Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #38

[wenwe4]

I admit to a fair amount of schadenfreude at watching these two dirt bags incarcerated and going down in flames. Go to ****, *******.

I do too and I don't even cuss . . . schadenf**de!
Ha (I lied - I do cuss!)

 

[PinkPrincessPoop]

Were the kids buried in the yard while Tammy was still alive and living in the house?

 

[gumchew]

I think someone like CD could be easily swept up in the charm, sexuality, and hero worship/admiration of LV. It happens pretty routinely to men in their 50s, to fall for a sexpot and discard their hard working wives of decades. I know personally men who have done this (without killing anyone).

I'm afraid the problem might have been JJ, he was very high maintenance.

As long as JJ was around, LV and CD couldn't be romantic newlyweds, or go off together to live in Hawaii. If they truly believed Doomsday would be in July, they didn't have much time to be together.

There have been cases of women who have killed or abandoned their small children in order to go off with a man, who they know isn't interested in their children. Like Susan Smith, but others I know of.

Possibly TR was eliminated because she cared so much for JJ and would know if something happened to him. Also, TR may have come into conflict her mother (and uncle), because of the many bizarre things happpening/deaths in the family. And she may have inherited money from her father, that LV wanted to use.

IMO, LV planned with her brother to eliminate her husband, CV, and get the million dollars. Then she could get someone else to look after JJ, possibly his grandmother.

But LV did not receive the life insurance, the grandmother did. LW, the grandmother, has said it herself: out of pure spite, LV didn't want to send JJ to LW, because then LW would have everything, and LV would have nothing, she would lose the financial support for JJ.

Again, possible with the obsession about Doomsday, LV thought this was all short-term anyway, that whether people were alive or dead now, or whether she might be arrested and go to jail, didn't matter because the end of the world was coming.

Yes! You're hitting on the most interesting psychological aspects of this! If we subtract the murders, the rest of this is like virtually every other mid-life-crisis-affair. An insecure, schlubby nerd meets a "hot" yet equally insecure counterpart, they decide that the other person is their soul-mate that fixes all their problems (magically), and they decide to leave their unappreciated spouses behind. The power of pitocin! But in the vast majority of the rest of those stories, financial and emotional ruin are the only consequences. Not murder and mayhem. So what's the extra ingredient here, that led to the murder and mayhem? I think I have read (somebody please correct me if I'm wrong) that her friends have suggested that Lori was showing signs of a major behavioral changes even before she met Chad. Or did her change in behavior line up with when she met Chad?

I think Lori had a psychotic break not long before she met Chad. Or maybe when she met him, maybe even as a result(?) of meeting him. I think Chad's a fantasist and a liar who tells stories to make himself feel bigger and more important. Writing is an obvious outlet for that, but imagine the power you feel when you can find people who will see you and treat you as their prophet in real life!? In Lori, he found someone suggestible who would hang on his every word, have sex with him, and help weaponize his fantasies into action. She was his True Believer. She not only believed everything he said, but was willing to act on it, either directly, or through her brother Alex as a proxy, to violent ends if needed.

Everything we've heard from Melanie Gibb suggests that Lori really believed all the bulls**t that CD was spinning. Her irritatingly smug demeanor in court and elsewhere has always telegraphed "you're all full of crap, because you don't know what I know". Not so much a criminal who thinks they've gotten away with something we can never figure out, but more like "I am not guilty of anything, I have done the right thing, and you can't comprehend that because you are not a Translated Being(tm)".

On the other hand, CD is not so smug. Neither his photos nor his on-camera demeanor suggest that to me. He has always known he was making all this sh*t up, and that was all OK, right up until the point that Lori/Alex killed Charles. He had purpose-built a narrative to drive her away from her husband and her children... the whole 'zombie' and 'light/dark' scale, his card game rating system including the sexual prowess of Translated Beings (all totally self-serving). The only thing that's not clear to me is whether he knowingly incited her to kill Charles or not. Everything beyond that--to Chad-- was damage control. Tylee, JJ, and Tammy (and maybe Alex) were all big risks and knew too much. They all knew something and they all stood in the way.They had to go. I wonder if Lori even knew that he had killed the kids? Did she believe he really teleported them to the other side of the veil?

What do you all think? Was Lori the mastermind, or did she fall under Chad's spell and things went out of control?

 

[FindingJoLee]

'He always did his job well': 'Cult' dad Chad Daybell is praised for being good GRAVEDIGGER | Daily Mail Online

• Chad previously worked as a gravedigger at a cemetery in Springville, Utah and wrote about the experience in a book titled 'One Foot In The Grave'
• That book and several of his other titles penned by Chad are for sale on Amazon; the retail giant is reportedly in the process of removing them from the site

What in the world?? Soliciting and/or giving praise for his grave digging skills right now???

 

[freyaflies]

Hi everybody...so i'm reading the timelines AGAIN and still can't come to terms with a GUESS at a motive. Further, the dead bodies started collecting around LV long before CD's involvement from what I can tell. So, was the final push of dead bodies because CD was charmed by LV (he's not someone I would think she would be attracted to) and it all started out of an affair? Or was it truly the end of days that got them all embroiled together?

IMO the catalyst was JJ and the motive was simply money and revenge.
I think that Lori became extremely resentful of caring for JJ and the resentment changed her feelings for Tylee too. And she was very unhappy about having to leave HI. When Tylee started receiving benefits in AZ in 2016, Lori felt she was entitled to the $, but as Tylee got older maybe she began demanding the money. Lori was furious about not getting Charles’ insurance $, and because Tylee was JJ’s protector she was aligned against Lori (in Lori’s eyes). IMO Lori wanted to make Kay suffer so badly she would stop at nothing.
Chad believed he was superior even to his own family, and he seemed to have an increasing need for others to think him special (a prophet) but he had no money to influence people. When they met, they saw in each other a way to get what they wanted and they glossed it over with religion which allowed them to still feel superior while doing terrible things.
If this seems too obvious, consider that they are both also incredibly stupid. For example, I’m convinced that they thought they were outside US jurisdiction when they went to Hawaii.

 

[Hippononymous]

Slightly tongue in cheek, but if someone believed the apocalypse was going to happen in July, and it would be preceded by plagues and economic collapse, the last few months might be seen as confirmation that everything was proceeding as per schedule.

In some circles, this isn't exactly a fringe belief. I know some who definitely believe this way--that the "end of the world" (AKA the second coming of Christ) is imminent.

 

[longtimereader]

Still wondering about Tammy's autopsy! I wonder if/ when it will be released... The fact that it's in the hands of the AG makes me think something was found... And here's an interesting link between Tammy and Alex's death:

From this article:
Friends of Tammy Daybell express concern over her death | East Idaho News

During the visit, Fowler and another friend told KSL that Murray also shared concerns about the state in which they found Tammy Daybell’s body. Murray reportedly shared that Tammy Daybell appeared to have pink foam coming out of her mouth.

Fowler and multiple sources told KSL that Chad Daybell refused to have an autopsy performed on his wife. They expressed concerns about Tammy Daybell’s funeral, which they felt was rushed.

I looked up smothering and foam was not a common symptom. But yes it seems that poisoning can cause it. Also carbon monoxide poisoning. Whatever causes pulmonary edema. I do not have science background...just googling

 

[Hrh_LadyJ]

Ha! I live alone, well except the fur babies so I only have to impress myself! That is so funny you said that though... I just put a Marie Callender’s pot pie in the oven I can’t taste, so maybe I should actually try cooking for myself lol!

Welcome Indeed!!

I hope you feel better soon! I was very sick in Jan. before anyone was really testing for Covid... The Dr put me on antibiotic's and diagnosed it as acute Bronchitis.... But it was really awful, and my mom ended up catching it as well.... I do wonder if it was actually Covid (I still haven't been tested) But both mom and I are in the "high risk" group and we made it through, so maybe it wasn't (honestly not sure I would be alive if it was). It took a loooooong time for the cough and crappy feeling to go away, maybe 5 wks on the cough!

Anyway, hope you start feeling better very soon, and have enough food/ TP! Fur babies are the BEST medicine!! This is something I never would have imagined happening in my lifetime... Okay getting back on topic now!

 

[osu]

Ok trying desperately to catch up, so don’t know if this has been posted!

But... VERY good interview on Nancy Grace podcast with Nate Eaton and Ellen Killoran. I’m on my phone and having trouble linking, maybe someone can link it!!

Nate says he has learned that the Daybell kids had some bonfires in the yard.

Nate says he has also learned that LE basically had several things come together that led them DIRECTLY to the spots where kids were buried.


Killoran says she interviewed Tyson Draper who says he has spoken to Emma and she wanted to support her father but has recently had a change of heart!

This is worth a listen- no Nancy at all, for those that don’t like to listen to her lol MOO

Here’s a link to that Crime Stories podcast with Nate Eaton and Ellen Killoran.

Listen to the Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Episode - Bonus: ‘Cult Mom’ Lori Vallow’s missing children remains found? Neighbors say bonfires at husbands property on iHeartRadio | iHeartRadio

 

[des2021]

Just wanted to suggest to new people like me that I’ve been going through the timelines on the first page of each thread and the amount of information here is incredible!
I’m finding it helpful to follow along with what others who have been exploring this case here longer are discussing and to learn more than I ever could imagine about the ins and outs of the case, the history of all the people involved, and the investigations. I really can’t think of any other place to get all of this info, it’s awesome! It does take a notebook and a pencil as suggested to me early on lol!

ETA: so much info that really digs deep and far back. Things like this:
2007 – CV’s 2nd ex-wife begins to have concerns about Lori’s mental health. “She just seemed off. There were a lot of strange goings-on at their home to the point that a judge ordered cameras to be put in their home to protect the children,” Cheryl says (East Idaho News).
Just a ton of information leading up to this terrible end result. I know I sound like an advertisement lol! But I’m excited to be digging into all of this information.

I don’t think we ever found out exactly what these strange things were either @Michael0808. If you find something please let us know. Hope you are feeling better today! MOO

 

[scapa]

@Reluctant anthropologist - I think CD believed in his own visions about as much as Jim Jones with the koolaid
I do think that the whole Heaven's Gate leader (etal) did believe they would fly off on a comet to another dimension where they could live in paradise
MOO

IDK. I mean with Jones you have the emergent paranoia and jealousy, the logistics of managing a faraway colony once the funding streams are cut off, increasing newspaper editorials and defector accusations of serious abuse, government inspections interpreted as threats, his own increasing physical difficulties and drug dependence, etc. The wheels were coming off, and he was a delusional control freak without a shred of empathy. But I think he was a believer, at least early on, and the apocalyptic turn has a noticeable curve. And he was a well-known preacher in a recognizable religious stream with some hefty backers -- again, initially at least. There's a track record, a corpus of thinking, a history of beliefs, however dangerous and strange they became.

CD seems like a petty criminal, by comparison -- and I'm not really talking about the crimes. I mean, who is he, really? Small-town sexton, fringe publisher, one of how many doomsday visionaries without even his own visions to sustain him, borrowing (possibly) someone else's NDE to validate himself? Maybe he believed his own stuff, or maybe he viewed himself as a disruptor, chafing under the life he found himself in, and what began as a seduction became something he couldn't stop without losing the object of his lust/obsession.

If he thinks that his visioning/preaching/propheseying/whatevs is what won him his "beauty queen," then maybe he can't get off that train without losing her. They reinforce and feed each other, and within a year there are 3,4,5 bodies and it's over.

IDK. I think he was a believer, of a kind, but mostly I think he believed in his own potential worth/ greatness and finally saw a way to make others believe it too.

 

[wenwe4]

I cannot countenance that these two divine entities could engage in tawdry portalography. No, no, 1000x no.



Okay, yeah, probably. But always in the interests of managing the end times for their flock.

BBM
I am dying! Vote for Post of the Day (if we still have that here)

 

[Gigi3]

Here’s a link to that Crime Stories podcast with Nate Eaton and Ellen Killoran.

Listen to the Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Episode - Bonus: ‘Cult Mom’ Lori Vallow’s missing children remains found? Neighbors say bonfires at husbands property on iHeartRadio | iHeartRadio

Thank you!! I knew I could count on some of you super sleuths to get it done!

 

[divineappt]

Researched “pink frothy sputum (thick mucus) ” which led me to Pulmonary Edema and that led me to AC’s autopsy report where Cause of Death states “Bilateral Pulmonary Thromboemboli” which is also known as pulmonary embolism.

A comparison of Pulmonary Edema and Embolism found:

>Both can result in discharging pink frothy sputum/mucus

>Pulmonary embolism (AC) mimics the features of acute pulmonary edema (TD?) but has been rarely reported

Poisons and drugs can cause pulmonary embolism—specifically ethylene glycol and propylene glycol toxicity—according to the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry.

I hope the investigators read read this thread.

*******************************************************************
Source: American Journal of Emergency Medicine
Snipped from paid article: “We report a patient who presented with typical features of cardiogenic pulmonary edema; however, massive pulmonary embolism was ultimately diagnosed. Pulmonary embolism masquerading as acute pulmonary edema has been rarely reported...
...Patients in whom pulmonary embolism mimics the features of pulmonary edema represent a subset raising strong diagnostic challenges.”

Source: Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry
Snipped from article:

• Ethylene glycol poisoning through ingestion can cause noncardiogenic pulmonary edema and ARDS.
• Ethylene glycol poisoning can cause dysrhythmias and heart failure

To add to this:

Ethylene glycol is the ingredient that makes antifreeze tasty. Though colorless and odorless, the syrupy alcohol derivative—which is excellent at lowering the freezing points of vital engine fluids—has a sweet taste that jibes well with soda, juice, and other sugary beverages. As many concerned pet owners and parents are well aware, dogs, cats, and kids are prone to lap up puddles of antifreeze left on garage floors. Every year, 90,000 animals and 4,000 children ingest the toxic liquid; if not treated immediately, the consequences of the poisoning can include renal or cardiovascular failure, brain damage, and death.

Why is antifreeze so delicious?

 

[longtimereader]

Ugh, the dog was spared but not the children. Absolutely heartbreaking...

She tried to SELL it and got caught.

 

[PingTheRouter]

Ethylene glycol

pretty sure they also spray this stuff on the wings of planes to de-ice them in cold conditions

 

[scapa]

Many of us have frozen meals that we can rely on when a case is moving quickly. Makes us look like we’ve been busy all day.

Yes. I also need a frozen job in which all time-sensitive tasks are already finished, and a perhaps a frozen house that is already sorted for when the fam get home. Then I could really devote myself to here.

 

[longtimereader]

I agree with you totally regarding the cookies after the memorial service... Lori was certainly trying to influence Melanie saying "they were married before", "Tammy would be happy beyond the veil", "She met with Kay to drop off JJ". I know that Melanie hints at truth, but geeez, between the two of them who knows the truth.
These meeting with family so soon after life changing events (Lori in CA after Tammy's death), and Melani (Ian's kids loved her right after Natalie and Ian divorced).

These are crazy people.

But you bring up that interesting situation where Chad was spooked after the welfare check. WHY do you thing that he was hiding their relationship at that point? This one has been a mystery for me. Was it just that this was the first acknowledgment that these kids were missing? But still there just seems to have been more.

Good point on remembering MP saying the kids loved her and not to screw it up. Same kind of lie.

 

[longtimereader]

I agree with you totally regarding the cookies after the memorial service... Lori was certainly trying to influence Melanie saying "they were married before", "Tammy would be happy beyond the veil", "She met with Kay to drop off JJ". I know that Melanie hints at truth, but geeez, between the two of them who knows the truth.
These meeting with family so soon after life changing events (Lori in CA after Tammy's death), and Melani (Ian's kids loved her right after Natalie and Ian divorced).

These are crazy people.

But you bring up that interesting situation where Chad was spooked after the welfare check. WHY do you thing that he was hiding their relationship at that point? This one has been a mystery for me. Was it just that this was the first acknowledgment that these kids were missing? But still there just seems to have been more.

Good point on remembering MP saying the kids loved her and not to screw it up. Same kind of lie.

 

[BreeCherie]

It really hurts my heart seeing the Found Deceased on this thread now. I knew it was coming but it's still painful.