Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #34

[DI_Isokawa]

Lori described JJ's mannerisms and statements to MG as zombie-like. I found it interesting that JJ became a zombie just one day before MG's visit. That would have been on September 18.

She did say that Lori and Chad killed thousands of zombies at a time using their portal rituals.

Do you have evidence that MG's visit was Sep 19-23? Not disputing, just trying to resolve differences. My timeline shows the most likely time for MG's visit (which she said was from a Thursday to Monday) would have been Sep 12-16? I say this because I have Lori hiring a babysitter on Sep 19, and MG said that Alex was watching JJ when she was there.

 

[FindingJoLee]

No, SSI would definitely be calculated based on the parents' income, as long as he is a dependent. They would be WAY above the means tested threshold.
I can see close to $5000+ if there was indeed a stipend provided for JJ's adoption (no proof of this whatsoever, but just as a possibility) -- ~$2000 each child for survivor's benefits (which is completely in the ballpark of the people I know that receive it) and perhaps ~$1000 for the stipend. Moo.

Well, I do have a dependent child who gets a partial SSI payment based on his income, so I'm not sure that is totally correct. But I guess I'm really more interested in a) whether the incomes involved here are being accurately portrayed (I have some big doubts about that) and b) more important, whether Lori is accessing (read: spending) money intended for her children after their father's deaths. <-- That is just such disgusting behavior and I'm totally troubled by it.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

This is infuriating because we saw it happening the day Lori went in to report her purse stolen. I know that guy was a rookie, but since so much of police work involves dealing with destruction wrought by sociopaths, you'd think early recognition of the tactics of such people would be in the training.

Which brings to mind an inconsistency I noted in this latest part of the MG interview: I thought that Lori went to submit to a psych evaluation at Community Bridges AFTER she had that interview in the police department, but in this latest interview, MG seems to say that Lori had been mentally evaluated BEFORE they went into the police department.

I noticed the same thing. The police reports document that it was after. I think MG just misremembered, easy to do with so much drama.

Edit: Cleared up in earlier post. MG said "after."

Edit: Deleted duplicate post. Not doing so well this afternoon

 

[longtimereader]

Now why does she feel sorry for Lori not being able to be with Chad? That is crazy - MG herself says it was a fatal attraction that ended with people dying. Why does she have any sympathy for either of them? She should be so angry at them both now. And at them using and trying to make an accomplice out of her.

I recognized that when she was quoting the Bible and explaining what she knew to be Biblical truths that she had deviated from, that she was sharing her current mainstream Christian beliefs. If that is the case then she would also extend grace and mercy to those that may have hurt her or done bad things. The love would be unconditional love which is also Biblical. The verses that support this would be "I love because He first loved me" and "While we were yet sinners Christ died for me."

 

[Nurse Gen]

And maybe LE offered immunity for her disclosure?

 

[Onsdag]

I had never heard of multiple mortal probations before this case, but it turns out I have a family member who is very familiar with the idea. She is also involved with some energy healing work and other things/groups that have been mentioned previously, including having read at least one book by Chad. (Didn’t know any of this before Feb this year). She meets with a group of friends in Utah often to discuss “gospel” topics. I think some of the beliefs are more widespread than regular church members would imagine. MOO

Yes, these fringe unorthodox beliefs are far more widespread throughout the LDS community (at least here in the Intermountain West) than one might realize. I believe we've only seen the tip of the iceburg. I have family and friends who are into various forms of Energy Healing and I've tried to warn them for years now when I first learned of it through AVOW and Julie Rowe, who is one of Chad's published authors. It is, in my opinion a dangerous road to be traveling down. This multiple mortal probations doctrine is equally false and dangerous, but a more recent addition to these groups. JR has been excommunicated over these beliefs (among other things), and now we are seeing the fruits of Chad and Lori embracing such damnable practices.

I realize this may be a bit of a sidetrack from the case at hand and helping to find Tylee and JJ, but at the same time it has everything to do with this current case. It is the foundation and driving force of what led us to where we are now. And my purpose in bringing it up is to denounce it and hopefully prevent other cases like this from happening. Multiple Mortal Probations, Energy Healing, Wife/Husband Swapping, and all other practices which many in these groups (and there really is no organized group per se) embrace and practice have no place among the saints and followers of Christ. They are the doctrines of devils and deceiving spirits. Never will you hear anything from the leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in support of these evil practices. On the contrary, they have continually warned about looking beyond the mark and extreme beliefs such as these. The gospel of Jesus Christ is simple and pure.

I'm sorry for going off on a tangent, but I do feel really strongly about this and I want more than anything to prevent even more tragedies like this case from happening in the future. But I fear this won't be the last. I really do hope that someone, somewhere, will listen and take heed to Melanie Gibb's warnings and turn away from this rubbish and repent before it's too late for them as well.

All MOO.

Edited: formatting issues.

 

[CSIDreamer]

They may have been sealed in HI temple after the legal ceremony on beach.

Probably answered. MG made it clear they were sealed while CV was still alive as I interpret it. Jmo

 

[FindingJoLee]

I recognized that when she was quoting the Bible and explaining what she knew to be Biblical truths that she had deviated from, that she was sharing her current mainstream Christian beliefs. If that is the case then she would also extend grace and mercy to those that may have hurt her or done bad things. The love would be unconditional love which is also Biblical. The verses that support this would be "I love because He first loved me" and "While we were yet sinners Christ died for me."

I really think this is what she was trying to get at.

It was hard to hear. At least for me, as someone who is not anywhere near finished with my anger about what's happened. I'm impressed that Melanie can do any work toward forgiving these people while the children are still missing. I really can't yet.....

 

[Love Never Fails]

I agree, I think Lori was feeling Melanie out.
I did get the creeps that Alex was watching JJ and I also felt a chill of fear for MG being alone with Alex. Chilling also that MG says Alex believes this stuff, makes what MelaniBP said about Alex even more believable in this mess. (MBP said Alex had faith and no task was to difficult) I believe if this did not come out when it did more lives (prob more young lives) would be lost.
Hopefully some of the Chad believers are doing some soul searching.
I was troubled by what MG said too at the end about loving Chad and Lori etc but now I think she was trying to appeal to them from a friend who loves them to come clean and save themselves. All jmo
They are staying away from any Melani questions curious if Nate will bring her up or if she is off limits.

Nate brought up Melani in part one. She said she loved her and they “were” close. Don’t know about now.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I just watched the video of Charles talking to police in trying to find out where Lori had gone to and taken the children. This was the first time I have had the chance to see it. IMO, I’m disgusted about how casually and poorly the police handled this situation. They even handled Charles death investigation poorly. What’s up with them?

Just who were they trying to protect and serve anyway?

 

[Onsdag]

I am not LDS and agree/ I didn't think a temple sealing ceremony was done on the fly. I wondered if they could have arranged it before they were in the public eye. Could someone who is LDS tell us if it is possible that someone could be sealed in a temple somewhere that might be used to destination weddings or with the proper approval given from your home bishop? Since they attended church on the island and were in HI for some time before becoming public figures, maybe they could have taken part in the ceremony then? If they appeared to be sweet widowed people that got a 2nd chance at love and just wanted to have their union sealed before God and HI temple is uses to destination type marriages, would that be a possibility? Or maybe they are not sealed in the proper channels?

Not having gone through the process myself yet I can't speak with any kind of certainty. However, as I understand it, part of the process of getting a temple sealing involves visiting with the Bishop and/or Stake President (likely both) of both the bride and groom, to ascertain worthiness, make sure everything is in proper order (e.g. they're not currently married to someone else), etc. I can't speak as to Lori's situation, where her records were and all that, but at least for Chad his records were still in Rexburg. His Bishop and Stake President would have known Tammy, would have known she had just died, and, I think I can say with some certainty, would have never signed off on him getting remarried so soon after Tammy's death. It would have sent up huge red flags and they would have probably started talking with him about getting an excommunication rather than a sealing. JM uneducated O.

 

[Tortoise]

The welfare check was at the end of November. Friends and family knew their mobile phone numbers, presumably, but no one rang them to ask where the kids were for two months? Why not?

I think they dumped their phones when they fled. Ian's notes say he waited for incoming calls from them, when he was recording them.

moo

 

[Nurse Gen]

The problem is, what info did MG have at that time to know that Tylee wasn't attending BYU as Lori told her? MG was only visiting Rexburg for a long weekend it seems and she apparently didn't question that story at the time. Also, she apparently didn't even know Tylee's real age as she mentions in the interview something about Tylee getting her GED "at age 16 or 17" -- Getting her GED at age 17 would have been impossible since Tylee disappeared before her 17th birthday in Sept 2019. If MG thought Tylee already turned 18 in Sept 2019, then it's not that strange that an 18 year old would go to college and live in the dorms rather than with her mom. But Tylee was still only 16 when she disappeared. I'm guessing Lori lied about Tylee's age while she was friends with MG in AZ to make Tylee older than she was. If so, it's even more evidence of premeditation now that we look back on it-- Lori was already planning early to tell people Tylee was away at school as a cover story for where Tylee was when she was missing-- she told the dog trainer and some relatives the same lie about Tylee going to BYU and even told police detectives after CV's death that Tylee was planning to go to BYU-Hawaii. Most people don't jump to thinking someone murdered their daughter when the mom says the daughter moved out to go to college. I am curious if MG got told that Tylee was a zombie as so far she hasn't mentioned that...

MOO.

But Lori told MG that JJ was a zombie at a time that MG ALREADY KNEW that LV & CD were KILLING ALL OF THE ZOMBIES as their "mission"
JMO but I agree with @GoneGoldfishin' . It's sickening that MG didn't have the good sense to contact the Rexburg LE and/or CPS. As a nurse who has worked with a lot of dysfunctional families, this was appalling negligence on MG's part. Had she been a Mandated Reporter such as a teacher or nurse, she'd be in trouble for that failure.
Glad she did the right thing eventually but it's devastating that she failed to do it in a timely manner that could have saved JJ. JMO

 

[FindingJoLee]

And how often is "the truth" and "god" is on my side used as a reason......

I was discussing this case with my husband last night. (I could probably say that every day.). I was telling him that this is a first for me: Two people are excusing their affair by explaining that God had put them together multiple times before; that they were meant to be together so they would soon be together again; AND that their spouses would one day come to understand their behavior. That truly has to be an addendum to the Affairs 101 handbook, right? I didn't think there could be any original material in there, but this explanation is a new one....

 

[Deerrun]

Do you have evidence that MG's visit was Sep 19-23? Not disputing, just trying to resolve differences. My timeline shows the most likely time for MG's visit (which she said was from a Thursday to Monday) would have been Sep 12-16? I say this because I have Lori hiring a babysitter on Sep 19, and MG said that Alex was watching JJ when she was there.

The day Lori hired a babysitter is the day MG arrived, Lori picked her up from the airport. She introduced MG to the babysitter.

 

[OGDiva]

It requires a separate recommend (with interview) to be sealed to your spouse. You can't use your normal, every-other-year interview for this.

And if the new Bishop (ie: in Kauai) doesn't know Chad and Lori, it would be normal that he would make a call to the previous Bishop (ie: the one in Rexburg who had no idea that his former Executive Secretary, Chad, is suddenly in Hawaii requesting a sealing recommend to a new wife just a few weeks after Chad's wife of 35 years, died under odd circumstances AND/OR the one in Arizona who has no idea Lori is requesting a sealing recommend a few months after Charles died.)

As it turns out, we learned (from April, I believe) that Chad and Lori did meet with their new Bishop in Kauai, at least in some context (crossing paths in the hallway, a scheduled meeting in his office, something else?) to explain that the nationwide search that was underway for Lori's children was all the result of a simple misunderstanding.

Also...Lori, if she was sealed to Charles, can't be sealed to Chad.

So, I'm gonna mark this notion that they were sealed in the temple in Hawaii as "Almost certainly did not happen. Highly unlikely."

Edited to Add: Our membership records don't simply contain demographic date like birthdates and addresses. They also contain ordinance data and some other free-field notes, if needed. So there is a lot of information that gets communicated from one Bishop to another on the membership record even without phone calls. Just to make this clear, though -- most of the information I'm referring to here is NOT accessible by the average member. Most of what's available to most members *is* contact info. So, if Lori was sealed to Charles, her new Bishop would have known that.

MOO- there was no official sealing in any of the Temples. I don't think they cared about their current sealings. I believe that they, at some point held their own version of a sealing and convinced themselves that it was ordained by God because it was in a temple. I believe this is the way that they justified the wedding on the beach because they had already performed their own twisted ceremony. It is my personal belief that has been stated earlier that JM did, in fact, have some involvement in the ceremony. Again, MOO.

 

[Nurse Gen]

Quoting my own because this is another o that jumped out of another article.

Gaslighting -- Coercive Influence & Control

BBM and SBM to conserve space.

“Coercive manipulation can occur in any relationship -- intimate, friendship, work or student-related, high-demand group, family, or otherwise. An adult can be promised a better quality of life, enduring love, an easy solution to life's complex problems, a promise to actualize her dreams. Her (although it can be "his") strengths and vulnerabilities are exploited, she becomes more dependent emotionally and financially. A child in such a system may become "parentified" in role-reversal to take care of the parent's needs. It can be dangerous to assert personal rights and pursue healthy goals. Differentiation, self-autonomy and self-agency are not tolerated or diminished.

The abuser/perpetrator is good at what he does so beware! Over time anyone caught in the abuser's web internalizes inaccurate, self-limiting beliefs from traumatic experience and what the abuser declares is "right" or "True". Guilt and fear-induction is used to keep the victim in the abuser's control.”

Sound like TR? How long has this potentially been going on in this family? MOO JMO

@divineappt I'm sending you a virtual hug. Spent 15 years as a pediatric/adolescent psych RN and your 2 posts on parents with personality disorders and dysfunctional families are spot on

 

[CSIDreamer]

I think the dates have been omitted for purpose.
However, MG says she came to visit LV in Rexburg in September on Thursday and stayed until Monday, that's when she was told that JJ became zombie just 1 day before and that he will be sent to Kay.
From nanny's evidence we know that a friend was coming on September 19th, which is Thursday.
If that friend is MG, that would mean she left on Monday, September 23rd, and that would make her the last witness to see JJ, isn't that so?

ETA: In transcript to video it says:"Gibb visited Sept. 19 and remembers walking around the Brigham Young University-Idaho campus and indoor track with Lori and Chad, who were holding hands and kissing." So I suppose she indeed was the last known witness to see JJ.

Did anyone alert all ears up today during the walking at the track story?

I'm totally paraphrasing and taking creative license but this was my take away:

So, people knew Chad was married to Tammy but they were so rarely together many of them didn't know what she looked like. They assumed Lori was Tammy and no one corrected them.

Am I the only one that got that impression? Jmo

 

[Onsdag]

Didn't the supposed sealing take place when Tammy was still alive? Or have I misunderstood?

If there was a sealing Lori and Chad would have been playing make believe. The Church does not practice polygamy and Chad never would have been sealed to Lori while Tammy was still alive and married to him. Any alleged 'sealing' that would have been done would have been just as authoritative as two little kids playing house together and pretending to be married. Except at the end of the day the kids realize it's all make believe and not real.

 

[Deerrun]

Nate brought up Melani in part one. She said she loved her and they “were” close. Don’t know about now.

Ok thanks. I didn't think she was brought up. Wonder if BBs attempted murder will be brought up in ep 3. Sounds like MelanieG was friendly with Alex.