IDI: Whats your problem?

[BOESP]

I don't know the complete truth, only that I'm closer to it than you. All I need to know is your belief in RDI.

Truths that RDI can't seem to handle:

• ML found more DNA matching existing DNA.
• Deadly force was used on JBR.
• The GJ returned no bill.

1. To my knowledge, Mary Lacy is not able to connect that DNA to the crime or the offender.

2. I thought "deadly force" was something we all agreed on.

3. You have never answered my question about how you know what the instructions were as given to the Grand Jury nor how Hunter handled the results as to whether or not to indict. My understanding was the Grand Jury was charged to find additional evidence, not submit a true bill or indictment. Big difference there.

 

[WHITEFANG]

I should have figured THAT was your source. Leaving aside how outdated that information might have been at the time, it doesn't establish that they were from that night at all.



That's right, mate. Here's the statement PR made that I keep referencing, from October 2002:

“When I - after John discovering the body, and she was brought to the living room, when I laid eyes on her, I knelt down and hugged her. But I was, had my whole body on her body. My sweater fibers, or whatever I had on that morning, are going to transfer to her clothing, OK?”

Ah, but there's a BIG problem with that. This is what JR said two years earlier in Death of Innocence:

Instantly, I rip the tape off her mouth, begging her to talk to me. I pull the blanket off her. I pick her up...run to the stairs...to the living room and lay JonBenet on the floor in front of the Christmas tree...Patsy is coming in the room...She must not see JonBenet like this. I get a blanket to cover Jonbenet. I lay the blanket over her.

JR establishes that JB was already covered before PR even came into the room. A FOXNews account (which I'll find--don't worry!) bears that out. Now, PR's story would explain how her fibers got on THAT blanket. It does not explain how they got into the cord knots, which she didn't touch, or the basement items, since she claimed she hadn't been in the basement. According to FOXNews, she didn't even lie on top of JB's top half.

Veteran Boston area prosecutor Wendy Murphy had this to say:

"For Patsy's fibers to transfer would require flat-out magic."

And the fibers that were already on her body from the contact she had with Patsy on Christmas day, that were in her bed, on the covers, in the air, on the floor, on the gloves of the killer from any number of items he touched, were wonderful sources for 4 microscopic fibers.

 

[WHITEFANG]

Personally, I explain it that by the time the cover-up got underway, she had cried herself out.

I thought she was in a terrible hurry. It takes time to cry oneself out when you discover your child is dead, doesn't it?

 

[OneLove]

I thought she was in a terrible hurry. It takes time to cry oneself out when you discover your child is dead, doesn't it?

Who is to say? I guess it depends on how quickly one shifts into panic mode and then into CYA mode.

It might also depend on just how enraged you were during the event itself, and how long that rage and resentment lingered.

 

[OneLove]

I thought she was in a terrible hurry. It takes time to cry oneself out when you discover your child is dead, doesn't it?

Lets also change your wording a wee bit to "when you have caused the death of your child", and see how it impacts the aftermath.

 

[WHITEFANG]

Patsy could not develop the speed and the torque to crack bone and to detach a large chunk of it and jam it through into her brain. Especially on the first attempt. She did not pick up a large flashlight and smash it into her skull, either.

I would like to see those who claim she did one or the other to replicate it.

This "accidentally killed her" (but discovered only later she wasn't dead, not due to any fault of her own), and killed her by strangulation to cover up the dead, but not really-but, sure as hell looked like it at the time, does not stretch one's imagination a bit. In reality, it's fairly common; it happens every other Thursday night. And it is not just the mentally ill, who go undiagnosed three times a day and two to five times on Saturdays, Sundays are anybody's' guess, but are nevertheless mentally ill (because we know alot of times people closest to the insane ignore their symptoms, like the Narcissistic Personality Disorder symptoms, BPD and hormonal exhaustion symptoms, married to a bad seed symptomology, obvious to our expert panel of Monday morning quarterbacks, not licensed to drive tractors, who never said anybody had a mental illness in the first place, anyway-even though between just the two of us, they are definitely whackos-) if you don't mind! Yes sir ree Bob, no stretching here.

It is all perfectly logical. Now, don't be naive. We know that there is a separate but equally mentally ill group, (And we know about them. They have been diagnosed, big time) who contend that this wonderful, asymptomatic, loving, dedicated, upper-middle class mother, with no history or any hint of throwing her kids into sinks or toilets, smashing them and others in the head with deadly weapons, drug or alcohol abuse, church attending, hardworking (We prefer Highly Dysfunctional Perfectionist/Obsessive/Compulsive/Violent Outburst Addicted/Almost Always Pissed Off About Some Damn Thing/Vicariously Enchanted/DramaQueenDramatist/Make-up Indulged Mother, who, we emphasize was a loving mother and have loads of compassion for because truly she was without a doubt a loving and caring parent) woman was not responsible for killing her daughter. Imagine! Yes indeedie, there are such loonie tunes out there.

If you see this MIBNRBIRWKSW,BKIQ (for the uneducated, this is an acronym for the latest diagnosis to hit psychiatry in weeks, thanks to us! BTW!) Mentally Ill But Not Really But In Reality We Know She Was, But Keep It Quiet) demonstrating an emotional response to the death of her daughter, remember it is purely a front. On the other hand, don't forget, she was a sweetie-pie, and we loved her. If she seems cold and detached, that too is a show. If you inspect her answers when she's asked about toilet paper usage on M,W,F don't believe a word she says. She only purchased TP on the weekends, so there is no way they used it during the week. But, we feel her pain and really love and admire her. After all, she was married to that big beast and who knows how any of us would be able to tolerate him for more than six hours! Please! Did you hear the latest? He was diagnosed with MPB and the piece he wears in the pictures you see cost over 9 million dollars, I heard.

Yo, hold on a minute. Its my youngest brat screaming for more Captain Crunch. Oh damn. Later

 

[DeeDee249]

Patsy could not develop the speed and the torque to crack bone and to detach a large chunk of it and jam through into her brain. Especially on the first attempt. She did not pick up a large flashlight and smash it into her skull, either.

I would like to see how those who claim she did one or the other to replicate it.

You don't know that for a fact. And neither do we. The physics of that act has to be looked at with regard to the weight of whoever wielded the flashlight, the thickness of a child's skull, the arc of the swing. I doubt there was more than one impact. The coroner would have noted it.
But one of the forensic specialists (it was either Spitz or Wecht) did a test with an identical flashlight and found that it made a perfect replication of the rectangular depressed fracture.

 

[BBB167893]

And the fibers that were already on her body from the contact she had with Patsy on Christmas day, that were in her bed, on the covers, in the air, on the floor, on the gloves of the killer from any number of items he touched, were wonderful sources for 4 microscopic fibers.

For the duct tape, maybe. Not for all of the other things.

 

[BBB167893]

I thought she was in a terrible hurry. It takes time to cry oneself out when you discover your child is dead, doesn't it?

Who is to say? I guess it depends on how quickly one shifts into panic mode and then into CYA mode.

That's pretty much what I was going to say.

 

[OneLove]

Patsy could not develop the speed and the torque to crack bone and to detach a large chunk of it and jam through into her brain. Especially on the first attempt. She did not pick up a large flashlight and smash it into her skull, either.

I would like to see how those who claim she did one or the other to replicate it.

See, this is why you lose all your credibility. No one can know what Patsy could or could not do in regards to this.

The ONLY way you can credibly say she did not pick up a flashlight and smash it into her skull is if you were either there with Patsy during that time period or if you are the one who murdered JonBenet. I suspect you were neither. I suspect your manner of wording is either intentional arrogance or you're just bored and don't know how to get the other kids to play with you without being annoying to get their attention.

 

[BBB167893]

You don't know that for a fact. And neither do we. The physics of that act has to be looked at with regard to the weight of whoever wielded the flashlight, the thickness of a child's skull, the arc of the swing.

You also have to take into account leverage. Personally, I think JB was thrown into something.

But one of the forensic specialists (it was either Spitz or Wecht) did a test with an identical flashlight and found that it made a perfect replication of the rectangular depressed fracture.

That would be Spitz.

 

[OneLove]

You also have to take into account leverage. Personally, I think JB was thrown into something.

From what I have seen of impromptu and unplanned rages, I kinda think this is the most likely scenario also. And being smacked up against a porcelain sink, toilet, bathtub, or tile or granite countertop edge would be a big ouchie.

Then there IS Spitz's replication of the flashlight bash. I suppose either one is a fair possibility.

I vote for being thrown, tho. It fits with an intermittent explosive fit of anger.

 

[Tadpole12]

From what I have seen of impromptu and unplanned rages, I kinda think this is the most likely scenario also. And being smacked up against a porcelain sink, toilet, bathtub, or tile or granite countertop edge would be a big ouchie.

Then there IS Spitz's replication of the flashlight bash. I suppose either one is a fair possibility.

I vote for being thrown, tho. It fits with an intermittent explosive fit of anger.

Hi OneLove.

Just an observation ...... those large sized maglite flashlights are heavy, comparable to a set of lite weights. It's difficult to swing at all if you're not really strong. If you dropped it on your foot, it would break bones.

 

[joeskidbeck]

From what I have seen of impromptu and unplanned rages, I kinda think this is the most likely scenario also. And being smacked up against a porcelain sink, toilet, bathtub, or tile or granite countertop edge would be a big ouchie.

Then there IS Spitz's replication of the flashlight bash. I suppose either one is a fair possibility.

I vote for being thrown, tho. It fits with an intermittent explosive fit of anger.

I agree with being thrown also. Quitely possibly from the hallway or other room, into the bathroom.

 

[OneLove]

Hi OneLove.

Just an observation ...... those large sized maglite flashlights are heavy, comparable to a set of lite weights. It's difficult to swing at all if you're not really strong. If you dropped it on your foot, it would break bones.

Thanks, Tadpole!

Given what you know about the flashlight, how do you think it fits into the scenario, given that it seemed to have been used in some way?

 

[OneLove]

I agree with being thrown also. Quitely possibly from the hallway or other room, into the bathroom.

Do we know if they had granite countertops in the bathroom?

 

[BBB167893]

From what I have seen of impromptu and unplanned rages, I kinda think this is the most likely scenario also. And being smacked up against a porcelain sink, toilet, bathtub, or tile or granite countertop edge would be a big ouchie.

What about a bedpost or dresser?

Then there IS Spitz's replication of the flashlight bash. I suppose either one is a fair possibility.

It's a mystery, all right.

I vote for being thrown, tho. It fits with an intermittent explosive fit of anger.

Perhaps JB said or did something to trigger it. I'm just spitballing here.

 

[DeeDee249]

Thanks, Tadpole!

Given what you know about the flashlight, how do you think it fits into the scenario, given that it seemed to have been used in some way?

I feel certain the flashlight was the source for the "strange, moving lights" reported to LE by a neighbor. The fact that both the flashlight AND the batteries were wiped of prints tells me that at least it was part of the crime in that capacity.
I feel it was also used to bludgeon JB. That rectangular depressed fracture looks like it would fit the edge of the lamp section of the flashlight.
There were no granite countertops in the bathrooms that we have seen photos of. They look like tile. I have to say that I don't see that hole in her skull coming from being thrown or smashed against a tub, sink or counter edge. Possibly being thrown hard against a faucet would do it, though.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I feel certain the flashlight was the source for the "strange, moving lights" reported to LE by a neighbor. The fact that both the flashlight AND the batteries were wiped of prints tells me that at least it was part of the crime in that capacity.
I feel it was also used to bludgeon JB. That rectangular depressed fracture looks like it would fit the edge of the lamp section of the flashlight.
There were no granite countertops in the bathrooms that we have seen photos of. They look like tile. I have to say that I don't see that hole in her skull coming from being thrown or smashed against a tub, sink or counter edge. Possibly being thrown hard against a faucet would do it, though.

You're probably wrong.

The flashlight would certainly fragment or be damaged and it would be easily noticed.

 

[OneLove]

You're probably wrong.

The flashlight would certainly fragment or be damaged and it would be easily noticed.

Really? Certainly?

I had a similar flashlight that no longer worked. I bashed it repeatedly on a large stone, trying to break the stone. Never could break it, and the flashlight never did "fragment". It did show marks on it from the rough rock tho. I don't think JB's head would create similar scratch marks, tho.