Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #21

[SuziQ]

Dbm

 

[Drc40]

I'd like to think the judge is aware of a lot of details about the case that we as the public are not privy too. The current charges are serious enough to hold her. Since it's common knowledge the bail will likely be reduced in ID, and it appears she will be extradited very soon, I don't see it being dropped a dime.

I don’t believe the judge can base her bail ruling on anything that isn’t in the warrant regardless of what she might know. However, there is plenty in the warrant indicating LV is a flight risk since she’s already fled from Arizona to Idaho when the police started asking questions about her husbands death. Then she fled Idaho the day after they did a welfare check. Then she refused to appear in Idaho and she’s fighting extradition. Of course she’s a flight risk.

 

[Campizi67]

Money given to his kids could be part of their loyalty? MOO

It may just be an arbitrary date that is back far enough to be sure to get whatever is pertinent, but imagine if there is something from back in August? Not Lori so much, but Chad or (even more so) both of them. If they'd stayed there together or even in separate rooms, but at the same time, that would seem to indicate something. MOO.

August 2019 would be right after Charles Vallow was killed. Perhaps this is the beginning of an/one important timeline.... imo

 

[LDS social scientist]

Clipped for brevity

While I'm venting about Yellowstone, I want to mention it doesn't really matter if the notorious "ZONE of DEATH" is a real thing or not (it isn't*), what matters is what Alex and Lori thought about it. Could it have been worth it to them to chose that area over miles and miles of other remote spots inside or outside of the park because of some weird theory they fell for?

Someone with more familiarity with the area can correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that even this idea that Lori/Alex may have mistakenly held this Zone of Death theory doesn't really fit the way that we're using the facts:

• Unless I'm mistaken, the only reason we're speculating about this "Zone of Death" is because of the photographs of Chad/Alex/JJ/Tylee at the entrance to Yellowstone, which are also the last evidence we have of Tylee being seen;
• the Idaho portion of Yellowstone (the purported Zone of Death) appears (from the maps I can easily locate) to be several hours (and perhaps days) of (likely challenging) hiking from the roads inside Yellowstone Park;
• there appear (again just from the maps I can easily find on the Internet) to be many more roads with closer access to the Idaho area of Yellowstone outside the park itself -- from Idaho (though again most of the Zone itself is likely only available through hours of hiking).

I don't think it is likely that anyone trying to access the "Zone of Death" would have used a main Yellowstone Park entrance. So I think we can probably stop speculating on the Zone of Death not only for legal reasons, but for practical reasons as well. (Again, someone with greater familiarity with the area might be able to tell me I'm wrong here.)

 

[RexburgSleuth]

Search for missing Idaho teen Tylee Ryan may include Yellowstone National Park, sources say

I really don't understand the logic here. Even if they had a picture of Tylee at an area in the park, Yellowstone is enormous. With acid pools, that could easily dissolve a body since September.

Also, the wild animals, critters in the park, would scavenge anything to eat, especially over the winter.

This idea of finding evidence of Tylee in Yellowstone, just doesn't seem feasible to me.

Here's a reason. If they have cell phone data of where they possibly went. There's a chance there are still things to be seen. We can't assume that they did the acid pool thing like the man in 2016 did. We don't know what they knew at the time. Phones can help track movements in the park. The image I shared previously (https://www.cellularmaps.com/image/yellowstone_cells2.gif) was from a study in 2007 that showed some gaps in cell service in YNP. If they were tracked at the entrance, and wherever the iCloud photo shows, that gives a good idea of where they went.
There are dozens of trails, turnoffs, and service roads possible to turn down and very quickly a vehicle can become isolated from normal tourist traffic. Within an hour of being in the park, they could be very alone even out of range of earshot for a firearm. Then there are rivers, waterfalls, mountain gulleys, you name it. As you say, leaving a body for the animals to scavenge is a big possibility. However, many of those animals would leave bones, clothing, shoes, bullets and shells behind. If there's evidence, it could still remain to be found.

I agree, it would be bery easy to hide a body in Yellowstone apart from the obvious acid pool theory.

However, on that note...Typically a day trip to YNP from West Yellowstone is not going to include Mammoth Hot Springs or anything south of Old Faithful. If however, there's indication they went to Norris Geyser Basin, then the speculation of the acid pool is very real.

Searching for a ‘soak’ led to hot pool death
The attached image from Google maps satellite view (annotated by me) shows that the "pathway" to this particular pool is easily traversable on foot approximately 225 yards West through a thicket of trees. It's easy to see why the former person was able to get into the area around the pool without anyone stopping him.

While the article notes there were no remains to be found in the pool overnight. If this was the case with TR, there would be no way to recover her. However, there would be evidences of her being there. The wooden walkway is constructed in Norris basin as much to protect people as it is to protect the landscape. Humans walking through the area would leave heavy visible footprints in the crusted mineral deposits. Whether these would remain after winter snows is unknown. The digital footprint of phones involved would also be telling.

 

[yawningreyhound]

She was in Washington, I think. I'm talking about in Utah after he got arrested there. (I don't think Ann Rule is Mormon, but it seems like she knew him through work or living in the same neighborhood or something. Been a lot of years since I read her book about it.)

Ann worked a suicide hot line with Bundy.

 

[yawningreyhound]

Sorry deleted probably not allowed ..

I'm pretty sure it was in the collection of information on the news page of WS, i just can't find it.

 

[Nosurprise]

I'm pretty sure it was in the collection of information on the news page of WS, i just can't find it.

Thank you

 

[fred&edna]

I have sooo many legal questions about this bail reduction hearing. Does the state bear the burden (more so than they did last week) of proving in court today that she IS a flight risk, as well as a harm to a person/society?

 

[KonaHonu]

Since the general public is not privy to the information shared or known by LE, prosecutors and judges, we should trust that the high bail amount is there for a reason. MOO

Of course. But the Hawaii judge can only rely on what is presented in open court.

 

[KonaHonu]

Again, are you on their defense team?

Not on her defense team and am not defending her. Just observing that the bail amount is extremely high for Hawaii. That's ok but if the case drags on because Idaho doesn't act fast enough to follow the process I could see the judge reducing it. Remember, the prosecutor asked for a hearing date at least a week later and the judge denied that. I definitely don't think teh judge will reduce bail to a point Lori/Chad can afford.

 

[Christ is Truth]

My views on the probability of Lori's childhood trauma is based upon my opinions and my expertise in this area. It is conjecture that it could play a part in her behaviors. I am only having a conversation. FBI creates profiles all the time on criminals based upon prior information from other criminals because they need to understand the person to arrive at a motive. They were met with lots of skepticism but it is now common practice. I am putting it to rest now, however, as there seem to be some strong opinions; to me, it is conversation i have all the time at the office regarding clients. I apologize for making assumptions about my audience here or being insensitive.

FWIW I appreciate your perspective. Maybe prefacing your comments with “Generally speaking” would help keep the sensitive ones from being triggered.

Could we not wait for more information to come in before we assume that Lori's actions are the result of childhood trauma?

I think perhaps you are taking what i am saying personally.

I don’t understand why the push back. Many people on here voice opinions (hence MOO, JMO, IMO, etc.) and act like armchair psychiatrists/profilers/attorneys/etc. so what is different that caseface is triggering these reactions?

 

[raysgirl1126]

"CHAD VISITS: Hawaii DPS says Lori Vallow’s husband Chad Daybell visited her for one hour Tuesday afternoon at KCCC. Wardens can hold separate visits when “high profile situation creates higher than normal levels of attention, traffic & security straign for our small jail facilities."

Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix

 

[KonaHonu]

LV clearly is a flight / evasion risk, demonstrated by the way she ran from LE to Hawaii, then refused to comply with Court orders.

I am surprised there is any bail? Or does it have to be set?

Hawaii only allows "no bail" for death penalty, life in prison and similarly serious cases (HRS 832-14, 15, 16) and the judge has great discretion. The attorneys debated in the hearing whether the Idaho felonies meet the standard of serious crimes in Hawaii. They agreed they translate roughly as class B felonies based on the potential prison time (10 years max in Hawaii). B felonies in Hawaii typically get a bail of about $10,000. This was all argued in the hearing.

Here is some information about bail in Hawaii:
https://acluhawaii.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/aclu-of-hawaii-bail-report.pdf

"Like the U.S. Constitution, the Hawai‘i Constitution prohibits “excessive bail” but does not guarantee an absolute right to bail in all cases. In this context, the Supreme Court of Hawai‘i has stated that “bail is not excessive merely because [an] arrestee is unable to pay it, ‘but he is entitled to an opportunity to make it in a reasonable amount.’” In Sakamoto v. Won Bae Chang, the Hawai‘i Supreme Court held that where the state failed to show a likelihood of conviction of murder in the first degree, where the trial court found the arrestee to be “not [a] man of means,” and where there was no evidence presented that indicated that the arrestee would not be present for future proceedings, a bail set at $300,000 violated the state constitutional provision prohibiting excessive bail. The Supreme Court ultimately reduced the bail to $100,000. The Supreme Court of Hawai‘i has also interpreted Article I Section 12 as protecting against unreasonable or arbitrary denial of bail. Judges cannot infer from the arrestee’s criminal indictment alone a need for bail in an unusually high amount, such as in Sakamoto, where bail was set at $300,000 because of the arrestee’s murder charge. Such acts are deemed arbitrary."

BBM

In summary, even $300,000 has been deemed by the Hawaii Supreme Court to be excessive even for a murder charge in Hawaii.

 

[utahobserver]

Dang! Records all the way back to August 1 of last year for both of them. I’m very curious why they’re going back that far in time.

https://scontent.fsjc1-3.fna.fbcdn....=b9ae79821f7fd38ce150cb0fcae53950&oe=5EF572D7

Oh, boy, didn't realize until I just read the subpoena paperwork that any info the landlord has in regard to CD is required as well.

THAT'S SO AWESOME!

Premeditation. I bet they booked their stinking rooms in August 2019. Before Tammy's death, before JJ & Tylee went missing.

 

[indicolite22]

I don’t understand why the push back. Many people on here voice opinions (hence MOO, JMO, IMO, etc.) and act like armchair psychiatrists/profilers/attorneys/etc. so what is different that caseface is triggering these reactions?

For me it was the use of "obvious" instead of "possible", despite the absence of corroborating evidence in this case so far.

 

[KonaHonu]

As far as I researched on extradition by airflight, she will fly with 2 marshalls in the very last row, with her by the window, 1 marshall next to her and one in the front of the other marshall. she will be handcuffed and possibly leg shackled.

Oh my, those poor marshalls - middle seat in the back of the plane for 6 hours! They are the ones being punished!

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

Hawaii only allows "no bail" for death penalty, life in prison and similarly serious cases (HRS 832-14, 15, 16) and the judge has great discretion. The attorneys debated in the hearing whether the Idaho felonies meet the standard of serious crimes in Hawaii. They agreed they translate roughly as class B felonies based on the potential prison time (10 years max in Hawaii). B felonies in Hawaii typically get a bail of about $10,000. This was all argued in the hearing.

Here is some information about bail in Hawaii:
https://acluhawaii.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/aclu-of-hawaii-bail-report.pdf

"Like the U.S. Constitution, the Hawai‘i Constitution prohibits “excessive bail” but does not guarantee an absolute right to bail in all cases. In this context, the Supreme Court of Hawai‘i has stated that “bail is not excessive merely because [an] arrestee is unable to pay it, ‘but he is entitled to an opportunity to make it in a reasonable amount.’” In Sakamoto v. Won Bae Chang, the Hawai‘i Supreme Court held that where the state failed to show a likelihood of conviction of murder in the first degree, where the trial court found the arrestee to be “not [a] man of means,” and where there was no evidence presented that indicated that the arrestee would not be present for future proceedings, a bail set at $300,000 violated the state constitutional provision prohibiting excessive bail. The Supreme Court ultimately reduced the bail to $100,000. The Supreme Court of Hawai‘i has also interpreted Article I Section 12 as protecting against unreasonable or arbitrary denial of bail. Judges cannot infer from the arrestee’s criminal indictment alone a need for bail in an unusually high amount, such as in Sakamoto, where bail was set at $300,000 because of the arrestee’s murder charge. Such acts are deemed arbitrary."

BBM

In summary, even $300,000 has been deemed by the Hawaii Supreme Court to be excessive even for a murder charge in Hawaii.

But she is only IN Hawaii because she fled there (perhaps, it could be argued, because she knew bail was so low). Are there any cases cited in Hawaii where there is in fact very good reason to believe she would not be present, and what is the bail for those cases? Moo.
Edited to remove part of a quote I was going to respond to earlier. <3

 

[SeattleStew]

I'm pretty sure it was in the collection of information on the news page of WS, i just can't find it.

Isn't Gray Hughes an authorized podcast source? Or is that just for Abby and Libby?

 

[Anonymous91]

still not totally clear...but no, clearly knew JR was adoptive parent of CR... I just think we are made to feel that JR was scummy....and I feel that was not the case...because I "feel" that she has been a "bad seed" forever, and knew her looks and lies would always bail her out!!

I feel the same way. Just look at what happened at the Jodi Arias trial. There was overwhelming evidence that she was not only guilty, but that it was premeditated. Yet, it had a hung jury twice.

I am 100% convinced it was because she was a female. If the circumstances were the same, and this was a male, the jury would have come back with the death penalty.

MOO