Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #12

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  • #41
I don't think the police have, or should have, access to financial information absent probable cause. Maybe there is someone who is LE or an attorney here who can correct me if I am wrong but my personal estate planning, beneficiary information, and so forth is private. I don't think cops have any right to that information without a court order. And once they have access they can be sued personally for disclosure to the public. So I doubt any cop would be dumb enough to disclose anything.

Cops generally can't be sued for doing their job. But once they disclose information against the rules of their job the gloves are off.
As @Gardener1850 pointed out, the police could have gotten that information voluntarily from Charles' family, which would be in family's best interest.
When asked about the insurance policy in a media interview, Kay Vallow declined to comment, supposedly because of the ongoing investigation.
 
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  • #42
I don't think the police have, or should have, access to financial information absent probable cause. Maybe there is someone who is LE or an attorney here who can correct me if I am wrong but my personal estate planning, beneficiary information, and so forth is private. I don't think cops have any right to that information without a court order. And once they have access they can be sued personally for disclosure to the public. So I doubt any cop would be dumb enough to disclose anything.

Cops generally can't be sued for doing their job. But once they disclose information against the rules of their job the gloves are off.

Generally, true. But now the FBI is involved and the rules change.
 
  • #43
So, has anyone done an (alleged) body count yet?
1. Lori's dad
2. Husband #1 is 'missing'
3. Husband #2 'suicide'?
4. Husband #3 murdered
5. AC 'suicide'?
6. JJ (I am presuming the kids are dead)
7. Tylee
8. Tammy

8.5. BB was ALMOST murdered.

Who will be next? This is just insane. This and Dulos... and if they do a Dulos I'll be livid.
 
  • #44
  • #45
So, has anyone done an (alleged) body count yet?
1. Lori's dad
2. Husband #1 is 'missing'
3. Husband #2 'suicide'?
4. Husband #3 murdered
5. AC 'suicide'?
6. JJ (I am presuming the kids are dead)
7. Tylee
8. Tammy

8.5. BB was ALMOST murdered.

Who will be next? This is just insane. This and Dulos... and if they do a Dulos I'll be livid.
Lori's dad is alive AFAIK. The person with the same name who died recently wasn't him (wrong age). The first two husbands were also alive when Lori parted with them. It's the deaths of #3 (Joseph Ryan) and #4 (Charles Vallow) that are being questioned.
 
  • #46
So, has anyone done an (alleged) body count yet?
1. Lori's dad
2. Husband #1 is 'missing'
3. Husband #2 'suicide'?
4. Husband #3 murdered
5. AC 'suicide'?
6. JJ (I am presuming the kids are dead)
7. Tylee
8. Tammy

8.5. BB was ALMOST murdered.

Who will be next? This is just insane. This and Dulos... and if they do a Dulos I'll be livid.

Gosh. I didnt realize there was even more that are now dead. I was just beginning to grasp what happened to BB and how he is involved in this mess. Here is my deductions about it.

JMO
Im still trying to digest all the parties involved in this madness. I think Im starting to understand most, but BB was the one I had no real idea about till yesterday.

From the timeline on Page 1, we see this about BB....

2008 – Lori’s niece, Melani, daughter of late Stacey Cox Cope, marries BB (Daily Mail).

June 2019 – Lori’s niece, Melani, tells BB, her husband of 11 years, she wants a divorce. BB says he believes it was due to Melani's new religious beliefs after following her aunt and Chad into what he calls a “cult.” (Post Register).

2 Oct 2019 – BB, husband of Lori’s niece Melani, is shot at in the driveway of his Gilbert, AZ home; A bullet narrowly misses him and shatters the driver’s side window of BB’s car. The shooter is driving a vehicle matching the description of Tylee’s Jeep. A police report is filed. The Jeep was caught on CCTV and was later confirmed to be registered to the late Charles Vallow. (Family interview on GH; Fox News & Arizona Republic).

16 Oct 2019 (Approx.) - About 2 Weeks after BB was shot at, Melani texts BB saying that she has decided to move to Boise, ID. (Arizona Republic)


So do I have this right that 3 of the players had their spouses either end up being dead or a murder attempt. 2 out of 3 have dead Ex's now, and the 3rd one almost lost their spouse (BB) to a murder attempt. Its just crazy and from taking a step back to look at it, it sure looks like there was a plan for everyone to get rid of their spouses (and kids too in Lori's case) and join the "doomsday cult".

*Lori's ex-husband is dead and shortly afterwards, she hooks up with Chad and heads to Hawaii.

*Chad's ex-wife is dead and shortly afterwards, he hooks up with Lori and heads to Hawaii

*Melani's ex-husband (BB) had a murder attempt on his life but luckily the shooter missed.

*Lori's kids are missing and she did not produce them when a court ordered them to do so

Wondering if there is other people tied to this "cult" that had their spouse come up missing around the same time. There may be something to the theory that this could be bigger than what we are seeing right now.

Sheer craziness and from looking at it, I think it is pretty obvious what the plan was for these people. I hope LE gets enough evidence to prosecute any of them that were involved in any of the deaths or disappearance of the kids.
 
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  • #47
They didn't say if she was the beneficiary or not. They also didn't say how much the policy was for. I find it hard to believe that CV's family didn't contact the Chandler PD to tell them about the life insurance policy:

...
CBS 5 Investigates Exclusive: Charles Vallow had 'substantial' life insurance policy

o_O
I also find it hard to believe that Charles' family didn't tell Chandler PD about life insurance. Charles' sister did claim Charles had life insurance but changed a beneficiary, so Lori wouldn't get the money (but Lori didn't find out about that before Charles was killed). So who got the money, if that's true?
By the way this is the first msm article I have seen that claims Alex moved back into the Valley in early Oct. and was suspected in the shooting. Yet apparently on Oct 2nd he was visiting a locker in Idaho. So that makes me even more confused.
 
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  • #48
I noted one error- they said chad and Lori got married in Rexburg.

But, I can’t believe Chandler PD did not know there was a big life insurance policy? Seriously?
I don't think we really figured out where Chad and Lori got married?
Regarding Chandler PD, it's like they are playing dumb and dumber, IMO.
 
  • #49
RE: Storage Unit
Oh crap. My optimism, what little there was of it, just took a nosedive.

RE: Unaccompanied minor & flying
Pretty sure this is irrelevant, anyway, but with Tylee being over 15, she's old enough to supervise JJ during a flight, and when half-sibling relatives of mine that are 15 and 8 flew cross-country last summer, it was very simple and they did not need a bunch of paperwork. Not that I believe the kids flew anywhere.

RE: Info from Nate's interview with the radio station
He states that Tylee was VERY ACTIVE on social media. I think he's probably talked to enough people to get a good sense of that. Given her age, she's much more likely to be on Snapchat and other of the newer, more private services. (And to have multiple accounts that we haven't found.)
Also. The bit about JJ calling Kay multiple times a day, even if just for a few seconds, got to me. :(

RE: Chad & books & publishing
I'm sorry, @BigAl16, but I believe you're seriously underestimating Chad's income - or at least what it was prior to these last few weeks/months. I haven't been watching the Amazon rankings perfectly, or completely, but the titles I have been watching have been consistently trending lower and lower in the rankings. And Amazon rankings can change quickly.

As of about a week ago, just on his Kindle titles that are available for purchase, I believe he was making, as a very low end guess, around $1000 a month on purchased Kindle books. It's not even possible to really make a stab at how much he was making with page reads on the series he has in Kindle Unlimited (KU).

For some example numbers. When I checked about a week ago, the majority of his series fiction titles were hovering in the 100,000-150,000 rank, with the lowest running no worse than 250,000. At the time, I did some figuring with book sales calculator, and it appeared he was averaging somewhere between 15-20 sales per month per book. There were just 10 books I was keeping track of. The price range for all but one of those was either $7.99 or $9.99. Either of those prices qualify for the 70% royalty rate.

If you figure 10 titles x 15 books/month x $7.99 x 70% = $838.95

And that's just sales of ebooks. No KU. No print books. Nobody else's titles. No audiobooks. And nothing at all published wide (not on Amazon), if there is any.

Audiobooks, along with podcasts, have made a HUGE jump in sales/listens this last couple of years. One of Daybell's sons is listed as the narrator of his audiobooks, so it's likely that the audiobooks were created at very little or no cost. Could potentially be making a decent chunk on them - some authors were reporting that up to a third of their income was coming from Audible in by the end of 2019.

Given the style of the covers, I doubt they paid anyone to design them. Probably done in-house. There seems to be no current advertising campaigns, so no money outlay for that.

There's not really any way whatsoever for me to make a decent stab at income from print or KU or wide. (If there is any. I haven't checked, and that would be way more time-consuming that I have patience for, when it's about someone else's books.)

Ditto on tracking or guessing at potential income from the rest of the titles published. Despite Spring Creek Book Company's website being down, and Archive.org & Google not having decent caches, I did find partial title lists, on OpenLibrary and Book Depository.

In summary... even today, some of his titles are jumping back up into the 100k rank range when I look, even though others are crashing to say, 800-900k. It's entirely possible he and Spring Creek were making a pretty decent chunk of change up until recently. (I noticed that the author people have been calling his "most famous" has a statement on her website calling him a "former publisher", with the publishing relationship ending in early 2019.)

Was it 30k a month? No idea, but there *are* quite a few authors out there making six figures with just ebook sales. Granted, a great many of those are in the romance and fantasy genres, but it's entirely possible he was doing quite well, since the niches he write in are a lot less crowded.

As always, this is MOO, and you're all free to disagree, because of course, without income or tax statements, we're all just guessing anyway. I just happen to believe that Chad might well have had access to more money than assumed, especially if the Daybell family tended toward saving rather than spending.
 
  • #50
Gosh. I didnt realize there was even more that are now dead. I was just beginning to grasp what happened to BB and how he is involved in this mess. Here is my deductions about it.

JMO
Im still trying to digest all the parties involved in this madness. I think Im starting to understand most, but BB was the one I had no real idea about till yesterday.

From the timeline on Page 1, we see this about BB....

2008 – Lori’s niece, Melani, daughter of late Stacey Cox Cope, marries BB (Daily Mail).

June 2019 – Lori’s niece, Melani, tells BB, her husband of 11 years, she wants a divorce. BB says he believes it was due to Melani's new religious beliefs after following her aunt and Chad into what he calls a “cult.” (Post Register).

2 Oct 2019 – BB, husband of Lori’s niece Melani, is shot at in the driveway of his Gilbert, AZ home; A bullet narrowly misses him and shatters the driver’s side window of BB’s car. The shooter is driving a vehicle matching the description of Tylee’s Jeep. A police report is filed. The Jeep was caught on CCTV and was later confirmed to be registered to the late Charles Vallow. (Family interview on GH; Fox News & Arizona Republic).

16 Oct 2019 (Approx.) - About 2 Weeks after BB was shot at, Melani texts BB saying that she has decided to move to Boise, ID. (Arizona Republic)


So do I have this right that 3 of the players had their spouses either end up being dead or a murder attempt. 2 out of 3 have dead Ex's now, and the 3rd one almost lost their spouse (BB) to a murder attempt. Its just crazy and from taking a step back to look at it, it sure looks like there was a plan for everyone to get rid of their spouses (and kids too in Lori's case) and join the "doomsday cult".

*Lori's ex-husband is dead and shortly afterwards, she hooks up with Chad and heads to Hawaii.

*Chad's ex-wife is dead and shortly afterwards, he hooks up with Lori and heads to Hawaii

*Melani's ex-husband (BB) had a murder attempt on his life but luckily the shooter missed.

*Lori's kids are missing and she did not produce them when a court ordered them to do so

Wondering if there is other people tied to this "cult" that had their spouse come up missing around the same time. There may be something to the theory that this could be bigger than what we are seeing right now.

Sheer craziness and from looking at it, I think it is pretty obvious what the plan was for these people. I hope LE gets enough evidence to prosecute any of them that were involved in any of the deaths or disappearance of the kids.

Sorry about replying to my own post but wanted to highlight the main point I was trying to make. In summary and IMO, the main point was.....

Its just crazy and from taking a step back to look at it, it sure looks like there was a plan for everyone to get rid of their spouses (and kids too in Lori's case) and join the "doomsday cult".
 
  • #51
Wondering if there is other people tied to this "cult" that had their spouse come up missing around the same time. There may be something to the theory that this could be bigger than what we are seeing right now.
Yet Chad and Lori as potential cult leaders aren't sitting in a secret bunker remotely directing their flock before the impending end of the world, but are instead enjoying life as newlyweds in Hawaii, trying to blend in as typical LDS church goers.
 
  • #52
Have you ever heard of a midlife crisis?

Perhaps it is the residual effect of a near death experience. That, and living in Springdale, UT, being a groundskeeper at a cemetery for 15 years. Then, moving to Rexburg, ID, with his LDS librarian wife.

Borderline Personality Disorder crazy blonde chick...probably sounded like a lot of fun. And every crazy idea she had, probably was more and more believable. It probably didn't even sound so bad, after all, Tammy was going to die someday, anyway.

Now, Chad is on the cover of every newspaper, nightly news, and this has probably even increased his book sales. Everyone knows who he is now...
 
  • #53
Have you ever heard of a midlife crisis?
Most men with a midlife crisis get a car they can't afford, or something like that. This is kind of out there for a midlife crisis.
 
  • #54
Yet Chad and Lori as potential cult leaders aren't sitting in a secret bunker remotely directing their flock before the impending end of the world, but are instead enjoying life as newlyweds in Hawaii, trying to blend in as typical LDS church goers.

Yeah, the whole Hawaii location is interesting. Seeing Lori with that huge bag of money in cash as Nate tried to interview her was an eye opener to me. I have to wonder if they were fixing to fly the coop to some other place but maybe the heat of the case caught up with them before they could fly out to their next destination.

Or maybe Hawaii was going to be their secret destination and maybe planned to stay there.
Im pretty sure they did not expect all the heat from reporters and LE. I have a feeling they thought they were all home free until this case blew up on them.
 
  • #55
Yet Chad and Lori as potential cult leaders aren't sitting in a secret bunker remotely directing their flock before the impending end of the world, but are instead enjoying life as newlyweds in Hawaii, trying to blend in as typical LDS church goers.
Yea, what exactly happened to their "end of the world is coming" idea?
 
  • #56
Yea, what exactly happened to their "end of the world is coming" idea?
In the end the motive will boil down to Lori's love of Hawaii.
 
  • #57
Sorry about replying to my own post but wanted to highlight the main point I was trying to make. In summary and IMO, the main point was.....

Its just crazy and from taking a step back to look at it, it sure looks like there was a plan for everyone to get rid of their spouses (and kids too in Lori's case) and join the "doomsday cult".

From an objective viewpoint, it’s been hard to make sense of it.
 
  • #58
Yeah, the whole Hawaii location is interesting. Seeing Lori with that huge bag of money in cash as Nate tried to interview her was an eye opener to me. I have to wonder if they were fixing to fly the coop to some other place but maybe the heat of the case caught up with them before they could fly out to their next destination.

Or maybe Hawaii was going to be their secret destination and maybe planned to stay there.
Im pretty sure they did not expect all the heat from reporters and LE. I have a feeling they thought they were all home free until this case blew up on them.

I agree, I think Hawaii is where they planned/still plan to stay. It doesn’t align with the newer Rexburg buildings being built to withstand a major earthquake/back-up emergency communications center for the (new) prophets to lead the 144,000 (?). With newer visions, perhaps this “end of days” scenario has changed.
 
  • #59
  • #60
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