Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #4

[BigAl16]

There is nothing, absolutely nothing, in mainstream, official LDS doctrine that will help you and this online community find the missing children.

And you know this how? Is this just your opinion or do you know where they are and thus can say this with some certainty?

 

[155etta]

In the lds faith we believe in performing ordinance work, such as baptism, for those who died without having the opportunity in this life. The person can choose to accept the work or reject it, Tammy was going genealogy work, which is common for mainstream lds, to identify ancestors to then perform ordinances for them, a noble pastime. But Chad is manipulative, using a spiritual visit from a dead relative to guilt tammy into giving up her computer game that he didn't like her playing. I think it's an example of his selfish, manipulative nature moo. He's sounds controlling. I hope my explanation helps, if not you can look for more detailed explanation online.

What is the computer game he made her give up? Is there a link to this bit of info? If so, it really points to a side of Chad (manipulative with his wife) that hasn't been documented yet.

 

[renarde]

I think this might be a typo on the year. According to the GH interview with JJ's grandparents, Charles moved to Houston in March of 2019. Lori left in January 2019, a day after draining the joint bank account. Justin Lum at Fox 10 Phoenix has several stories that broke last night giving a pretty good timeline of events including a telephone interview with one of Charles' adult sons who said he helped his dad move in March 2019.

There are 3 video stories on this page worth watching: Documents: Lori Vallow claims she was 'god preparing for second coming of Christ'

This link shows some of the divorce documents. The second document in the thread is interesting because Charles was able to obtain an involuntary 72 hour mental health hold on Lori if she made contact with the police but let it expire.
Justin Lum Fox 10 on Twitter

When Charles moved to Houston in March 2019, did he take JJ along at that point? Would this be after he decided not to continue filing for divorce?

 

[indicolite22]

Yes, that is Colby's wife- she has been posting all over social media and is devastated by all of this- she is genuinely concerned about the kids. Gives me an insight as to how hard this is for him, too.

She also shows empathy for Charles.

 

[BigAl16]

We also need to keep in mind that a lot of posters don't know much about the LDS church. While it's not directly related, it's helpful to know the basics of their beliefs and what the church community is like to understand just how far out in left field Chad and Lori's beliefs are, as well as to understand how the culture and the perceptions of the community (of members and outsiders both) may have facilitated (or not) their crimes. If this were in an Amish community we would undoubtedly be discussing the culture and history of the Amish.

FWIW, the LDS people I've known have all been wonderful.

I'd also suggest that a person who has had a specific set of beliefs over time, even if they appear to have gone over the deep end and dreamed up a bunch of new crazy sounding beliefs, are going to keep or maintain some of those old beliefs. The new, kind of crazy sounding things might also not be dreamed up from scratch, but build on the old beliefs.

For example, the concept that Lori has that she's become a God seems less off the wall and more credible to me because I know she grew up being taught that if she did everything right she (or could it only be her husband, I don't remember?) would be the god of their own planet. She's just changed the timeline a bit. Or the comment about 3rd level of something that was discussed last night seemed like what she was saying was a takeoff of the Mormon 3 levels of heaven. None of which is saying any of that is mainstream Mormon belief.

 

[Colorado303]

I'm struggling to understand what Tammy and her group were doing at the Temple regarding submitting these names of deceased people. Supposedly this group submitted over 100,000 names of deceased people I believe to be rebaptized. Is this part of mainstream LDS doctrine? If someone could explain this it would be appreciated as it seems that this was an active effort and involved a group of people too as it was very administratively oriented. Just trying to understand why Tammy spent so much time on this large project and if it was at all tied to Chad's beliefs and books etc. Thank you.

It’s been explained to me that w/LDS you can’t enter Heaven unless you’ve been baptized as a Mormon. If someone was baptized in a different church, it doesn’t count. The people doing this work honestly believe they are releasing innocent souls from perpetual purgatory.

IMO their heart is in the right place.
I’m not LDS but if someone thinks I’m their ancestor and baptizes me in the Mormon church when I’m dead, I won’t mind. I don’t think I’ll be snatched from the gates of Episcopal Heaven and wind up in Mormon Heaven instead. I choose to believe it’s all the same Heaven and I’m good w/that.

 

[BigAl16]

I'm struggling to understand what Tammy and her group were doing at the Temple regarding submitting these names of deceased people. Supposedly this group submitted over 100,000 names of deceased people I believe to be rebaptized. Is this part of mainstream LDS doctrine? If someone could explain this it would be appreciated as it seems that this was an active effort and involved a group of people too as it was very administratively oriented. Just trying to understand why Tammy spent so much time on this large project and if it was at all tied to Chad's beliefs and books etc. Thank you.

This may have already been answered, but the short answer is that Mormons are big on genealogy and track their family trees back as far as they can. They also turn names of people who were never members of the Mormon faith to be baptized by proxy (aka baptism for the dead) and I think possibly other temple ordinances (marriage?) may also be done. The baptism by the dead actually involves going through the motions in the temple with someone doing the baptizing ceremony "in proxy" and someone else getting dunked in the water. One person will get "baptized" for several (10-20?) people, then someone else is up. There has been some controversy surrounding this (I think some jewish organizations got wind of them doing this for Jews killed in the holocaust and got upset although I might not have the story completely right).

After a person has been baptized by proxy on earth they will then, in the afterlife, be given a choice to accept that baptism (in which case they'll be full fledged Mormons with all the rights and privileges that implies) or they can turn it down.

 

[indicolite22]

Do we know if Tammy shared any of the unorthodox beliefs with Chad? Presumably she read all his books?

 

[Steelslady]

There are plenty of websites that discuss the LDS church, temple ceremonies and other ordinances.

Let's keep the focus here on Lori and Chad Daybell. And finding JJ and his sister.

I think that was pretty much the point of their post, though. The poster they quoted has so far not added any insight into anything discussed on these threads- just criticism of those trying to learn and differentiate between which is LDS beliefs versus Lori and Chads. Also, no insight given about the case and the missing children- just non-stop criticism of folks on here trying hard- working VERY hard, to sort this out. People that genuinely care, just to have a new person come on, who criticized our VI (posts have now been deleted two nights in a row over this) and everyone else in a snarky manner, who admitted that they are agnostic themselves.

I do agree with you, we need to focus on facts of this case and so far, I see absolutely nothing that even ties LDS to what Lori and Chad are doing. They could have been Protestant, Catholic, Amish as someone else said- pick your religion, they're using it to THEIR advantage, but they are NOT following the LDS beliefs- that much is clear.

So, yes, let's definitely get back to the facts of this case and see what we can do to try and find these poor kids. I could care less about Lori and Chad and what happens to them, but those children need our help and voices- even if all we can do is try to sort this out on here, post on social media sites their photos, etc- that's helping. Not this bickering back and forth which is taking over this thread and going to shut it down.

Folks- time to use the ignore feature. That's what I am going to do. Move on from trouble. Just not worth it and it makes more work for the Mods, and we don't want to do that. Focus!

 

[tresir2012]

There are plenty of websites that discuss the LDS church, temple ceremonies and other ordinances.

Let's keep the focus here on Lori and Chad Daybell. And finding JJ and his sister.

I think the church is relevant to the discussion because it appears to be what brought them together. Chad writes books and sells them primarily to LDS members and that is how the two met I believe, as Lori got into his books. They then began appearing/public speaking at the PAP gatherings along with other well known LDS members. It is not something that can be discounted as it is/was a big part of their lives and so is intertwined IMO.

 

[renarde]

It’s been explained to me that w/LDS you can’t enter Heaven unless you’ve been baptized as a Mormon. If someone was baptized in a different church, it doesn’t count. The people doing this work honestly believe they are releasing innocent souls from perpetual purgatory.

IMO their heart is in the right place.
I’m not LDS but if someone thinks I’m their ancestor and baptizes me in the Mormon church when I’m dead, I won’t mind. I don’t think I’ll be snatched from the gates of Episcopal Heaven and wind up in Mormon Heaven instead. I choose to believe it’s all the same Heaven and I’m good w/that.

My opinion... this is also how a lot of people were able to research their ancestry, long before the internet. People trying to find out about their family history often hoped their ancestors had been "baptized" posthumously by the Mormons. The Mormons kept very detailed records in SLC and were very helpful to anyone who wanted to know more about their family tree.

<moo>

FamilySearch Library — FamilySearch.org

 

[Colorado303]

I think that was pretty much the point of their post, though. The poster they quoted has so far not added any insight into anything discussed on these threads- just criticism of those trying to learn and differentiate between which is LDS beliefs versus Lori and Chads. Also, no insight given about the case and the missing children- just non-stop criticism of folks on here trying hard- working VERY hard, to sort this out. People that genuinely care, just to have a new person come on, who criticized our VI (posts have now been deleted two nights in a row over this) and everyone else in a snarky manner, who admitted that they are agnostic themselves.

I do agree with you, we need to focus on facts of this case and so far, I see absolutely nothing that even ties LDS to what Lori and Chad are doing. They could have been Protestant, Catholic, Amish as someone else said- pick your religion, they're using it to THEIR advantage, but they are NOT following the LDS beliefs- that much is clear.

So, yes, let's definitely get back to the facts of this case and see what we can do to try and find these poor kids. I could care less about Lori and Chad and what happens to them, but those children need our help and voices- even if all we can do is try to sort this out on here, post on social media sites their photos, etc- that's helping. Not this bickering back and forth which is taking over this thread and going to shut it down.

Folks- time to use the ignore feature. That's what I am going to do. Move on from trouble. Just not worth it and it makes more work for the Mods, and we don't want to do that. Focus!

Amen to the ignore button. I do think to get insight into L and C’s it may be helpful to understand basic LDS principles. But there’s absolutely no value in arguing about whether their beliefs are consistent w/church teachings.

And no-one is! Virtually every post asking questions about mainstream Mormon beliefs includes an acknowledgement that L and C are worlds away from LDS. But somehow those statements aren’t registering.

I honestly don’t think anyone here is criticizing the church or it’s beliefs in any way. Clearly Lori and Chat are crazier than rabid bats. So far gone they couldn’t describe LDS beliefs if they tried.

MOO

 

[tresir2012]

It’s been explained to me that w/LDS you can’t enter Heaven unless you’ve been baptized as a Mormon. If someone was baptized in a different church, it doesn’t count. The people doing this work honestly believe they are releasing innocent souls from perpetual purgatory.

IMO their heart is in the right place.
I’m not LDS but if someone thinks I’m their ancestor and baptizes me in the Mormon church when I’m dead, I won’t mind. I don’t think I’ll be snatched from the gates of Episcopal Heaven and wind up in Mormon Heaven instead. I choose to believe it’s all the same Heaven and I’m good w/that.

This has really got me wondering now. I know only one Mormon amongst our many relations and that person is into genealogy to track down older relatives who have mostly deceased. Is that the reason so they can be baptised in the LDS religion? All other relatives AFAIK are not LDS and are a mix of Roman Catholic or Protestant. So if those dead relatives get baptized LDS after there death, unknown to us, what about their Catholic or Protestant baptism/communion when they were alive? This seems wrong to me TBH.
So much for not discussing the church but I don't really think that will be possible on this thread, no matter how hard we try. If posters don't want to see it then there is the good old scroll and roll.

 

[Laughing]

Top cop looking for two lacking Idaho kids points warning to their fugitive mom | Post of Asia

Love this pic!

Where are you two? Please, believe that we want only the best for you both!

 

[Jethro4WS]

I think this might be a typo on the year. According to the GH interview with JJ's grandparents, Charles moved to Houston in March of 2019. Lori left in January 2019, a day after draining the joint bank account. Justin Lum at Fox 10 Phoenix has several stories that broke last night giving a pretty good timeline of events including a telephone interview with one of Charles' adult sons who said he helped his dad move in March 2019.

There are 3 video stories on this page worth watching: Documents: Lori Vallow claims she was 'god preparing for second coming of Christ'

This link shows some of the divorce documents. The second document in the thread is interesting because Charles was able to obtain an involuntary 72 hour mental health hold on Lori if she made contact with the police but let it expire.
Justin Lum Fox 10 on Twitter

I just followed up with Justin Lum and asked him about it and he responded that it was a typo on their part and it was March of 2019. FYI @Gardener1850

 

[Ontario Mom]

And you know this how? Is this just your opinion or do you know where they are and thus can say this with some certainty?

I'm guessing that this poster knows this, the same way I could say, without question, there is nothing within mainstream Baptist doctrine that would explain someone who once attended a Baptist church and then went cuckoo for cocoa puffs and disappeared their kids. I don't know much about the LDS teachings, but I'm pretty sure the LDS folks here do, and I trust what they have to say. With all due respect, of course.

 

[tresir2012]

What is the computer game he made her give up? Is there a link to this bit of info? If so, it really points to a side of Chad (manipulative with his wife) that hasn't been documented yet.

I would be interested in knowing about that. Was it solitaire?

 

[BigAl16]

I'm guessing that this poster knows this, the same way I could say, without question, there is nothing within mainstream Baptist doctrine that would explain someone who once attended a Baptist church and then went cuckoo for cocoa puffs and disappeared their kids. I don't know much about the LDS teachings, but I'm pretty sure the LDS folks here do, and I trust what they have to say. With all due respect, of course.

If that's what he means then I guess I disagree, which I've already explained in another post. I spend my first 18-ish years being indoctrinated in LDS beliefs and I agree, much of what Lori and, to some degree Chad, have reportedly said is way outside of LDS teachings. But I also think that some of it is starting with the LDS teachings and then from that staring point diving down a slippery slope. Where you end up is definitely not where you began, but knowing where you started is a lot of help in understanding where you ended up

 

[Idaholocal]

I just made an account, as a local Mormon rexburg citizen, to make a plea to my fellow members to quit being so defensive about our faith. Just because someone isn’t mainstream doesn’t mean they can’t fully participate in our weekly services with us. And to be honest emotional healing and alternative health Etc is fairly common in LDS culture. (Hello oil MLMs) We have a wide variety of opinions and beliefs even among active weekly members. I don’t think people in this forum are having a hard time grasping that. I’m frustrated at people in these fringe groups claiming full mormonism but of course this has to do with our faith an beliefs — for crying out loud it’s about a man who had dreams/visions as a teenager that set him up as a prophet leading a small group of religious followers, the literal way our faith was founded—of course members will be more susceptible to these types of claims. And the recent ramping up of changes from SLC and some of the things said has effected the timeline these fringe groups see their actions with. Don’t take this as an opportunity to do missionary work and quote articles of faith. Just help give people context to what LV & CD might have been thinking and focus on our task. Yes some of our beliefs sound out there and it’s hard to admit how easily they can be twisted. But this defensiveness and bickering needs to stop MOO

 

[Jethro4WS]

I would be interested in knowing about that. Was it solitaire?

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