Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #34

[FindingJoLee]

Since BYU- Idaho is mostly college kids and faculty members, as long as CD was aware that no staff members would recognize his wife, he was in the clear. From what it sounds like Tammy didn't go much of anywhere. So, Chad felt that no one would recognize them there on the BYU-Idaho campus.

MOO

Tammy had a full-time job in a public elementary school where she routinely interacted with children and their families. She was a member of a ward where she was very active. Some of the families at her school or in her ward would have older children who attend BYUI; some of the parents she interacted with a work or church might be professors there. Tammy wasn't invisible, and I just don't see how Chad could think that he couldn't possibly be recognized if he was holding hands with some not-his-wife woman while he was on campus at BYUI.

If you're LDS, you'd have to be kookoo to think you can walk onto any campus of BYU and think "I am totally invisible, nobody here could possibly know who I am." If I wanted to be invisible, a campus of BYU is about the last place I'd go. (Not sure I have ever been on campus at BYU since my student days and not run into an old friend, a friend's child, one of my cousin's kids, somebody I knew. It is super common.) And only ONE person would have needed to see Lori and Chad's behavior, only ONE person would have needed to know that Lori wasn't Tammy....I just think there were plenty of people who knew them both who could have been that one person.

 

[natsound]

MG said he came across as confident and shy/quite at times.

You mean he came across as UNconfident at times.

So who wore the pants in this relationship? One minute we're hearing Lori was doing everything Chad asked of her. The next minute we're learning Chad let Lori do all the talking and seemed unconfident.

 

[Riverdoc]

Yes, we see this all as crazy, but breaking yourself out of brainwashing is very difficult and rarely happens instantaneously. Human brains are so good at justifying our actions it's frightening. Just as any religious fanatic believes they are doing God's will, our brains contrive a scriptural basis for these things, just as @CSIDreamer pointed out their zombies is just another word for demonic possession. Some who disagree with Christianity call Jesus a zombie. And in The Book of Mormon an incapacitated drunk is murdered and justified by the scripture 1 Nephi 4:13 "Behold the Lord slayeth the wicked to bring forth his righteous purposes. It is better that one man should perish than that a nation should dwindle and perish in unbelief." Lori said she would murder Charles if he got in the way of her mission--in her mind, slaying the wicked to bring forth God's righteous purpose. The same is true with the crusades, with suicide bombers, with witch hunts, you name it. A crazy person can justify themselves with any religious beliefs, and unfortunately, setting yourself right again requires adjustments in your reality, which is an incredibly painful and ongoing process.

I think I'm one of the few who thinks CD and LVD genuinely believe what they were peddling. Or, at least, allowed themselves to believe in this fantasy they fueled in each other. I don't think it makes them insane, just believers in their own incredibly destructive religious offshoot.

All MOO.

ETA: I'm actually a little terrified by how sympathetic MG still feels towards them. But then the abused often love their abusers. I'm absolutely not trying to deflect responsibility from these people, just pointing out it's a very tangled situation.

I agree, moo. I think this is about a slippery slope, on MGs part, and where it finally clearly crossed a line in the sand was when she was requested to ‘bear false witness’. That finally gave her a clear sign that this isn’t of God. I imagine she has spent a lot of time since then examining her own path to figure out where it went astray and the anchor she found was measuring whether or not the doctrine was enhancing her family commitments, encouraging humility, and encouraging transparency. She alludes that part of the slippery slope was the allure of being ‘spiritual celebrity’ . It was this that crossed a line for April of Hawaii. I believe part of MGs motivation is to try to save the souls of the others, probably many others, that took the spiritual vanity bait.

 

[tresir2012]

3 suspicious deaths...obviously Alex and Joe Ryan are 2 of them...who is the 3rd? Is it that bankruptcy lawyer that Lori had that died unexpectedly a couple of years ago? Or am I forgetting about some other suspicious death that occurred? Maybe Stacey?

Homicide CV, 3 suspicious deaths JR, AxC and TD, and the 2 attempted murders are BB and TD probably. MOO.

 

[FindingJoLee]

Didn't need to be said twice....

 

[Tortoise]

BBM

Forgive me.. this is something I didn't know. Where did we learn this?

Also.... "why would she take a zombie back?" <---- Best statement of the day.

see points 40 and 41 in the attached affidavit of probable cause. I'm not sure of the source for the information that Lori said Tylee was deceased.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR33-20-0302/Affidavit of Probable Cause.pdf

 

[Rush4087]

Very interesting perspective, thanks for sharing.

To me it's obvious from both parts 1 & 2 that MG is still drinking the Kool Aid.

From Part 1: "I think it's fair to Charles and JJ and Tammy and Tylee that somebody is standing up for what happened to them."

You think it's "fair"? How very kind of you.

It's as if she's defending herself against criticism she might receive in the future from Chad and Lori

IMO, in Part 2 she gives the impression that everything would've been just fine (and nobody would have died?) if it hadn't been for that doctrine about multiple probation. She's now willing to admit that was dangerous doctrine. What about when all of this was going on - including when she was contacted by the police? No problem with the dangerous doctrine while on that late-returned phone call. IMO, in that instance she lied by omission.

Then after basically admitting that it was CD and LVD's dangerous doctrine that got people killed, she says "despite everything that's happened, she still loves Chad and Lori"

If that's the case, then I suggest that she still perhaps doesn't truly understand "everything that's happened"

And it sure is comforting to know that "she does feel sorrow"

 

[CSIDreamer]

You mean he came across as UNconfident at times.

So who wore the pants in this relationship? One minute we're hearing Lori was doing everything Chad asked of her. The next minute we're learning Chad let Lori do all the talking and seemed unconfident.

Still water runs deep. jmo

 

[CSIDreamer]

Regarding MG, I need to say this.

I was raised in a "holy rolling" denomination. It's very easy if you aren't mature in your faith and discernment to get swayed by every wild "new thing" that comes along.

I think MG had a lot to learn after her Chad and Lori experience. She was easily swayed. Yeah, I tend to defend her. Jmo

 

[tresir2012]

Just reposting the links to Parts 1 and 2 transcripts.

I want to emphasize this from Part 1 as it states MG has been helping LE since November and spoke with investigators several times. I have only seen the importance of this paragraph just now.

"Gibb has been working with police since November, regularly speaks with investigators and does not have an attorney. She says she does not need one because she is telling the truth, and “God is on my side.” "


Part 1: Melanie Gibb describes Chad and Lori Daybells' religious beliefs and her relationship with the couple | East Idaho News

This section I am copying below makes it clear the temple visits and sealing were in Arizona when CV was still alive.

"Gibb never saw Charles lose his temper but says he and Lori often argued. She confided in Gibb that they were having marital problems, and there was a lot of contention.

“He was trying to do things to help her and please her, and she seemed like she was struggling to be happy by that,” Gibb says. “She seemed a little frustrated with him. They had something going on that I didn’t quite understand.”

Later, Gibb met Lori’s brother, Alex Cox, and her niece, Melani Boudreaux (now Pawlowski), at the same home. Everyone got along, and Gibb describes them as a group of good friends.

“It was fun and enjoyable. Alex was fun. He was a comedian kind of guy. We talked about all kinds of stuff – sometimes spiritual stuff, sometimes nonspiritual stuff. In the beginning, it was just more casual,” Gibb says. “(Melani) was fun. I really love Melani. … She seemed that she had a lot of strife going on in her life, and she was really worried about her family.”

RELATED | Melani Pawlowski speaks about her childhood, family deaths and her sudden Las Vegas wedding

The group didn’t get together often but remained close as Chad continued to share his unusual teachings.

Doubting the beliefs
Lori eventually stopped going to church but would attend the temple as often as she could. It was her favorite place, according to Gibb, and even though she was still married to Charles, and Chad was married to Tammy, they went together.

One day, Lori told Gibb she was sealed to Chad.

Latter-day Saints believe relationships continue after death for a husband and wife who are sealed in the temple. Sealings are performed by officiators in the temple and are recorded in church records. People cannot be sealed to a second spouse if they are legally married to a living person already.

“(Lori said) they felt they were sealed by those on the other side of the veil that had the authority to do that,” Gibb says. “She said it was OK they did this because they had been married so many times before, that their (current) spouses would understand someday.” "

Part 2: Melanie Gibb describes zombies, JJ's disappearance and the 'fatal attraction' between Chad and Lori Daybell | East Idaho News

I am copying below the section in Part 2 that mentioned Sept 19th as there has been some questions about that.

"Melanie Gibb visits Rexburg
Lori moved into a townhouse in Rexburg with her two children, Joshua “JJ” Vallow and Tylee Ryan, the first week of September. Lori’s brother, Alex Cox, arrived a few days later and rented a different townhouse in the same complex. Gibb visited Sept. 19 and remembers walking around the Brigham Young University-Idaho campus and indoor track with Lori and Chad, who were holding hands and kissing.


“I said, ‘Aren’t you worried that people are going to see you?’ She says, ‘Well, Tammy doesn’t come out a lot.’ … They said a lot of people that knew Chad didn’t know what Tammy looked like because they didn’t do a lot of things together,” Gibb says.

During their walk, Alex babysat JJ at home, but Tylee was not there, and Lori never mentioned her. Weeks earlier, Gibb had spoken to Lori on the phone after she moved to Rexburg and heard Tylee yelling in the background, so she was surprised the 17-year-old was not around.

“I was told she was at (BYU-Idaho),” Gibb recalls. “I knew that Tylee had her GED, which she got when she was 16 or 17 … There were definitely question marks. It didn’t feel real. It didn’t feel like the truth. I didn’t know what to say about it. I wouldn’t assume that she had done something to her. It was unusual.”

Equally concerning was what Lori said about JJ when Gibb arrived in Idaho.

“She said that he had turned into a zombie the day before I got there, and she was pointing out behaviors of his. … She was trying to create uncertainty in me about what I saw. … I was looking at him and thought, ‘I don’t know. He looks just like JJ to me,'” Gibb says.

This wasn’t the first time Lori had spoken to Gibb about zombies."

 

[Teche]

IMO, they are likely:
1 Homicide (CV)
2 Attempted Homicides (BB, TD)
3 Suspicious Deaths (JAR, TD, AxC)
2 Missing/Endangered Children (JJV, TR)

That’s a ton of initials!

 

[Diddian]

3 suspicious deaths...obviously Alex and Joe Ryan are 2 of them...who is the 3rd? Is it that bankruptcy lawyer that Lori had that died unexpectedly a couple of years ago? Or am I forgetting about some other suspicious death that occurred? Maybe Stacey?

In the motion to quash that mentions 1 homicide, 2 attempted homicides, etc., it also mentions that the investigations involve 4 states. I can see that three would be Arizona, Idaho, and Hawaii, but what is the fourth? Utah? Texas?

 

[MadTing]

Part 3 of the MG interview is up

Melanie Gibb discusses mysterious deaths, an earthquake, confronting Chad and Lori and her message for them now

 

[Diddian]

That’s a ton of initials!

The good news is that at least none of these particular initials have changed since the beginning of these investigations! (Oops. I spoke too soon. AxC did actually become AxP shortly before he died.)

 

[BUF]

Part 3 is up...

East Idaho News

 

[tresir2012]

Here

Here’s question for @gitana1 and our other lawyers or anyone else who knows. How come the organization that shan’t be named gets to post something saying “cease and desist, don’t talk about us” and apparently it’s all they need to make people shut up. Even if what’s being said is documented fact. Yet victims like the Rzuceks can barely do a thing to stop terrible (and unsubstantiated) speculation about their murdered daughter because that would tromp on the trolls’ freedom of speech? I’m not being bitter. I genuinely want to know.

Thanks in advance!

I have to believe that LE must have all the copies of the podcasts that are N/A to us. Especially the Sept 2019 ones. MOO.

 

[Chelly]

Why wouldn't agreeing to let Kay take JJ back be acceptable? Please explain why taking on all the emotional, spiritual, and legal baggage of murder is preferable to giving in to a grandmother who is begging to take JJ. Giving JJ back to Kay was a very easy way out. No one has ever proffered a theory why she did not take that route.

Perhaps Lori feared what JJ knew and could reveal to Kay?

 

[Onsdag]

They were sealed while both Tammy and Charles were still alive.

Just a quick reply before I drop it and move on.

There were two different questions being asked in this thread. One question was in regards if it would have been possible for Lori and Chad to have a legitimate Church sanctioned sealing in the temple after their civil wedding on the beach in Hawaii - this is what my response that you were quoting was in regards. The answer is almost certainly not.

The second question, which you are now referring, was in regards to if Chad and Lori were sealed together while Tammy was still alive. The answer to that is no. At least not a legitimate Church sanctioned sealing as we do not practice polygamy and they would have been excommunicated for even trying. However, it does appear that Chad and Lori believe they were sealed in a temple, which is where the confusion is coming from. They most likely went through a sealing session on behalf of dead ancestors and then pretended that it was their own sealing they were doing. It wouldn't be legitimate, of course, but they could pretend it was the real deal in order to rationalize and justify their evil behaviors.

All MOO.

 

[FindingJoLee]

Who is the "us" that Melanie is referring to at the start of this part 3?
"They wouldn't answer us."

 

[MTW2011]

Part 3 bringing some real sadness into the light now. What many of us have been so afraid of. Nate asks Melanie where she thinks the children are.

She says she doesn’t think they’re on this planet anymore. She adds that Tylee is a very strong and capable young woman who would make a phone call, let someone know she is OK and alive, and that has never happened.

Even though I’ve been thinking this for awhile now there’s something very somber about hearing it from MG now.