IDI: Whats your problem?

[madeleine]

The police department diligently compared that profile to a very large number of people associated with the victim, with her family, and with the investigation, and has not identified the source, innocent or otherwise, of this DNA.


Colorado Bureau of Investigation to assist us in this effort. We received those results on June 27th of this year and are, as a result, confidant that this DNA did not come from innocent sources at the autopsy. As mentioned above, extensive DNA testing had previously excluded people connected to the family and to the investigation as possible innocent sources.


http://www.bouldercounty.org/newsroom/templates/bocoda.aspx?articleid=1256&zoneid=13


They wouldn't have been so stupid NOT to test everybody who could have been in contact with JB that day.
If there was a male helping JB in the bathroom that day who didn't come forward then we have a problem.(why didn't he come forward and when did he have access to her)First of all,it couldn't have been a family friend,those were all tested.She was at home and at their friends house those days before the murder so I don't see where an unknown male would have had to help her with the bathroom issue.

 

[madeleine]

During the same press conference ML also said:
So when you say “was it the DNA, the lynchpin? It was based on his story. The DNA could be an artifact. It isn’t necessarily the killer’s. In all…there’s a probability that it’s the killer’s, but it could be something else. But the way he told the story, it had to be his and it’s not.

(Artifact. A result that resembles, and therefore may be mistaken for, a real phenomenon but which reflects experimental error or is due to some extraneous factor.)

You think it was skin cells,I think it was saliva or blood,I don't mind.
And talking about experimental errors,those can happen also with regard to the ransom note and the fibers,do you agree?

 

[Roy23]

Madeleine is making mince meat out of this thread. She is hitting fast balls, curveballs, and knuckleballs. Never thought I would see the day.


RDI Maddy
:croc:

 

[madeleine]

Madeleine is making mince meat out of this thread. She is hitting fast balls, curveballs, and knuckleballs. Never thought I would see the day.


RDI Maddy
:croc:

All I did was going through ST's book and deposition,I didn't read them once,I read everything 10 times.Dunno how to explain better but the things that made me an RDI at first are exactly the things that changed my views.Why?Because the 3,5,10th time I PAID ATTENTION.Every piece of "evidence" that points to RDI is undermined by ST himself in his depo.All you have to do is READ carefully,of course if you WANT to.I wanted to check every possible scenario and found out I have more questions/suspicions re FW,Santa,CW and even Karr than I have re the Ramsey's.People under the umbrella of suspicion cleared by handwriting,ST admitting that the doctors agreed Jb was ALIVE when sexually assaulted(so that was NOT a part of any staging),more unsourced fibers than so-called PR fibers,they sated as FACT that the tape over JB's mouth was put there post mortem now I find out it's hearsay and based on common sense and observation.ST launching his theory and INVESTIGATING THIS MURDER(which is more serious than having an opinion,I don't mind him having a personal opinion,but he was a lead detective who shouldn't have been biased) based on LHP's gossip and being friends with ANOTHER person under the umbrella of suspicion.Just read Beckner's Depo and see how they "investigated" Chris Wolf.The card from Santa found in the trash can,nobody bothered to check that even if I find it bizarre that TWO people who were under the umbrella had a connection.(Santa and Wolf).
Nope they treated all the suspects who were willing to trash the Ramsey's as KEY WITNESSES.ST didn't even interview LHP but her words are the basis of his bombshell theory.

 

[madeleine]

Wanna know why I am so pi@@ed?Because it's very possible that Jb killer's name (maybe the DNA owner,maybe the mastermind,maybe he's both)is in those files and was never investigated or was recklessly cleared by some incompetent biased detectives,that's why.

 

[Roy23]

Wanna know why I am so pi@@ed?Because it's very possible that Jb killer's name (maybe the DNA owner,maybe the mastermind,maybe he's both)is in those files and was never investigated or was recklessly cleared by some incompetent biased detectives,that's why.

I really wonder what the investigation would have been like had LE found the body instead of having the world know just how incompetent they were. Not one excuse can be made for LE not finding that body. They wanted to get back to their Holiday celebrations.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I really wonder what the investigation would have been like had LE found the body instead of having the world know just how incompetent they were. Not one excuse can be made for LE not finding that body. They wanted to get back to their Holiday celebrations.

Another way to look at it:

If IDI then JR, PR, and LA are each of the mindset that it was a kidnapping in progress.

The reason they truly believed it was a kidnapping for money is because they had the money and figured they were a target for this type of thing.
The emphasis in their minds would be on the phone and the bank and who among the people they knew would do this. Calling and inviting their friends over does a couple things. It rules out right away who isn't available, and it sets up a network to find out if anybody knows anything.

When the phone never rang, attention only then turned to other possibilities (although the RN author seemed to be intending to call 8-10AM Dec 27 not Dec 26). LA might not have expected JR to show up with JBR's body, but instead with a report of other things out of place that only JR would recognize.

Anyway I think it was astute of LA to consider a house search and it probably avoided an even worse outcome.

 

[DeeDee249]

I presume you mean the Christmas party, right?

Which one? I mean the White's party THAT day, though it could have been that it also occurred at the Rs own party. According to Nedra, there were some people who would refuse to help her because they felt (and rightly so) that she was old enough to wipe herself.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Which one? I mean the White's party THAT day, though it could have been that it also occurred at the Rs own party. According to Nedra, there were some people who would refuse to help her because they felt (and rightly so) that she was old enough to wipe herself.

I was looking at this really from more of a DNA perspective, so we can skip the overdone RDI propaganda.

The RDI scenario for the innocent deposit of DNA inside the underwear and on the waistband at a party requires that she be wearing both the underwear and the longjohns at the party, right? If not then please elaborate as to the DNA path.

 

[BBB167893]

Madeleine is making mince meat out of this thread. She is hitting fast balls, curveballs, and knuckleballs. Never thought I would see the day.


RDI Maddy
:croc:

Anything you guys can pitch, I can hit!

 

[BBB167893]

All I did was going through ST's book and deposition,I didn't read them once,I read everything 10 times.Dunno how to explain better but the things that made me an RDI at first are exactly the things that changed my views.Why?Because the 3,5,10th time I PAID ATTENTION.

Same thing happened to me, just the opposite way.

People under the umbrella of suspicion cleared by handwriting,

I can see some problems with that.

ST admitting that the doctors agreed Jb was ALIVE when sexually assaulted(so that was NOT a part of any staging),

How'd you come to that conclusion? It's staging if the perp didn't know she was still alive. That's not just me saying it, either.

they stated as FACT that the tape over JB's mouth was put there post mortem now I find out it's hearsay and based on common sense and observation.

It passes the reasonable man test, far as I go.

ST launching his theory and INVESTIGATING THIS MURDER(which is more serious than having an opinion,I don't mind him having a personal opinion,but he was a lead detective who shouldn't have been biased) based on LHP's gossip and being friends with ANOTHER person under the umbrella of suspicion.

I wouldn't persue that line of thought too far, Madeleine. If you want to talk about bias in this investigation, I've got a long list.

 

[BBB167893]

Wanna know why I am so pi@@ed?

You're damn right! I'm taking this one personally. Just goes to show I was right all along: you can't trust anybody!

 

[DeeDee249]

I was looking at this really from more of a DNA perspective, so we can skip the overdone RDI propaganda.

The RDI scenario for the innocent deposit of DNA inside the underwear and on the waistband at a party requires that she be wearing both the underwear and the longjohns at the party, right? If not then please elaborate as to the DNA path.

No. MY path for this DNA did not involve her wearing the longjohns or oversize panties to the party. In her interviews when asked about the oversize panties on her daughter, Patsy suggests that JB could have dressed herself in those panties because she claimed she had put the set in JB's drawer. The rest of the set wasn't found.
MY path for this DNA is that skin cells picked up by one of JB's parents at the party were deposited there when they dressed JB in those things. Patsy admitted putting the longjohns on JB, and JR carried her up from the basement holding her around the waist(band). Then there is JR's wool shirt fibers in the panties, so to me, he put them on her.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Anything you guys can pitch, I can hit!

OK.

Genetic material from an unknown male got on the inside crotch of JBR's underwear. More genetic material from the same male got on two places on opposite sides of the longjohn waistband.

How could this happen?

Please note that we are missing the owner of this genetic material, and we are also missing the KNOWLEDGE of who killed JBR, how, and why.

 

[DeeDee249]

OK.

Genetic material from an unknown male got on the inside crotch of JBR's underwear. More genetic material from the same male got on two places on opposite sides of the longjohn waistband.

How could this happen?

Genetic material was picked up at the White's party that day by one or both parents and transferred to JB's clothes. Patsy admitted putting the longjohns on her, and JR carried her up holding her around the waist (outside waistband)of the longjohns. The longjohns had to be pulled down to put the oversize panties on her, then pulled back up. (inside waistband) His fibers were in the crotch of the panties right along with the male DNA, so to me, that's how it got there.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Genetic material was picked up at the White's party that day by one or both parents and transferred to JB's clothes. Patsy admitted putting the longjohns on her, and JR carried her up holding her around the waist of the longjohns. His fibers were in the crotch of the panties right along with the male DNA, so to me, that's how it got there.

Finally we're getting somewhere.

I like the 'both parents picked up the DNA' thats great. Genetic material 'picked up' at the Whites party seems vague, though. What do you mean by 'picked up'. Obviously not off the floor.

 

[DeeDee249]

Finally we're getting somewhere.

I like the 'both parents picked up the DNA' thats great. Genetic material 'picked up' at the Whites party seems vague, though. What do you mean by 'picked up'. Obviously not off the floor.

Obviously not. Could have been door knobs, toilet handle, wineglasses, shaking hands, etc.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Obviously not. Could have been door knobs, toilet handle, wineglasses, shaking hands, etc.

To summarize, the genetic material path is from a surface at the Whites, to JR and/or PR's hands, and then to a blood stain on the inside crotch area of JBR's underwear plus two (2) locations on the waistband of her longjohns.

Its a possibility. How else could this happen? What are the other paths?

 

[BBB167893]

OK.

Genetic material from an unknown male got on the inside crotch of JBR's underwear. More genetic material from the same male got on two places on opposite sides of the longjohn waistband.

How could this happen?

Looks like DD got to it before me. But I'll get back to you.

 

[WHITEFANG]

Another way to look at it:

If IDI then JR, PR, and LA are each of the mindset that it was a kidnapping in progress.

The reason they truly believed it was a kidnapping for money is because they had the money and figured they were a target for this type of thing.
The emphasis in their minds would be on the phone and the bank and who among the people they knew would do this. Calling and inviting their friends over does a couple things. It rules out right away who isn't available, and it sets up a network to find out if anybody knows anything.

When the phone never rang, attention only then turned to other possibilities (although the RN author seemed to be intending to call 8-10AM Dec 27 not Dec 26). LA might not have expected JR to show up with JBR's body, but instead with a report of other things out of place that only JR would recognize.

Anyway I think it was astute of LA to consider a house search and it probably avoided an even worse outcome.

the cops needed to/were obligated to/should have/had to inspect every square inch of the house, inside and outside, for any possible clues. While waiting for the phone call, they were negligent by not doing everything humanly possible to get a jump on the perp. Did they tap the phone?

Inviting friends over was also a good move for emotional support. Imagine the fear ripping their souls to shreds. Imagine you went downstairs one morning and found that note with your name and your child's name.