Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #23

[Gardener1850]

@BigAl16 is an experienced member. I'm a new one and have learned to respect the seriousness of this discussion. For me, that means not posting anything until I have carefully reviewed the relevance to the entire group here. They/we are trying to contribute to the body of verifiable information on the disappearance of Tylee and JJ. I notice that @Gardener1850 posts carefully crafted comments that are really helpful and I bet it's because he/she weighs words and information carefully before posting. JMO we're not in a position to feel condescended to if we newbies don't approach this with the seriousness that experienced members do

How nice of you to say. Thank you, and welcome to Websleuths, Nurse Gen!
I do try to make my statements clear as much as possible. I'm also usually aware that this is an international board. Sometimes it helps to say the same thing in more than one way. If someone is always misunderstanding posts, it may be a language barrier. Sometimes you won't be able to work out a misunderstanding or a conflict. We have the options to ignore, report the post if you think someone is being rude or scroll and roll.

MOO.

 

[Anonymous91]

Two things at work here, so figuring out what a study is showing you can be interesting because either or both might apply.

First, a religious person is more likely to think they are "addicted to " or have a view problem even if they are viewing it exactly as much as a non-religious person who doesn't think they have a problem.

vs. Religion

But there is also lots of things indicating religious people actually do resort to watching more. (Figuring out why that might be should be trivial, so I won't.)

15 Mind-Blowing Statistics About And The Church

I mentioned Utah being worse than other states and finding articles saying so is trivial. Here is one:

Which State Consumes The Most Online ?

However, I just found this article that argues the study that is cited in those articles about Utah's problem has issues. I'll let you read and decide on your own.

Is Utah #1 in Use?

I think it should also be mentioned some of the dynamics particular to the LDS community.

is viewed by some as "cheating on your spouse", some believe that having a full blown affair is better than viewing .

In general, when wives want to divorce their husbands because of his " addiction", this is considered a valid reason to divorce.

It is conveniently ignored (among some) that we all have sin, we are all sinners, we all need Christ. Apparently those that sin "differently" this doesn't seem to apply. JMO

Never mind that statistically that there is at least 50% of men in the church has an issue with . There are bishops that believe that this number is much, much higher. JMO

Funny enough, the church also reports that close to 50% of women also struggle with this addiction. However, that seems to be a taboo(off-limit) topic, that no one dares to talk about.

This leads to the man being publicly humiliated by his former wife, when she tells everyone who will listen why she left her husband.

My personal opinion only, is that the church doesn't handle this situation in the best way. There is a lot of misunderstanding about this as well.

There are some misinformed members that assume that all you have to do is to stop looking at , they don't understand why it isn't just that easy.

That's like telling a drug addict, it's easy just stop taking drugs.

Nevermind, that science is showing that the brain on has the same brain patterns of someone addicted to gateway drugs. Both reinforce the pleasure center of the brain. There is serious science that shows how difficult it is to overcome, some scientists believe that overcoming drugs and alcohol is easier than overcoming . This is never discussed at church though.

Maybe, that was why CD and TD were having marital issues, she found his web browsing history. MOO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Gosh, not sure I'll ever catch up with these threads, lol.

I hate to say this because I realize there are still a few people out there hoping that JJ and Tylee are okay, but with the news that LE/FBI plan on searching Yellowstone area when it thaws, AND because CD was a grave digger for many years, I think it's important to share what I've found researching this from different angles..

There is a place near Chads home just outside of Rexburg where in 2015 according to Chads website, he and his family (parents/ sibling/ kids etc.) Vacationed called Island Point in ID. It's just north and off Rt 20. Chad claims this is the place where "God" first spoke to him and told him he would move to Idaho... There are lots of deeply wooded spaces in the area not to mention a big lake, and he knows it well... (Several pictures taken both with his kids and his wife Tammy at this location) I believe if he were burying either remains or even weapons, he would chose an area he was familiar with, that is not often searched. Plus Rt 20 is the way he would likely drive to Yellowstone. I'm just hoping LE may have some GPS or cell tower info that places them in either this area, OR just a bit further north again near Rt. 20 at a trail called Bottleneck Lake hiking trail.
Why Bottleneck... This is an area local hikers in Id say is remote and less traveled then many other trails. This is a place CL and his kids have also been (as per website) Also (and take this with a huge grain of Salt) a well known Medium, who has both worked in LE, and helped them in missing persons cases previously,( I spoke to her and if any family or close friends in this case wish to contact her, she will freely read for them directly), had a vision about this case, she has several Youtubes (not sure how to post them, or if anyone would even be interested) with what exactly she picked up on the two children... And, she does believe they are no longer alive. I could explain more of the details but not sure anyone here cares to hear them because obviously it's Opinion Only. BUT maybe just maybe there is some kind of evidence or record of Chad or Lori or even Tylee's Cell phone being near these area's. Because LE are starting to search for remains or will be at the thaw, I felt it important to post here in the hopes that maybe it will help and someone who knows the area will read it.

Sending love and prayers, to JJ and Tylee and everyone who loves them!!

TLDR, JMO, MOO!

 

[wwb]

MOO I grew up in the LDS Church. One thing that I haven't seen brought up (and of course I may have missed it, so please correct me if so) is Pioneer Day Pioneer Day - Wikipedia

It's celebrated July 24th, the day that Brigham Young crossed into the Salt Lake Valley. The thing is though, Young was ill, and the majority of his group went ahead and entered the valley on July 22* which is a date that I've seen mentioned quite a bit around here MOO

MOO Here's my super speculation: Young entered the valley with 148** pioneers. I wonder how many went on ahead? If Young and 4 others waited, then 144 would have been the advance group. 144 people can't repopulate the earth, but maybe 144,000 could. It seems interesting to me that these numbers have a possible link to some of the Daybells' current beliefs MOOOOOO

*https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1958&context=facpub

**https://www.history.com/news/why-the-mormons-settled-in-utah

edit: grammar

 

[alter idem]

So the higher the temple or church, the better.

That's not accurate. Temples usually have an Angel Moroni on top, because our Tradition is that the Angel Moroni gave Joseph Smith the gold plates (which was translated to become the Book of Mormon) and ushered in a restoration of the Gospel. They make the temple spire tall, because it's a religious edifice, like a Cathedral, which are also usually tall, and it fits architecturally, but in some areas, there are zoning laws, so the spire is shorter, sometimes there is no Angel Moroni statue. Also, they aren't always built on a hill, there are many that built in valleys.

 

[tresir2012]

I only made it 6 mins in... good luck

Let us all know what you think of what you heard.

 

[alter idem]

Seminary. Basically formalized religious instruction for teens. At least in Utah the normal is from 9th grade through 12th for it to be available. Most places do this as an early morning instruction like what was described for Lori. But some places (Utah and SE Idaho, for sure) there are seminary buildings that appear to be part of the campus at the high school and junior highs, but technically it turns out the land and building are owned by the church (how that gets worked out, I don't know). Kids who wish to attend seminary are then "released" one period a day during the school day to attend a seminary class. It isn't technically part of the government sponsored public school program, you don't get credits toward high school graduation, but it is integrated into the school program, if that makes sense.

I attended seminary when I was a teen in California. We held it at our church building in the morning before school. That's usually the case for places outside Utah and Idaho, that don't have as many members of the church, but where there are a lot of members, they often have a seminary building near the school (can't attend church classes in a school because of laws against it) I never thought it was weird, because my Catholic friends (there were a lot at my High School) also had religious classes during the week. I guess maybe it seems weird now, since not as many people these days are attend religious services.

 

[wwb]

I attended seminary when I was a teen in California. We held it at our church building in the morning before school. That's usually the case for places outside Utah and Idaho, that don't have as many members of the church, but where there are a lot of members, they often have a seminary building near the school (can't attend church classes in a school because of laws against it) I never thought it was weird, because my Catholic friends (there were a lot at my High School) also had religious classes during the week. I guess maybe it seems weird now, since not as many people these days are attend religious services.

BBM

MOO - are we the same person? This was my exact experience, too. MOO

 

[CSIDreamer]

Here is a question that has been gnawing at me lately. The lawyer called her Miss/Ms. Vallow. When I checked the offender records to see if she was still incarcerated in Hawaii, she is listed under LV. Which would have to be under her legal name? Did she keep her last name - WHY? Did they actually legally get married? I don’t think anyone has seen a marriage certificate yet?

That's basically an "alias". Her extradition papers say (and I can't remember the order it's listed) Lori Norene Vallow a.k.a Lori Norene Daybell. They're definitely married. Jmo

 

[LDS social scientist]

I hope it is just that FBI has told LI to stay away from investigating the Cult group.

Yes, you're right. It becomes complicated because of the multi-state nature of things (and only certain patterns can be seen through taking multi-state issues into account). If nothing about Lori had been out in the ether, I think it's likely that AZ LE would probably be disinclined to take the cult charge very seriously, at least at first. And maybe that's the way they're required to approach it since the two cases are technically separate.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I

More to do with it being a sacred place.

You can actually walk through a temple before it is dedicated (no temple recommend required). It is a guided tour, and is quite beautiful.

After the temple has been dedicated, then for the most part you have to have a temple recommend to enter. Exceptions are made for LEO, medics, and other practical reasons.

It is commonly believed that since only members that are doing their best are attending (at least, in theory) this becomes a holy place, that has not been tainted by the sins of the world. A reprieve from the world, and all of our temporal issues.

The primary functions a temple is used for is: Baptism for the dead (via proxy), temple endowments, sealings (marriage), and works for the dead (via proxy).

Sidenote: In the SLC temple there is a unique room called the "Holy of Holies" from what I have been told, this is where only the prophet can enter. I think the bible (OT) references something similar. Other than that, I don't know anything else about this room.

Hopefully that explains it a bit more. MOO

am still overwhelmed by these huge buildings. Is that all that actually goes on in all that architecture??

 

[divineappt]

I second this.

One of the problems is that you have the surface level stuff, then you got the deep doctrine stuff. Members are given a lot of leeway on what they teach.

I can't tell you how many times I have heard incorrect beliefs and doctrine being taught at church to all of the active members attending. What is really surprising, is that there are those in high leadership positions that are guilty of this too. MOO

Now, if one doesn't know any better, I can see how this can be dangerous.

The gospel tends to be dumbed down for children to understand it better, but sometimes that leads to having a misunderstanding of very important doctrinal principles.

So, for example, there is a Primary song "Follow The Prophet" (Follow the Prophet). This is taught to young children, and there are many that grow up knowing this song by heart.

What the official Church's position is that we believe in Christ, that he is our salvation and our rock. Our living prophet is there to guide us, and provide prophecy from God as directed. Prophets have warned against "blind faith", We are encouraged to study, ponder, and pray to receive our own testimonies. Faith is an individual process for each of us.

That being said, you rarely hear this. I have heard members say to follow the prophet and to not question it.

As you can see, this can be confusing if you don't understand the whole picture.

Now you have some that believe that you have blind faith in prophets, and are unaware that this is not a correct principle. MOO

There are plenty of other doctrines in the church this can be applied to also.

You get enough of this going on and being enforced by parents, you have religious beliefs that are not even part of the LDS religion. At this point, it's not much of a stretch to see how this could spiral out of control.

This is just my opinion. MOO

This can be said about any religion or denomination - I have seen it many times myself.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Thank you too!! I so agree, finding the kids whether alive or passed on, is the most important. Chad def. knows IMO.

I might be able to help you with where Chad stayed, According to his brother?! (same tubing pic's etc) Chads mom rented a cabin in the Bills Island area of Island Park and the falls are up river near a place called Henry's Fork, I think.

Any potential area's that link to CV I think are helpfull! <3

Do you mean CD...or CV?

 

[nhmemorymaker]

omg reading this i just had a sudden thought-- ive been trying to work out that remark overheard by the neighbor too and couldnt make it fit the context before BUT WHAT IF 'bringing shame on The Whole Family' had everything to do with this NEW *FAMILY* (cult) they had both become thoroughly a part of?
i'm listening to The Podcast on soundcloud today, so far only about 1/4 way through...having to take in small chunks and then a break, much of the lingo is rather triggering for me... one thing really stands out tho is how many Youre One Of Us Now references there are. This didnt start at Lori's new involvement! Altho granted she and Chad *may* have ultimately taken it all to awhole new level...

yep. Could be... "the new family" so screwing up on a first attempt to off Charles would make sense as a disgrace.

 

[BigAl16]

Don't get me started on the degrading music.

My first exposure to Metal was in Church. Our teacher played a song many will know:

AC/DC - Hells Bells

Then he spent the rest of the lesson teaching us that "metal" is the devil's music. The only thing I took away, is that I really liked that song, and I was hooked. LOL

So far, I have not sacrificed any goats, so I think I am safe. (Please read this as satire).

Fun Fact: The author for Twilight has stated that her novel was a modern retelling of "Romeo & Juliet". The irony of this, that she didn't realize, is that Shakespeare had wrote this as a tragic satire. He was actually poking fun at Romeo and Juliet's relationship.
Hopefully we don't see CD & LVD try to reenact this.

Apparently modern Pop music is fine, from what I have heard. Sadly, my sons attended a Stake Dance (for youth between ages 14-18), and the DJ played the entire track from Frozen. They never wanted to go to a church dance again.

It's possible that CD and LVD could be influenced by the music they were listening to. I will admit that it would be a very weak influence at best though. MOO

Come on Anon91, let it go.

MOO

 

[janx]

Don't get me started on the degrading music.

My first exposure to Metal was in Church. Our teacher played a song many will know:

AC/DC - Hells Bells

Then he spent the rest of the lesson teaching us that "metal" is the devil's music. The only thing I took away, is that I really liked that song, and I was hooked. LOL

So far, I have not sacrificed any goats, so I think I am safe. (Please read this as satire).

Fun Fact: The author for Twilight has stated that her novel was a modern retelling of "Romeo & Juliet". The irony of this, that she didn't realize, is that Shakespeare had wrote this as a tragic satire. He was actually poking fun at Romeo and Juliet's relationship.
Hopefully we don't see CD & LVD try to reenact this.

Apparently modern Pop music is fine, from what I have heard. Sadly, my sons attended a Stake Dance (for youth between ages 14-18), and the DJ played the entire track from Frozen. They never wanted to go to a church dance again.

It's possible that CD and LVD could be influenced by the music they were listening to. I will admit that it would be a very weak influence at best though. MOO

This is hilarious. And I agree--pop music makes me cringe. I hate going to Walgreens.

ETA: I must point out though--when I was growing up, my fam sporadically attended what is now considered a "liberal" church. But every Christmas, it was the Mormon Tabernacle Choir all the way. I still listen to them during the holidays. Gorgeous.

 

[LDS social scientist]

I attended seminary when I was a teen in California. We held it at our church building in the morning before school. That's usually the case for places outside Utah and Idaho, that don't have as many members of the church, but where there are a lot of members, they often have a seminary building near the school (can't attend church classes in a school because of laws against it) I never thought it was weird, because my Catholic friends (there were a lot at my High School) also had religious classes during the week. I guess maybe it seems weird now, since not as many people these days are attend religious services.

It seems that the consensus of the LDS people who have commented on this is that seminary attendance was nothing out of the ordinary. LDS young people who attended seminary, such as Lori, would have been regarded as devout, but not unusually so. (So, just to scratch an itch, so to say, here's one place where we need to go beyond MSM reports in order to have a fuller understanding, since it seems that the MSM report that started this all could be interpreted to mean that Lori's seminary attendance marked her as abnormally devout from an early age.) There's nothing particular about seminary attendance, MOO, that might have predisposed Lori to the directions she seemed to take later as an adult.

 

[Anonymous91]

Indicolite22 posted on Thread #22, page 61, post 1204:
Melani's lawyer said after her court appearance (seen in Justin Lum's video) that the media should not be taking Charles' divorce statements that Lori claimed she was a god as fact. It looks like they are not only defending Melani, but Lori as well.

Neither of these lawyers are listed with Idaho Bar. Attorney Roster Search
Mr. Jarvis seems to specialize in criminal law, so it will be interesting how he pursues such a contentious family litigation.
Interesting tidbit here on Mr. Smith, Esq. : Garrett Smith | Mesa, AZ, Maricopa County Attorney

Apparently, they also believe that when CV told his lawyer and close family "if he ends up dead Lori & Alex did it" this is also not fact. (I made this up, but it's just as idiotic as what they are claiming). MOO

 

[Whaddayano]

Or maybe it was the other way around: She wasn't good at finding balance, and then became a person of extremes.

from all i've seen her old friends (before the madness set in) have said-- (which mostly still cannot be discussed here, until it shows up in MSM) --it does seem like this is more likely the case. fwiw, same dynamic seems likely for chad. moo, hardcore meltdown mode seems to have occurred largely after the two got together, moo

 

[tresir2012]

I

am still overwhelmed by these huge buildings. Is that all that actually goes on in all that architecture??

I just found and read this article about Mormon temples. As I am not LDS I found it quite interesting and educational. I think i understand about the temples now. It's a long article.

How Mormon Temples Got Their Distinctive Look - CityLab