IDI theorists, how do you explain Patsy's staying on the couch?

[Lebowski]

I don’t think this is an accurate description of the scene. According to published accounts and statements to police, neither JR nor Fleet White screamed that JBR had been found.
JR screamed, “Oh my God! “Oh my God” when he found the body in the wine cellar. AIUI, PR and the others upstairs heard yelling but not the words. Then Fleet rushed upstairs and to the study, began dialing a number, stopped, and rushed back to the basement, shouting for someone to call for an ambulance as he went. At that point, no one in the study knew what had happened in the bssement. JR brought JBR’s body up and spoke with Linda Arndt. PR may or may not have heard his voice and/or his words.

IF IDI: Had JBR been found alive, JR and Fleet would have been shouting, ‘We found her! She’s okay! Patsy, come quick!’ Instead, after the brief commotion there was eerie quiet. And because if it I think PR either would have realized or have known instinctively that JBR had been found deceased and would have waited for JR or Linda Arndt to tell her. I think she could have hung back out of a combination of dread, emotional exhaustion, possibly the effects of a sedative, and confusion about whether she was allowed to leave the study. IOW, I don’t think her hanging back necessarily indicates guilt or guilty knowledge.

If RDI: I think PR already knew JBR was dead and held back for the same reasons.

However, if IDI, she dreaded facing the reality of her daughter’s death and seeing her lifeless body already altered by death. If RDI, she dreaded At that point, no one in the study knew what had happened same things, plus the full onrush of guilt and the awful necessity to feign initial shock and surprise in front of friends and a police officer.

i realized it might not have been clear from what fleet said, and good point about possible confusion over whether she was allowed to go look -- detective arndt had told her to stay in the den.

i'm getting that annoying feeling again that a clue has turned out not to be as conclusive as it looked at first. happens a lot with this case.

 

[Meara]

I suppose you have a point here

Thanks.

You were so nice not to mention the gonzo formatting! Hahahaha! Sorry; that last para should read:

However, if IDI, she dreaded facing the reality of her daughter’s death and seeing her lifeless body already altered by death. If RDI, she dreaded the same things, plus the full onrush of guilt and the awful necessity to feign initial shock and surprise in front of friends and a police officer.

I had to use my phone, and it's much trickier to edit on a cell phone. And - AND! - the bugger lies! I proofed that thing at least three times before posting. Some typos got through; okay, that happens; but the formatting was fine. And so was I! So unfair. I mean I ask you now, what's the point of being sober?

 

[gumshoe1]

i realized it might not have been clear from what fleet said, and good point about possible confusion over whether she was allowed to go look -- detective arndt had told her to stay in the den.

i'm getting that annoying feeling again that a clue has turned out not to be as conclusive as it looked at first. happens a lot with this case.

Ditto.

I still strongly suspect RDI though

 

[Lebowski]

Ditto.

I still strongly suspect RDI though

i'm sorry if i played a role in you starting this thread, with stuff i said in another thread.

i'm still somewhere around 90% sure RDI, with 70-80% PR at least writing the ransom note. briefly spiked almost to 100 due to my misunderstandings of the context of PR's apparently delayed reaction to the finding of the body.

 

[Meara]

do we know how quickly the people in the den/study understood that JBR had been found? do we have statements from the fernies et al. to the effect that they got up *because* they understood that she'd been found? ... or that it was more like "what's fleet going crazy about? and what's john doing over there?" and then they got up to see? or do we not have those statements?

Good questions to which I do not know the answer. Let me review the sources on this and see what turns up.

If anyone else knows, please jump in and tell us!

 

[Meara]

i realized it might not have been clear from what fleet said, and good point about possible confusion over whether she was allowed to go look -- detective arndt had told her to stay in the den.

i'm getting that annoying feeling again that a clue has turned out not to be as conclusive as it looked at first. happens a lot with this case.

It does. There are many clues that lead nowhere and clues that turn out to be just equivocations, and conclusions so perfect that it's mind boggling when they don't work. I think of Santa Bill -- his relationship with JB, his eccentricities, the business with his wife and the play she wrote, his familiarity with the house, the promise to JBR of a surprise visit, the Santa suit found in the basement shower. He's THE perfect IDI suspect, except......he could't have done it. Cue howling and gnashing of teeth. You're good at spotting the significant details, though, and testing them until you can sort them into the Keep and Discard bins, and that does lead to greater clarity eventually.

 

[Lebowski]

thank you