Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #34

[Etrup23]

On the otherhand, why would Lori invite Melanie to Rexburg if she had something to hide?

Melanie knows more!!!!

 

[Etrup23]

Lori Vallow will never see the light of day

 

[KonaHonu]

What good did it do CV to go to police about the same kind of claims? When he called police about his concerns about her mental instability demonstrated by these expressed beliefs AND by her extreme actions (cancelling his trip and hiding his truck, vacating the house and changing the locks, emptying the bank accounts), CV pointed out that she had their two children with her. And the police totally blew him off, saying that was her right as their mother. Quite honestly, they sounded like they thought it was "some of that weird LDS stuff" (the officer said he was not LDS so he didn't know about all this stuff) and didn't want anything to do with it.

Unfortunately this is the kind of thing arguing spouses do routinely. I bet the police get this kind of report several times a week if not several times a day. And in the end they issued some kind of order for her to get a mental evaluation and she passed it.

Personaly I think Lori is crazy because of her religious beliefs. But I have a serious problem with giving mental health people or the police the authority to commit people because of their religious beliefs.

 

[KonaHonu]

What good did it do CV to go to police about the same kind of claims? When he called police about his concerns about her mental instability demonstrated by these expressed beliefs AND by her extreme actions (cancelling his trip and hiding his truck, vacating the house and changing the locks, emptying the bank accounts), CV pointed out that she had their two children with her. And the police totally blew him off, saying that was her right as their mother. Quite honestly, they sounded like they thought it was "some of that weird LDS stuff" (the officer said he was not LDS so he didn't know about all this stuff) and didn't want anything to do with it.

Unfortunately this is the kind of thing arguing spouses do routinely. I bet the police get this kind of report several times a week if not several times a day. And in the end they issued some kind of order for her to get a mental evaluation and she passed it.

Personaly I think Lori is crazy because of her religious beliefs. But I have a serious problem with giving mental health people or the police the authority to commit people because of their religious beliefs.

 

[KonaHonu]

Melanie knows more!!!!

Totally agree!

 

[KonaHonu]

I agree. It reveals Lori's premeditation to get rid of JJ. She was just looking for an "acceptable" thing to tell her friend MG in the future as to why JJ was no longer with her. MOO.

Why wouldn't agreeing to let Kay take JJ back be acceptable? Please explain why taking on all the emotional, spiritual, and legal baggage of murder is preferable to giving in to a grandmother who is begging to take JJ. Giving JJ back to Kay was a very easy way out. No one has ever proffered a theory why she did not take that route.

 

[KonaHonu]

Tylee was soon going to be 17. IIRC (and I cannot remember where I read this here), there was some provision in the setup of her survivor benefits that indicated that when TR reached age 17, something about those benefits changed (like she got the remainder as a payout or something).

I hope you can provide evidence of this because it would be extremely important. My review of social security rules which are provided at Benefits Planner: Survivors | If You Are The Survivor | Social Security Administration

says there is no change at 17. If you have alternative information that would be very useful.

 

[KonaHonu]

True, and the accounts I hear, demon possessions look like The Exorcist movie (Which is supposedly based on actual events). Like MG was saying Christ casts out evil spirits, as do Christians.

What they are claiming as "zombies" are people that they just want to get rid of. These are normal people, I didn't see any of them having any signs of demon possession, nor has anyone ,other than possibly LVD and CD, claimed otherwise.

The thing that worries me though, is when MG said that part of their mission is to get rid of all of the zombies.

How do you get rid of the zombies? I wish Nate would have asked her that. I assume that this infers killing them, as has been alluded to previously. If I recall, they believe that once a "zombie" always a zombie, thus that would infer to get rid of a zombie, one would need to kill the zombie.

MOO

Well they did explain that. Apparently you go into a closet, say a prayer, and find out how many zombies have been kiled. Yes, I find the whole thing ridiculuous but I think their belief was explained.

 

[April_Dawn99]

I think the situation is that other people's beliefs are at some level crazy to anyone who does not share them. But we have to tolerate, accept, and at some level respect other peoples' beliefs to maintain a civil society. I think believing in zombies is pretty out there but there are places in the world where it is essentially mainstream christianity. At the same time, the religion I was raised in believes the communion wafer is truly transformed into the body of christ and the wine into his blood. I think that is both insane and cannibalistic.

I do my best not to judge someone's mental status based on what they believe. I'm not religious myself but I think judging people on their beliefs, no matter how bizzare is a dangerous slippery slope. But once they start taking actions, even with their own family, I think there are broader social concerns that come into play.

SBM
Overall I agree with you about being respectful to other peoples' beliefs up till the point when broader social concerns come into play. But when they do, I think other ethical and moral rules come into play. This is exactly the case. What is ethical - to let my friend believe that her husband and kids are zombies and should die, or question her mental health and try to provide her help to the extent I can (bring her awareness of her mental state)? Believe everything someone says because by default all my friends cannot lie or critically evaluate what others say because what I hear sounds not ok towards other people?
It's not about judgement of others for beliefs, it's about taking the correct personal action based on evaluation of probable consequences JMO

 

[Anonymous91]

I am a little confused - if Chad & Tammy were residents in Rexburg they would have attended church there together. I thought CD had just moved there like Lori and that is why they had some perceived anonymity but if that was his home he would have been recognized easily within the community. Can someone please enlighten me?

Since BYU- Idaho is mostly college kids and faculty members, as long as CD was aware that no staff members would recognize his wife, he was in the clear. From what it sounds like Tammy didn't go much of anywhere. So, Chad felt that no one would recognize them there on the BYU-Idaho campus.

MOO

 

[tresir2012]

Not having gone through the process myself yet I can't speak with any kind of certainty. However, as I understand it, part of the process of getting a temple sealing involves visiting with the Bishop and/or Stake President (likely both) of both the bride and groom, to ascertain worthiness, make sure everything is in proper order (e.g. they're not currently married to someone else), etc. I can't speak as to Lori's situation, where her records were and all that, but at least for Chad his records were still in Rexburg. His Bishop and Stake President would have known Tammy, would have known she had just died, and, I think I can say with some certainty, would have never signed off on him getting remarried so soon after Tammy's death. It would have sent up huge red flags and they would have probably started talking with him about getting an excommunication rather than a sealing. JM uneducated O.

They were sealed while both Tammy and Charles were still alive.

 

[Anonymous91]

Sorry, I should have figured that out since that's exactly what you said. (I got confused because there was some earlier discussion about whether Alex' potassium level was normal, so I had it in my mind it was a reference to that.)



You can be a Bishop after a divorce. Chad should not have worried.

Although it may be possible, I've never seen a Bishop that has been divorced either.

MOO

 

[tresir2012]

The day Lori hired a babysitter is the day MG arrived, Lori picked her up from the airport. She introduced MG to the babysitter.

And the baby sitter was not used after the 19th. JJ was then last seen on 22Sept at school.

 

[indicolite22]

I'm beginning to see things a little differently. I think Lori wanted to be with Chad. She expected Chad to move to Arizona (warm) after Tammy died in the prophesized car wreck. Once Charles was gone and she was asked to vacate the rental house she moved to Rexburg and the pressure was on Chad to get rid of Tammy and be with Lori. So she told everyone, likely including Chad that the move was about threats but I bet it was really all about going after her man. That does not mean she killed the kids or not. She may have and told Chad she has them hidden and she may really have them hidden.

BBM. People aren't objects that you can stash somewhere and forget about them until you need them again (maybe never). She told MG on September 18 that the day prior JJ had become a zombie and she proceeded to describe his behavior and statements that would confirm the assessment. Do you really think that her reaction (as if she would do anything without Chad's authorization) was to hide him away? Why? Did she find someone really quickly (he disappeared within a week) who would be willing to take care of him indefinitely and without pay? When was she going to reunite with him? Why would she take a zombie back? It makes zero sense. Chad and Lori told his parents that Lori had no minor children and others that Tylee was dead. She was never going to produce the children. There was no motive for hiding them.

ETA: After re-reading the bolded part I see that you think it's possible that Lori didn't tell Chad about killing the kids. Well, it was Chad who wanted them gone in the first place. No reason for not telling him.

 

[indicolite22]

I've been accused of putting forth wild hypotheses but usually only because they are not consistent with teh echo chamber here. So here is a wild hypothesis...

Maybe AC was supposed to kill CV in a car wreck somewhere on his way back to Gilbert in January 2019. When it did not happen, Lori left, stayed with AC and that's what led to the "disgraced the family" fight in the street. Then Lori gives him a second chance, goes to Hawaii and tells April she thinks CV is going to die (i. e., AC has been assigned to kill him while she is in Hawaii).

I know everyone here wants AC to be a killer. But reports from people who knew him say he was a gentle soul and not a killer. There was a poster here who knew him from the Phoenix comedy circuit but I think she left because of all the disparagement of AC. MG also said be was kind and pious.

Theories that require the smallest number of assumptions are more likely to be correct. Wild hypotheses usually contain more than average amount of those and sometimes they go against known facts. I think people are the most irritated when the latter happens. Some wild theories a no more than a distraction.

It's possible that Alex and Lori's argument in early 2019 was about a murder attempt on Charles, but we don't know any other circumstances, including when exactly Charles was labeled a zombie. MG was present, but didn't give the date in yesterday's interview. MG also said that Alex wasn't as devout in the beginning. As for Alex being a nice guy, even some serial killers were nice to their familes. Knowing that he strongly believed in Chad's cause at some point (no task was too difficult for him), which included elimination of zombies, it's not too difficult to conclude that he could have been the enforcer.

 

[spandangly]

I've been accused of putting forth wild hypotheses but usually only because they are not consistent with teh echo chamber here. So here is a wild hypothesis...

Maybe AC was supposed to kill CV in a car wreck somewhere on his way back to Gilbert in January 2019. When it did not happen, Lori left, stayed with AC and that's what led to the "disgraced the family" fight in the street. Then Lori gives him a second chance, goes to Hawaii and tells April she thinks CV is going to die (i. e., AC has been assigned to kill him while she is in Hawaii).

I know everyone here wants AC to be a killer. But reports from people who knew him say he was a gentle soul and not a killer. There was a poster here who knew him from the Phoenix comedy circuit but I think she left because of all the disparagement of AC. MG also said be was kind and pious.

I don't think the two sides of AxC have to be mutually exclusive. He was kind (loved his sister) and pious (willing to kill when God required it). I think the same is true of Lori, "she was such a great mom!". No, she was a cunning sociopath. She got what she wanted by acting like the best mom. When that no longer served her purpose, she switched it off like a light switch and found that having people murdered didn't bother her much at all.

I absolutely think there were multiple botched attempts at murder, that the victims themselves didn't even recognize. I think this is why Lori went to HI, to give herself an alibi. But she couldn't keep herself from subconsciously leaking the murder plot into her conversation with AR. I think ARs recruitment was secondary. Notice there was no real push or effort to draw her in. The only botched attempts we know of are BB and TD, but there were IMO absolutely more.

 

[MadTing]

Was there any reason given as to why Chad couldn’t divorce Tammy?

That makes him seem incredibly weak. I think that weakness would have to be clear to Lori, MG, etc. What kind of super prophet can’t manage a common divorce?

I might be missing something, but I highly doubt Chad believed any of his stuff. He lied about the NDE and everything else down the line, I think.

MG said he came across as confident and shy/quite at times.

 

[MadTing]

I'm not sure about this untraceable substance that kills people, surely such a thing would be worth millions?, an untraceable substance gives people a free pass to murder that isn't tested for in autopsies surely all murderers would be using it?

I am pretty sure the people who conduct autopsies are well versed in all kinds of poisonings etc. I would be very surprised if these people somehow found a way to beat professional autopsy reports unless there was negligence when conducting the autopsy.

I can't go against the official autopsy report for alex at this point but tammy's rapid burial screams chad wanting to avoid an autopsy though. I just hope it hasn't been too long since she was buried to pick anything up on the new autopsy.

 

[watergirl62]

Also, there was a forensic expert on one of Tricia's YouTube episodes, who basically said that upon gross examination there was no need to look further i.e. the presence of the lung clot and absence of any indicator of poisoning like discoloration or characteristic odor.
And notably there was an FBI agent present at autopsy.
ETA search for posts by @Riverdoc to find where the discussions were mostly happening

That was a fascinating interview. Joseph Scott Morgan.

Also, since no one suspected any kind of poisoning when AC's autopsy was done, they did not do any toxicology to that end. And he discussed exhumation and the kinds of fluids that they might be able to test for Tammy.

 

[indicolite22]

On the otherhand, why would Lori invite Melanie to Rexburg if she had something to hide?

I bet she had no idea that Melanie would be one day doing interviews about zombies. IMO Lori didn't believe Melani would ever betray the cult. Lori lied to her about the kids' whereabouts, so she was safe.