Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #39

[Michael0808]

We know Alex was 51 years old and as far as I can tell never married before marrying ZP for a couple of weeks before his departure into the better world ( or his case maybe not a better world). That to me sounds kind of unusual for a Mormon man, no?

I’m not sure why or if he was never married. But I would never make assumptions about a person’s sexuality based on their age and/or marital status. And frankly I haven’t seen anything tangible leading to the conclusion that this is why they were married. I would rather look at more evidence based information when considering why they married.Jmo

 

[jjenny]

What we know is Lori believed herself on a mission to collect 144,000 and apparently they had to be couples? The best I could tell? Of course being in a fifties makes a woman past her reproductive age, so I am not really following the logic there.

 

[gumchew]

Lori's history appears to show a pattern of oppositional defiance. Even in her religious upbringing there were numerous "deviations from the norm" in her behaviors (ie: multiple weddings/divorces, parents never attended even one wedding, beauty pageants wearing 2 piece bikini, lying to the Bishop to keep her temple recommends (as was suggested).
In other areas of her life:
She was oppositional in all of her parenting plans with ex's ad openly defied court orders.
She left CV high & dry without credit card, car, airfare (etc) and stole all the money from bank accounts
She refused to tell LEO, family, friends, anyone where her kids were.
She made sure CV would not have any access to JJ, nor TR with her dad, nor CR with his bio father (as has been reported).
She moved the kids hither and yon without any care for their mental health (not to mention all the deaths & losses). - despite Colby telling her to settle and create a new foundation.

As all the facts come out - I truly believe that Lori just was not the mom she portrayed to others. No "callings" from the church for her to be a Primary teacher/music director or Relief Society president? I just cannot envision her as the picture of a perfect Mormon mom of many kids who manages to raise multiple kids, provide for her family's needs, perform services for her church and show up with the perfect 'funeral potato casserole and green jello salad' kind of gal.

I am looking at patterns of behaviors here (some details may be wrong) but hopefully illustrates my point. IMO

A longtime friend and coworker of mine met and married a woman from a popular dating site, about 14 years ago when that was still a relatively new and novel concept. I went to the wedding, she was as sweet a person as you could imagine. Things were great for a couple years, they had a couple of kids, but then she started exhibiting all kinds of weird behavior, including a particular kind of spiteful, vengeful behavior where she would be irrationally suspicious of him all the time, and then literally sabotage him to get back at him over disagreements. Putting fingernail clippings in his contact lens case, as the most minor example. It turned out that she had Borderline Personality Disorder, had been hiding it, and had gone off of her meds. Everything I read about LVD reminds me of my friend's (now) ex-wife. Rigid, irrational belief system, narcissism, suspicion, vengeful and disproportionate reactions.

The problem with BPD, as my friend often said, is that it's literally a Jekyll/Hyde thing. You never know which one you're going to get, and you can't be sure which one you're even talking to, until the crazy s**t starts happening.

Anyway, LVD sounds a whole lot like this to me. JMO. Looking forward to see what comes out of any court-ordered psych evals.

 

[pizzaman12]

How could CD diagnose the children as light/dark if he never met them? Or does he access his Light/Dark Superpower "behind/behind the veil" or while in his portal?

Ummm...well...he's an idiot and is talking about dark/light...I'd say the same if he had met them. This stuff is absurd

 

[Michael0808]

What we know is Lori believed herself on a mission to collect 144,000 and apparently they had to be couples? The best I could tell? Of course being in a fifties makes a woman past her reproductive age, so I am not really following the logic there.

I’m not following this well. Lori is 46 I believe. And I really have no clue about this because I haven’t been able to spend a lot of time yet on the religious aspect, were the the 144,000 required to be fertile?

 

[PingTheRouter]

we actually tested a sample of that stuff during our lab course for my science degree, we had a really whack teacher, he thought we needed to know what dangerous substances looked like

this and some purified i think nightshade almost gave me a heart attack because i am so paranoid and ocd that i'd somehow ingest it or get it in my eyes or through my skin lol

i was so happy when that lab ended and i could go have like 12 showers

its so so dangerous and no known cure

 

[jjenny]

I’m not following this well. Lori is 46 I believe. And I really have no clue about this because I haven’t been able to spend a lot of time yet on the religious aspect, we’re the 144,000 required to be fertile?

You'd think they should be fertile if they are to repopulate the world. Otherwise I don't know what use are they going to be?

 

[des2021]

Been a busy and somber day. We spent the morning/afternoon hanging ribbon. East Idaho News
They are all over town now. It feels good to do something but my heart aches for JJ and Tylees families. I hope they feel welcomed and comforted by all of us who care.

What a lovely gesture. Im sure JJ and Tylee’s friends and family will appreciate it. I appreciate you doing it. I hope you also hung a few for us here on WS who can’t be there! Those poor sweet children!

One thing I have thought a lot about the last few days is about the idea of "home" for these two angels.

I know that JJ will always have a "home" with the Vallow family. He will probably "go home" to Louisiana and the Vallow family will visit and love and care for him somewhere near Kay & Larry's home, where their family has lived and been stable for a long time.

But, Tylee...she lived for a few years in Austin, then a few years in Phoenix, then a few in Hawaii, then back in Phoenix....and then for such a very short time, in Rexburg. I don't know where she will "go home" when the time comes, but it's been really heartwarming to see the way Rexburg has adopted Tylee (and JJ) into their hearts. In a horrible, heartbreaking time, it's been really sweet to see people being so good to give them both a home during this time. <3

It’s heartbreaking! I hope what ever they decide, they decide to keep them together. IMO, Tylee was more of a mother to JJ than Lori could ever be. It seems like JJ and Tylee adored each other. Neither of them got unconditional love from their mother, but they got it from each other. MOO

 

[Knox]

I really want to know this. Was it an assertion of authority by Chad? Was it Lori's idea, but "prescribed" by Chad? Was there a financial incentive we're not seeing? Or was it just pairing off the cult members?

How long was ZP part of the group before she married him? If that's true about pairing off, how does dee-dee-dee IP fit in? He wasn't part of that group?
Speaking of cult, group, whatever you want to call them. Do we know how many there are?

 

[Anonymom]

A longtime friend and coworker of mine met and married a woman from a popular dating site, about 14 years ago when that was still a relatively new and novel concept. I went to the wedding, she was as sweet a person as you could imagine. Things were great for a couple years, they had a couple of kids, but then she started exhibiting all kinds of weird behavior, including a particular kind of spiteful, vengeful behavior where she would be irrationally suspicious of him all the time, and then literally sabotage him to get back at him over disagreements. Putting fingernail clippings in his contact lens case, as the most minor example. It turned out that she had Borderline Personality Disorder, had been hiding it, and had gone off of her meds. Everything I read about LVD reminds me of my friend's (now) ex-wife. Rigid, irrational belief system, narcissism, suspicion, vengeful and disproportionate reactions.

The problem with BPD, as my friend often said, is that it's literally a Jekyll/Hyde thing. You never know which one you're going to get, and you can't be sure which one you're even talking to, until the crazy s**t starts happening.

Anyway, LVD sounds a whole lot like this to me. JMO. Looking forward to see what comes out of any court-ordered psych evals.

Borderline Personality Disorder is high on my list of what is wrong with Lori. But, even with BPD, she still made plenty of evil choices. I believe her psychology is complex and no matter how many diagnosis can be used to explain her motivations, she still knew right from wrong.

 

[Knox]

here is the app name. Bloomz
Arizona school details new information about Lori Vallow and son JJ

Bloomz - The Parent Communication App for Schools & Teachers
Connect
Join your child’s teacher and other classroom parents in a closed environment. Your child information’s security is paramount to us, so their name and image are protected and teachers control parents’ access and verification.


Communicate
With classroom instant messaging, photo updates, announcements and alerts, Bloomz is a powerful virtual communication tool.

my question would be — was she communicating with someone secretly there?

I wondered if she thought Kay may have been communicating with the school or other parents, and was checking to see if JJ's name was being mentioned.

 

[KonaHonu]

I've spent the day catching up on thread #38 and trying to piece together my own daily timeline from September 1 to December 1. Most of my information is from Gardiner's Most Excellent Timeline posted on page 1 of every thread. My goal is to try to narrow down when each of the deaths likely occurred and see if there are any hints in other observed behaviors. I have a few questions for the group:

1. How do we know MG visited Rexburg the weekend of September 20-23? In her interview she was not specific and only said it was over a weekend. The previous weekend seems more likely to me because CD, LV, and MG did a podcast that weekend.

2. Speaking of podcasts, can we infer anything from the dates? It seems to me like these are something that are recorded in advance then editted before being posted. I'm inclined to think that they actually were in the same room when recording them. I know it is easy technically to be all separate. But Lori does not seem to have the tech skills to do it that way.

3. Do we know how long TD was visiting her parents? She arrived on 10/4 but it has been said there was a big LDS conference that is televised that she would not have missed. She was not due back at work until 10/14 but we know she was back in Rexburg for the paintball incident on 10/9. I'm trying to narrow this down because I believe the burials took place either whie she was gone or after her death.

4. What actually happens during the spud harvest? Is it literally just time off from school to harvest potatoes? Or is it more like a harvest festival with events, parades, and so forth?

5. What evidence do we have that Lori was in California with Chad over Thanksgiving? I believe circumstantially she was but I'm wondering if we have any evidence. If Chad's kids knew about her by then, which is suggested by the comments about having them over for cookies and them knowing about the wedding then why wouldn't she take part in the family vacation?

I'm working on a theory that Tylee thought she was going to BYU-I for the fall semester. Move in day was 9/13 and classes started 9/16. So I think that would have put pressure on Lori to get rid of her just before that. BYU-I admissions is based on standardized tests, church endorsements, and seminary graduation. Do we know anything about whether Tylee graduated seminary or took any standardized tests?

 

[jjenny]

After listening to interview with Melanie G, it sounds that Chad filled Lori's head with all kind of crazy ideas (and like some people pointed out, Lori might have not been all that stable to begin with). But apparently the idea that Charles became a zombie came from Chad (at least according to Melanie G.).

 

[jjenny]

I don't think Tylee believed she was going to BYU or anything of the sort. Sounds like she wasn't even old enough to attend yet. There is a question on whether she actually did have a GED that I didn't see answered. Tylee didn't want to move to Idaho according to her friend, and only moved because of JJ. None of this goes with her believing she would go to college there.

 

[gumchew]

I wonder if Chad was afraid of Lori. Afraid he was going to be next. In the pictures of their wedding, she looks to be way more into him than he into her. Just my opinion after looking at the pictures.

Is there more than one photo? I've only seen the one where he's pretending to play the ukelele and she's hula dancing.

I think there's merit to what you're saying. I remain convinced that she's crazy/homicidal and he's just ... I don't know. Morally bankrupt, delusional, and in way over his head. But that doesn't mean he's not scared s**tless of her. In a sense she has nothing to lose; she's already lost her mind and dispensed with her kids and her husband. There is no line she won't cross or hasn't crossed. If Chad messed with her "reality", she could have ruined him completely, before the cops got wise to everything, either by exposing all of them, or by having Alex kill him.

I don't think she has that leverage now, so it will be really interesting to watch what position their defense teams take come July 1st!

 

[dot...dot...dot]

Interesting. IMO I agree the marriage seems to have been a contract of some sort not based on a love match.
What leads you to your other conclusions? I’m still going through everything but I haven’t come across anything that speaks to the rest of your post.

I’m basing my supposition about AxC’s sexual orientation on a post written by Tylee’s aunt, Annie Cushing [on another site] She says that LVD is extremely homophobic and makes reference to a fight between LVD & AxC, witnessed by a neighbor, where LDV shouted, “You’ve disgraced the entire family!” [or something to that effect] Annie surmises that AxC had done something that wasn’t keeping his gay self in the closet where it belonged and was what had Lori screaming in the street.

Next, he married for the 1st time at age 52 IIRC. It’s unusual for a Mormon man to stay single that long.

Finally, in one of the videos that surfaced of AxC’s standup, he says he wishes he was straight in a joke. None if this is definitive proof of course and JMO.

 

[justpeachy22]

I think she was possibly trying to make it look like JJ was using his iPad to see his old friends and teachers, because he didn't have a phone she could send fake texts from and couldn't use the iPad to contact the people he really loved, Kay, Larry and Colby.

also, sometimes mothering rituals don't turn off overnight, sometimes even with mothers whose children die, by design, or otherwise. LVD gave no indication she missed her kids by the flaunting pics in HI, but I'm not completely counting out some little type of emotion/ritual from her there.

 

[gumchew]

After listening to interview with Melanie G, it sounds that Chad filled Lori's head with all kind of crazy ideas (and like some people pointed out, Lori might have not been all that stable to begin with). But apparently the idea that Charles became a zombie came from Chad (at least according to Melanie G.).

Exactly. He seized on her weakness. He may be the misfit prince of nerds, but he saw something he could exploit. It's interesting the way Melanie Gibb describes Lori "trying these ideas on" at first. Lori herself sounded like she wasn't sure and was convincing herself. Then she says something another time about how her ability to receive revelation is not that strong and so she's depending on getting it from others (Chad).

It's those things that really give me that "manipulation" vibe. He knew what he was doing in planting these ideas in her head. He was literally orchestrating her perception of reality. Weaponizing her.

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

I've spent the day catching up on thread #38 and trying to piece together my own daily timeline from September 1 to December 1. Most of my information is from Gardiner's Most Excellent Timeline posted on page 1 of every thread. My goal is to try to narrow down when each of the deaths likely occurred and see if there are any hints in other observed behaviors. I have a few questions for the group:

1. How do we know MG visited Rexburg the weekend of September 20-23? In her interview she was not specific and only said it was over a weekend. The previous weekend seems more likely to me because CD, LV, and MG did a podcast that weekend.

2. Speaking of podcasts, can we infer anything from the dates? It seems to me like these are something that are recorded in advance then editted before being posted. I'm inclined to think that they actually were in the same room when recording them. I know it is easy technically to be all separate. But Lori does not seem to have the tech skills to do it that way.

3. Do we know how long TD was visiting her parents? She arrived on 10/4 but it has been said there was a big LDS conference that is televised that she would not have missed. She was not due back at work until 10/14 but we know she was back in Rexburg for the paintball incident on 10/9. I'm trying to narrow this down because I believe the burials took place either whie she was gone or after her death.

4. What actually happens during the spud harvest? Is it literally just time off from school to harvest potatoes? Or is it more like a harvest festival with events, parades, and so forth?

5. What evidence do we have that Lori was in California with Chad over Thanksgiving? I believe circumstantially she was but I'm wondering if we have any evidence. If Chad's kids knew about her by then, which is suggested by the comments about having them over for cookies and them knowing about the wedding then why wouldn't she take part in the family vacation?

I'm working on a theory that Tylee thought she was going to BYU-I for the fall semester. Move in day was 9/13 and classes started 9/16. So I think that would have put pressure on Lori to get rid of her just before that. BYU-I admissions is based on standardized tests, church endorsements, and seminary graduation. Do we know anything about whether Tylee graduated seminary or took any standardized tests?

For question 1, it comes from both the interview with Nate Eaton and from the babysitter caring for JJ.
Part 2: Melanie Gibb describes zombies, JJ's disappearance and the 'fatal attraction' between Chad and Lori Daybell | East Idaho News
"Gibb visited Sept. 19 and remembers walking around the Brigham Young University-Idaho"

 

[Michael0808]

You'd think they should be fertile if they are to repopulate the world. Otherwise I don't know what use are they going to be?

Makes perfect sense. I haven’t spent a lot of time on the 144k aspect yet because it’s just such rhetoric but it is important. Although really in this day and age, women in their 40’s are fertile so perhaps that’s why she was trying to recruit her peers into her crazy scheme. Who knows. I don’t believe that she or Chad believed the end of days were coming so that influences my thoughts. Jmo