Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #45

[gumchew]

Great post. He (and all reporters) must be extremely careful. I mentioned how I found a story in the UK reporting that JJ had been decapitated (based apparently on the affidavit mentioning that Chad pulled out just after they discovered "the head" near the pond.

Thanks. The other thing I didn't point out about yesterday's NY Post article that @BeckyF linked is that it also says that JJ was found "with a white plastic bag also over his head". Not unlike the story you found, this is inference from incomplete details. We may find that it's correct, when more details are eventually released, but the APC doesn't say that the second layer of plastic is a bag, nor that it's only over his head. Small things, but they can snowball as they are referenced by other news outlets and potentially added to (as happened here).

 

[Forever Young]

Thanks. The other thing I didn't point out about yesterday's NY Post article that @BeckyF linked is that it also says that JJ was found "with a white plastic bag also over his head". Not unlike the story you found, this is inference from incomplete details. We may find that it's correct, when more details are eventually released, but the APC doesn't say that the second layer of plastic is a bag, nor that it's only over his head. Small things, but they can snowball as they are referenced by other news outlets and potentially added to (as happened here).

I'm a big fan of NE, as are many others. I think his use of the term dismembered was misinterpreted, when he was only trying to be sensitive to the state Tylee was found in. People took it to possibly meaning something he did not mean. From there the story just went south with Nancy Grace.

 

[JRWoodwardMSW]

So in this scenario, everyone was a "light" spirit, and Melani P was their daughter? Who were their two 5.1L male offsprings then?

I wonder if Chad is still assigning light/dark labels to the spirits he is meeting in jail these days.

Nathan Eaton, the jailhouse cook and the guy who greenlit the upcoming “Baby Shark” TV show: 7.5 dark. Everybody who posts that ACx did it alone: 5.0 L.

 

[passionflower]

I imagine many of CD's traits and actions can be found here. Cult leader courtesy of Joe Navarro,

all cult leaders are narcassists.

1. He has a grandiose idea of who he is and what he can achieve.
2. Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, or brilliance.
3. Demands blind, unquestioned obedience.
4. Requires excessive admiration from followers and outsiders.
5. Has a sense of entitlement—expecting to be treated as special at all times.
6. Is exploitative of others by asking for their money or that of relatives, putting others at financial risk.
7. Is arrogant and haughty in his behavior or attitude.
8. Has an exaggerated sense of power (entitlement) that allows him to bend rules and break laws.
9. Takes sexual advantage of members of his sect or cult.
10. Sex is a requirement with adults and sub adults as part of a ritual or rite.
11. Is hypersensitive to how he is seen or perceived by others.
12. Publicly devalues others as being inferior, incapable, or not worthy.
13. Makes members confess their sins or faults, publicly subjecting them to ridicule or humiliationwhile revealing exploitable weaknesses of the penitent.
14. Has ignored the needs of others, including: biological, physical, emotional, and financial needs.
15. Is frequently boastful of accomplishments.
16. Needs to be the center of attention and does things to distract others to ensure that he or she is being noticed, e.g., by arriving late, using exotic clothing, overdramatic speech, or by making theatrical entrances.
17. Has insisted on always having the best of anything (house, car, jewelry, clothes) even when others are relegated to lesser facilities, amenities, or clothing.
18. Doesn’t seem to listen well to needs of others; communication is usually one-way, in the form of dictates.
19. Haughtiness, grandiosity, and the need to be controlling is part of his personality.
20. Behaves as though people are objects to be used, manipulated or exploited for personal gain.
21. When criticized he tends to lash out not just with anger but with rage.
22. Anyone who criticizes or questions him is called an “enemy.”
23. Refers to non-members or non-believers as “the enemy.”
24. Acts imperious at times, not wishing to know what others think or desire.
25. Believes himself to be omnipotent.
26. Has “magical” answers or solutions to problems.
27. Is superficially charming.
28. Habitually puts down others as inferior; only he is superior.
29. Has a certain coldness or aloofness about him that makes others worry about who this person really is and or whether they really know him.
30. Is deeply offended when there are perceived signs of boredom, being ignored or of being slighted.
31. Treats others with contempt and arrogance.
32. Is constantly assessing people to determine those who are a threat or those who revere him.
33. The word “I” dominates his conversations. He is oblivious to how often he references himself.
34. Hates to be embarrassed or fail publicly; when he does he acts out with rage.
35. Doesn’t seem to feel guilty for anything he has done wrong nor does he apologize for his actions.
36. Believes he possesses the answers and solutions to world problems.
37. Believes himself to be a deity or a chosen representative of a deity.
38. "Rigid," "unbending," or "insensitive" describes how this person thinks.
39. Tries to control others in what they do, read, view, or think.
40. Has isolated members of his sect from contact with family or the outside world.
41. Monitors and/or restricts contact with family or outsiders.
42. Works the least but demands the most.
43. Has stated that he is “destined for greatness” or that he will be “martyred.”
44. Seems to be highly dependent on tribute and adoration and will often fish for compliments.
45. Uses enforcers or sycophants to ensure compliance from members or believers.
46. Sees self as “unstoppable” and perhaps has even said so.
47. Conceals background or family, which would disclose how plain or ordinary he is.
48. Doesn’t think there is anything wrong with himself and in fact sees himself as perfection or “blessed.”
49. Has taken away followers' freedom to leave, to travel, to pursue life and liberty.
50. Has isolated the group physically (moved to a remote area) so as to not be observed.

So good I had to repost! Allot of so called leaders are like this Jim Jones, Jim Baker, Hitler, Daybell lots of cult leaders! Great post!

 

[Teche]

This guy? From an article in 2015...

"[SM]'s lifelong friend, Chad Daybell of Provo-based Spring Creek Books, had been trying to persuade [SM] to write a book for several years. Daybell, the book's editor and publisher, feels like [SM]'s story is one that strikes close to home for a lot of people nowadays.

"To me, it's a true hero's journey where you have a hero who takes a tumble in life and fights his way back to where he wants to be," Daybell said. "[SM] didn't always have the life he wanted to have. I think he truly wanted to be a Hall of Famer and a Super Bowl champ, but he's happier where he is now. It's an inspiring view of how life can get you down but how you can also bounce back."

Scott Mitchell: Former U., NFL quarterback says 'The Biggest Loser' show saved his life

So Chad helped him with publishing his book, "Alive Again?"

https://www.amazon.com/Alive-Again-Scott-Mitchell/dp/0996097430

11- Scott Mitchell is Alive Again | cdaybell.com

I wonder how he feels about his life long friend...

 

[BeckyF]

BBM

First -- I'm sorry, I was really tired and cranky last night. I think what I was reacting to was a new "interpretation" by the author of the NY Post article that--in my mind--didn't amount to anything more than speculation based on the same information you and I have. You're right that the NY Post is an approved source and I apologize for the editorializing.

But to the bolded comments, respectfully, I think the date does matter. Can you provide a link to an MSM article talking about dismemberment from before Nate's interview, because I cannot find any mention of that in MSM prior to the morning of 6/23, which is when Nate's interview with Nancy Grace took place. I don't remember any such specific mention and I can't find it right now using Google.

ETA: my point here is that poor Nate made himself the source during that interview. I can find some unapproved sources (including us) talking about it before that morning, but I cannot find any MSM sources doing so.

It was my fault. The date on the source noted on The NY post article was actually linked to EIN and it was dated after the Nate interview. I think I must have remembered it being mentioned elsewhere. Anyway I sincerely apologize for stating false information. I always try to be accurate in what I post.

 

[gumchew]

Considering that there are multiple testimonies about her being a good mother, my theory is that she changed. People change.

I agree. Sometimes due to life experiences, sometimes due to brain chemistry, and sometimes both.

 

[Forever Young]

"Scott Mitchell discusses his relationship about Chad Daybell as the two grew up together and also wrote a book about Mitchell's life from Springville to the University of Utah, the NFL and his appearance on The Biggest Loser. Then one day Daybell just up and left during promoting the book."

From February 2020... an interesting point of view, from someone who knew Chad. I guess Chad up and left at the time, in order to move to Rexburg:

Scott Mitchell's relationship with Chad Daybell - KSL Unrivaled - Omny.fm

This is an interesting listen. Thanks for posting. Once again, Chad is perceived as the "nicest guy in the world".

 

[gumchew]

It was my fault. The date on the source noted on The NY post article was actually linked to EIN and it was dated after the Nate interview. I think I must have remembered it being mentioned elsewhere. Anyway I sincerely apologize for stating false information. I always try to be accurate in what I post.

Absolutely! I know you do! 100% And admittedly, I'm fixated on a very narrow point today.

 

[gumchew]

Honestly, I think the children were drugged with something easily accessible to LVD. Since there have been no reports of illicit drug use in AC or LVD's history - it is highly doubtful that they would go looking for heroin (IMO). I think it is much more likely that she (or he) would use something very easy to get or they already had (ie: from the Maverick store). I think it is highly likely that LVD did have other Rx's for JJ - maybe even a sleep med that we are unaware of. It could be that she just picked up Nyquil or an OTC sleep medicine and mixed it in a drink or food for the kids.

I agree. Lots of things are possible but they will have wanted to do the easiest, most convenient thing that would draw the least attention. Hell, LV may have simply had Ambien (or similar) of her own.

 

[gumchew]

I know I have said this before...so i rarely contribute to the Risperidone conversations anymore.... BUT this was just one prescription bottle sort of hanging around. We have seen NO other prescription information. AND Janis said that Lori stockpiled medications. So my guess is that she kept the necessary prescriptions for JJ in a better controlled way.
Bottom Line: I just do not see the Risperidone as being that important.

Agreed. Here's another thought along the same lines: not only do we not know about other prescription information for JJ, we also don't know what other prescriptions the various adults in this story had access to, either. In other words, did anybody have an Rx for Ambien or another hypnotic sleep aid?

 

[A2FMNST]

I agree. Lots of things are possible but they will have wanted to do the easiest, most convenient thing that would draw the least attention. Hell, LV may have simply had Ambien (or similar) of her own.

I’m holding out hope LE is able to run expanded toxicology tests and get some results now that they have Tylee and JJ.

 

[spammie]

I truly hope this case actually goes to trial. The Casey Anthony trial, which I followed to completion left me speechless. I don't think I can handle a similar outcome.

 

[BeckyF]

Absolutely! I know you do! 100% And admittedly, I'm fixated on a very narrow point today.

Thank you for understanding.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

This is an interesting listen. Thanks for posting. Once again, Chad is perceived as the "nicest guy in the world".

As was Ted Bundy... charming guy etc etc.

 

[gumchew]

As was Ted Bundy... charming guy etc etc.

Ted Bundy is the comparison that comes to mind for both CD and (even more so) LVD. Charming, affable, funny... and if you find yourself alone with them... coldly murderous. Scares the living bejeezus out of me.

 

[gumchew]

Nathan Eaton, the jailhouse cook and the guy who greenlit the upcoming “Baby Shark” TV show: 7.5 dark. Everybody who posts that ACx did it alone: 5.0 L.

You forgot "Likes his steaks medium well", which I'm pretty sure boosts that to an 8.0 D rating.

 

[Satchie]

I imagine many of CD's traits and actions can be found here. Cult leader courtesy of Joe Navarro,

all cult leaders are narcassists.

1. He has a grandiose idea of who he is and what he can achieve.
2. Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, or brilliance.
3. Demands blind, unquestioned obedience.
4. Requires excessive admiration from followers and outsiders.
5. Has a sense of entitlement—expecting to be treated as special at all times.
6. Is exploitative of others by asking for their money or that of relatives, putting others at financial risk.
7. Is arrogant and haughty in his behavior or attitude.
8. Has an exaggerated sense of power (entitlement) that allows him to bend rules and break laws.
9. Takes sexual advantage of members of his sect or cult.
10. Sex is a requirement with adults and sub adults as part of a ritual or rite.
11. Is hypersensitive to how he is seen or perceived by others.
12. Publicly devalues others as being inferior, incapable, or not worthy.
13. Makes members confess their sins or faults, publicly subjecting them to ridicule or humiliationwhile revealing exploitable weaknesses of the penitent.
14. Has ignored the needs of others, including: biological, physical, emotional, and financial needs.
15. Is frequently boastful of accomplishments.
16. Needs to be the center of attention and does things to distract others to ensure that he or she is being noticed, e.g., by arriving late, using exotic clothing, overdramatic speech, or by making theatrical entrances.
17. Has insisted on always having the best of anything (house, car, jewelry, clothes) even when others are relegated to lesser facilities, amenities, or clothing.
18. Doesn’t seem to listen well to needs of others; communication is usually one-way, in the form of dictates.
19. Haughtiness, grandiosity, and the need to be controlling is part of his personality.
20. Behaves as though people are objects to be used, manipulated or exploited for personal gain.
21. When criticized he tends to lash out not just with anger but with rage.
22. Anyone who criticizes or questions him is called an “enemy.”
23. Refers to non-members or non-believers as “the enemy.”
24. Acts imperious at times, not wishing to know what others think or desire.
25. Believes himself to be omnipotent.
26. Has “magical” answers or solutions to problems.
27. Is superficially charming.
28. Habitually puts down others as inferior; only he is superior.
29. Has a certain coldness or aloofness about him that makes others worry about who this person really is and or whether they really know him.
30. Is deeply offended when there are perceived signs of boredom, being ignored or of being slighted.
31. Treats others with contempt and arrogance.
32. Is constantly assessing people to determine those who are a threat or those who revere him.
33. The word “I” dominates his conversations. He is oblivious to how often he references himself.
34. Hates to be embarrassed or fail publicly; when he does he acts out with rage.
35. Doesn’t seem to feel guilty for anything he has done wrong nor does he apologize for his actions.
36. Believes he possesses the answers and solutions to world problems.
37. Believes himself to be a deity or a chosen representative of a deity.
38. "Rigid," "unbending," or "insensitive" describes how this person thinks.
39. Tries to control others in what they do, read, view, or think.
40. Has isolated members of his sect from contact with family or the outside world.
41. Monitors and/or restricts contact with family or outsiders.
42. Works the least but demands the most.
43. Has stated that he is “destined for greatness” or that he will be “martyred.”
44. Seems to be highly dependent on tribute and adoration and will often fish for compliments.
45. Uses enforcers or sycophants to ensure compliance from members or believers.
46. Sees self as “unstoppable” and perhaps has even said so.
47. Conceals background or family, which would disclose how plain or ordinary he is.
48. Doesn’t think there is anything wrong with himself and in fact sees himself as perfection or “blessed.”
49. Has taken away followers' freedom to leave, to travel, to pursue life and liberty.
50. Has isolated the group physically (moved to a remote area) so as to not be observed.

The big question, for me, is why do people follow someone into 'co-creating' a cult. It's not so much all the ways Jim Jones thought he was special, but how and why did all these other people believe he was special. So much and so special that they were willing to do anything he told them to do. Why didn't they refuse to drink the kool-aid, and gang up on him and his handful of enforcers, and fight for their lives and the lives of their friends and children, even if it meant dying in the process - since they were clearly going to die anyway?'

IMO that requires looking at the psychology/character traits/circumstances of the followers, and their relationship to the leader.

So, for eg, if Hitler had been born in England or the US, regardless of his narcissistic traits, IMO neither nation would have voted him in as their leader. They didn't need or want Hitler or his message or the Nazi party because they'd won WWI, they already had an empire, they were economically prosperous, they had a functioning democratic system. Whereas, the Germans had none of those things, but they wanted them badly, and they created a shared delusion with Hitler about how he, with their support, would deliver a glorious future for Germany, etc etc.

Also, most cult leaders have a powerful ability to speak to and stir up groups or crowds. That means displaying passion, confidence, repetition, and so forth. They understand how to stage and publish propaganda, which exists for the sole purpose of getting people worked up and supporting your cause in a dire 'us vs them' way. They have innate skills in brain washing techniques, and manipulating people in groups to give up their own money and power and walk willingly into the prison of the cult, and never to leave, even though the door is unlocked.

 

[887sMtreme]

DBM — It was a thought I can perfectly easily keep to myself.

 

[Forever Young]

The big question, for me, is why do people follow someone into 'co-creating' a cult. It's not so much all the ways Jim Jones thought he was special, but how and why did all these other people believe he was special. So much and so special that they were willing to do anything he told them to do. Why didn't they refuse to drink the kool-aid, and gang up on him and his handful of enforcers, and fight for their lives and the lives of their friends and children, even if it meant dying in the process - since they were clearly going to die anyway?'

IMO that requires looking at the psychology/character traits/circumstances of the followers, and their relationship to the leader.

So, for eg, if Hitler had been born in England or the US, regardless of his narcissistic traits, IMO neither nation would have voted him in as their leader. They didn't need or want Hitler or his message or the Nazi party because they'd won WWI, they already had an empire, they were economically prosperous, they had a functioning democratic system. Whereas, the Germans had none of those things, but they wanted them badly, and they created a shared delusion with Hitler about how he, with their support, would deliver a glorious future for Germany, etc etc.

Also, most cult leaders have a powerful ability to speak to and stir up groups or crowds. That means displaying passion, confidence, repetition, and so forth. They understand how to stage and publish propaganda, which exists for the sole purpose of getting people worked up and supporting your cause in a dire 'us vs them' way. They have innate skills in brain washing techniques, and manipulating people in groups to give up their own money and power and walk willingly into the prison of the cult, and never to leave, even though the door is unlocked.

I'll go out on a limb, even though I may hate myself for it later.

I do not know CD, nor have I read any of his books or listened to his podcasts. I am not the originator of the observation that this "cult" had hypothetically recruited 7 people out of their goal of 144,000.

And 4 out of this 7 from what we can tell, were totally in the dark about the necessity of physically killing zombies.

Cutting to the chase without adding too much to the argument, I do not believe that these killings are "cult related", though I am not sure how many it really takes to make a cult.

From listening to people who were close to Chad, apparently none of them seen him as a person in the position of authority or leadership, regardless of whether they thought of themselves as a cult or not.