. Even if they each have decided she is guilty, they must go through the key charges and points to make sure they are doing their duty. Having said that...I expect that they won't want to linger over the weekend so I expect a guilty verdict by tomorrow.

I loved Lori's uncle Rex's comment to the press that he respects the defense, as they are an important player in the judicial system. He said (paraphrasing) they 'did what they could considering what little they had to work with'. I agree.

I'm feeling confident that the jury will find Ms StormChaser guilty on all counts!
I think others have gotten off lightly. (I'm looking at you Melaniece and Zulema.)

Thinking of JJ, Tylee, Tammy and Charles tonight

Absolutely... judges generally include instructions not to rush through things.

 

[Gardenista]

Absolutely... judges generally include instructions not to rush through things.

At about 56:20, he starts giving them instructions on how to deliberate

 

[aafromaa]

It is all so senseless. Charles wanted a divorce. If he made $400,000-500,000 a year she would have gotten a healthy monthly alimony payment, more than the social security she got. Charles would have taken custody of JJ. Tylee had about 1 year before she was of age and even at 17, she could have been enrolled in college and lived in a dorm. No one had to die. Except maybe Tammy.

A million dollars may seem like a lot but it would only produce income of about $40,000 a year. Lori probably would have gotten at least $5,000-$10,000 a month in alimony. That's $60,000-$120,000 a year. She would have been much better off financially from a divorce. Now, I don't think she is any kind of financial genious but, wow, to jump to murder is a very twisted leap. At least two of her previous divorces got pretty nasty we've heard but she had gone through three so surely she was familiar with the process.

But you are forgetting…CD & LVD believed that catastrophic things like an earthquake in Utah were coming quickly and that Jesus was returning in 2020. They didn’t need $120,000 a year for 10 or 20 years. They needed as much as they could get as quickly as they could get to go gather the 144,000 before Jesus returned in 2020. The million she thought she was getting from CV’s life insurance and the $430,000 he was getting from TD’s only needed to last them a year and a half or two years. CV changing his life insurance and not telling her was the first snag in their plans. Kay insisting on the welfare check right before their trip to Knottsberry Farm with the Daybell children was the next thing to rock their boat. And ZP failing to get that earthquake to happen meant they wouldn’t have the expected chaos so that no one would be paying attention to what they were doing like LVD said. But in the beginning of the plan, they thought they would have $1.43 million to last them until the end of the world….even if that was supposed to be only until 2020.

 

[BeachSky]

I don't think she got her hands dirty and there is no evidence at all in Tylee's murder of her direct particpation. I'm not swayed by a mother's hair being on her child even if it was stuck to the duct tape but it is evidence for murder of JJ. I'm not sure she will, or should be convicted on all counts. Specifically, although I think she conspired to murder Tylee, I don't think there is evidence to support a first degree murder conviction on Tylee. I do think there is evidence for the conspiracy.

For the grand theft count, there is evidence that she received the SS payments but minimal evidence of intent which is an element of the crime. I do think she intended to steal the money. Some preliminary research online tonight suggests what she did may not be so unusual or even illegal under federal law.

When a person dies you are supposed to report the death to the SSA "as soon as practical" but it is usually the funeral home that does so. There does not seem to be a statutory deadline when failing to report becomes fraud or theft. After a year or so, yes of course it is obviously fraud. But she was actually entitled to the September payment and I think I read she only received the October and November payments before SSA stopped. In most cases SSA only requires payments be returned. They rarely prosecute over just a few months. Of course this was the State of Idaho prosecuting for a crime against the United States as a victim so rules are different.

If the jury comes back tomorrow I think it will be on all charges. If not, I think we will see a more nuanced conviction with guilt on all three conspiracy charges, first degree murder on JJ a coin flip, and possible acquittal on grand theft. It is surrpising that the defense did not defend the grand theft more specifically since there is certainly an argument that what was proven she did not not rise to the level of a crime.

BBM

Report death?
She never reported them missing.
Tylee last seen Sept 8, 2019.
J.J. last seen Sept 23, 2019.
Lori was in Kauai honeymoon sunning when served papers to produce the kids Jan 2020.
She was not calling her sister, friend, her church, or LE saying I can’t find my kids!
She should of never touched THEIR money if she was innocent. She was spending their SS money shopping,dancing, sunning, hiding, trying to rent a condo (No children on the application btw)
She lied as to where they were. She knew where they were. Which was in the ground of her husband Chad’s backyard.


MOO
Today please be the day they put her away.

 

[minusfour]

It's 10 PM Friday night where I am, and I do not want to go to bed and miss the verdict. I'm hoping to wake up to some great news!