If Misty were to lead LE to Haleigh....

[oceanblueeyes]

It may not be logical, I agree but we have no updates.

To me, it isn't any better to knock down prior known LE / Defense / MSM statements based on one opinion only.

We simply don't know. We can definitely express what we hope or our own personal opinion but I do think we cross the line when we use our own speculation to knock down prior known facts as moot and move on with the opinion as new fact.

There are two sides of any coin so I can just as credibly argue that Ron is back at the top of the LE suspect list and LE are using the 'plea deal' to send a message to Misty and cause her to break, etc, etc so they can indict Ron. Who knows?

Maybe I do believe that as an opinion but I am not going to use my opinion to dispell known facts, no matter how dated. That's my rumor. We go back to the facts until we get updates.

It takes us into dangerous ground IMO and we lose sight of what is credible versus self-created rumor ... we are creating urban myths and not everyone in this forum has followed the case from day one and read every thread and every post.

We are misleading members with our own self-created 'facts'. IMO

And since we don't know or have any updated information imo everyone is free to speculate for that is all any of us can really do. If you wish to believe the old news has not changed one iota and the investigation has stood completely still and everything remains exactly the same as it was over a year ago then so be it.

I am sorry that you are displeased with my own personal opinion and how I express it, however; I have every right to disregard tired old news as others have a right to cling to them and still use them.

If you want to argue that Ron is back on the top then so be it and if you want to think that the DA is trying to trick Ron then that is your entitled opinion. There certainly have been those myths and rumors ad nauseaum touted here with no facts to back it up. I guess that is different somehow though.

I never once said my opinions were facts. Would you point me to those things I expressed as FACTS?

What is bothersome is another poster telling another poster how they should post.

I never come here and dress someone down because their opinions differ from mine or critique how they post or tell them how they should post. I only own my own opinions and I stand by them and unless one of the moderators tells me I am not within TOS guidelines I will continue to post my opinions just like I have been doing here since January 2004.

IMO

 

[bessie]

It may not be logical, I agree but we have no updates.

To me, it isn't any better to knock down prior known LE / Defense / MSM statements based on one opinion only.

We simply don't know. We can definitely express what we hope or our own personal opinion but I do think we cross the line when we use our own speculation to knock down prior known facts as moot and move on with the opinion as new fact.

There are two sides of any coin so I can just as credibly argue that Ron is back at the top of the LE suspect list and LE are using the 'plea deal' to send a message to Misty and cause her to break, etc, etc so they can indict Ron. Who knows?

Maybe I do believe that as an opinion but I am not going to use my opinion to dispell known facts, no matter how dated. That's my rumor. We go back to the facts until we get updates.

It takes us into dangerous ground IMO and we lose sight of what is credible versus self-created rumor ... we are creating urban myths and not everyone in this forum has followed the case from day one and read every thread and every post.

We are misleading members with our own self-created 'facts'. IMO

:applause::applause::applause::blowkiss:

 

[cyberborg]

And since we don't know or have any updated information imo everyone is free to speculate for that is all any of us can really do. If you wish to believe the old news has not changed one iota and the investigation has stood completely still and everything remains exactly the same as it was over a year ago then so be it.

I am sorry that you are displeased with my own personal opinion and how I express it, however; I have every right to disregard tired old news as others have a right to cling to them and still use them.

If you want to argue that Ron is back on the top then so be it and if you want to think that the DA is trying to trick Ron then that is your entitled opinion. There certainly have been those myths and rumors ad nauseaum touted here with no facts to back it up. I guess that is different somehow though.

I never once said my opinions were facts. Would you point me to those things I expressed as FACTS?

What is bothersome is another poster telling another poster how they should post.

I never come here and dress someone down because their opinions differ from mine or critique how they post or tell them how they should post. I only own my own opinions and I stand by them and unless one of the moderators tells me I am not within TOS guidelines I will continue to post my opinions just like I have been doing here since January 2004.

IMO

The original thread discussion was whether it was valid for a post to cite Shoemaker's statement that Ron was still on the suspect list to support a point. Your post countered that it was not valid at all since it was old and had been since superseded by developments -- but it was superseded by speculative opinion, not new fact from MSM sources. IMO

Maybe I completely misunderstood the post in that it was not trying to reject the validity of the point made but simply express another opinion.

I think we should move on because there is invaluable discussion and I very much enjoy your posts and contribution.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree totally with you Cy. When we have been given facts, and no new facts come out to contradict the previous fact, It's ok to speculate, because we don't have anything else. But...we can't let that speculation replace facts that have been given. That just doesn't make sense , and seems irresponsible to me. :waitasec:

Does this also include LE saying they are satisfied with Ron's work alibi?

Does it also include that not one shred of evidence or information has been revealed that the DA is trying to "trick" Ron or that RC crawled through a hole at PDM that night and snuck off to kill Haleigh or dispose of her body?

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The original thread discussion was whether it was valid for a post to cite Shoemaker's statement that Ron was still on the suspect list to support a point. Your post countered that it was not valid at all since it was old and had been since superseded by developments -- but it was superseded by speculative opinion, not new fact from MSM sources. IMO

Maybe I completely misunderstood the post in that it was not trying to reject the validity of the point made but simply express another opinion.

I think we should move on because there is invaluable discussion and I very much enjoy your posts and contribution.

We are allowed to voice our opinions here, cyber. If I say something as a fact, I back it up with a link. If not it is, imo. There are a humongous amount of posts that are based only on opinions, gut feelings, hinky meters and speculations.

You are right.......lets move on.

IMO

 

[Nonni Brenda]

Does this also include LE saying they are satisfied with Ron's work alibi?

Does it also include that not one shred of evidence or information has been revealed that the DA is trying to "trick" Ron or that RC crawled through a hole at PDM that night and snuck off to kill Haleigh or dispose of her body?

IMO

Don't know about all that, OBE. Don't mean to start an argument. Just stating MOO.

 

[Nonni Brenda]

I think, MOO, that things can get a little o/t if we're not careful; and that doesn't do anything to help find out what happened to Haleigh. I believe that we all here agree that that is our ultimate goal. Sooo...

Back on track, if Misty should lead LE to Haleigh...I would be so happy!

 

[cyberborg]

I think, MOO, that things can get a little o/t if we're not careful; and that doesn't do anything to help find out what happened to Haleigh. I believe that we all here agree that that is our ultimate goal. Sooo...

Back on track, if Misty should lead LE to Haleigh...I would be so happy!

Agreed. I think we are all guilty of developing an opinion or theory too far that it is far removed from a basis in fact and known statements. At that point we really need to take it to the theories thread and present it as a complete theory and not derail current discussions with something that may be interesting but a little too far into left field.

Note to Cyberborg: Go directly to Theory thread, Do not Pass GO, Do not Collect $200.

 

[Nonni Brenda]

Agreed. I think we are all guilty of developing an opinion or theory too far that it is far removed from a basis in fact and known statements. At that point we really need to take it to the theories thread and present it as a complete theory and not derail current discussions with something that may be interesting but a little too far into left field.

Note to Cyberborg: Go directly to Theory thread, Do not Pass GO, Do not Collect $200.

Yep, me too. I remember a couple of times discussions have been derailed in the past on this case, and all H--- broke loose. Anyway, maybe we have some good news in that Misty's sentencing has been postponed. Maybe truth finally!:dance:

 

[bessie]

Excellent questions. Exactly, why would the Cummings urge Misty to take the test then immediately dismiss the results?

Better yet, why would the Cummings urge Misty to take the test at all if they were in on the secret? Things had been quiet, so why stir the pot? If they had something to hide, why risk exposure by having Misty's veracity put to the test, three tests?

It's been argued that Misty was told to follow a script, and that the Cummings insisted on being nearby during the tests to ensure she didn't stray from it. But, if they knew it was a script, they also knew the tests would reveal that she was lying. Why would they want that to happen? And why risk Misty becoming unnerved and blurting out something that she shouldn't? Just to make her look like a liar? Well, LE already thought she was a liar, and Ron had his work alibi. Why not let it stand at that? It makes no sense.

If they were in on it, they had to know the failed tests would cast doubt on the whole situation and everyone involved, including Ron, and draw the attention of LE. Which apparently it did. After a long period of silence from LE, the investigation suddenly became very active immediately following "the tests", the crucible, as it were.

That's why I've thought for quite some time that the Cummings did not know the truth about what happened to Haleigh. Misty lied and convinced them that what happened was in some way Ron's fault. There was no time for questions that night. A hasty decision was made to accept Misty's story at face value and rush to cover it up. To uphold Ron's alibi, a plan had to be in place before he returned home from work. But as time passed the Cummings' suspicions grew, and as soon as the DCF cleared Ron, they came out of hiding and took measures to get the truth from Misty.

That's one explanation. Are there others?

If Ron is responsible for Haleigh's death, and the Cummings, collectively, have known it all along, why would they risk exposure by submitting Misty to "tests" that would reveal her deception, and by reflection, cast suspicion on Ron and themselves?

 

[Dr. Know?]

It could come down to one little pill and who's it was, one slap too hard, and who did it. I uncluttered the other stuff. Makes it easier for me.

I use what I know, for later reference if needed. lol

 

[Baznme]

JMOO, but the documentation to that effect would be all the stuff LE has said since then where they aren't questioning what Ron knows, aren't pointing out there are discrepancies in Ron's story, and aren't asking for information on what Ron was really doing as opposed to what he said he was doing. Other than that, I don't know what could be linked to to prove a negative.

Lanie, I apologize. Sometimes I don't explain what I mean very well. I'm not looking for proof, all I am saying is a lot more has come out since the first time RC's attorney first stated he was at the bottom of the list. RC's behavior alone has changed any chance of my believing that and I believe a lot of other people feel that same way. To rely on what his attorney has said about his status means nothing to me. He's doing his job. When LE says they've ruled out no one, that means something to me. I hope that makes it clearer as to what my thought was on that.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

Well, all I can say is that I pray that Misty finally gave LE the truth what ever it may be. The fact that they moved the hearing to Jan 2011 for the charges in PC makes me wonder if she did finally crack and maybe those charges will eventually be dropped. Is there a "plea" in the works I wonder? :waitasec: I could only hope that is the case.
rayer: I just want Haleigh found, her killer to be punished, and the truth...nothing else matters. rayer:

 

[little lulu]

With Tommy still in SJC and Misty's hearing moved 2 months away, am more than hopeful something big is brewing and LE is getting it's ducks in perfect order for a charge of murder.
I'd like to be a fly on the wall down there, guess it's back to the scanner thread in hopes of a new search...this baby needs to come home, she deserves justice!
I hope since Misty starred into the face of reality (25 years) she has realized the truth is the only thing that will save her now.

 

[believe09]

....do you think she would receive more time in jail than she is facing now? Did she not tell LE the truth because she would face a murder charge? What would be the charge for concealing a murder at this point?

Discuss your thoughts here.

I think this is an interesting question and one I have been thinking about. I mean we have seen it a hundred times when the caregiver is present at the time of the child's death but is hit with child endangerment charges. Which equates to involuntary manslaughter in some states.

So, if most of the physical evidence is gone, she probably has far less to lose in bringing LE to Haleigh then she does heading to the poky for her drug charges.

 

[Baznme]

I think this is an interesting question and one I have been thinking about. I mean we have seen it a hundred times when the caregiver is present at the time of the child's death but is hit with child endangerment charges. Which equates to involuntary manslaughter in some states.

So, if most of the physical evidence is gone, she probably has far less to lose in bringing LE to Haleigh then she does heading to the poky for her drug charges.

Although I agree with you on that point, it still would need to bear out who the caregiver was. I still lean further toward the side of a caregiver that was already known to have been very free with his hands when it came to his own children.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

snipped from madjgnlaw:

I just want Haleigh found, her killer to be punished, and the truth...nothing else matters

I think we can all agree on that!

 

[Helplessly Hoping]

With Tommy still in SJC and Misty's hearing moved 2 months away, am more than hopeful something big is brewing and LE is getting it's ducks in perfect order for a charge of murder.
I'd like to be a fly on the wall down there, guess it's back to the scanner thread in hopes of a new search...this baby needs to come home, she deserves justice!
I hope since Misty starred into the face of reality (25 years) she has realized the truth is the only thing that will save her now.

Maybe there is finally some movement going on here...this delay is more than interesting...and Tommy still hanging out in SJC and not back in DOC....well maybe there is hope...

TALK MISTY TALK. You can't change what happened but you can bring about peace for a lot of people and peace of mind for yourself.....TALK MISTY TALK.

 

[krkrjx]

I think this is an interesting question and one I have been thinking about. I mean we have seen it a hundred times when the caregiver is present at the time of the child's death but is hit with child endangerment charges. Which equates to involuntary manslaughter in some states.

So, if most of the physical evidence is gone, she probably has far less to lose in bringing LE to Haleigh then she does heading to the poky for her drug charges.

I agree. Abusing a child, even if it leads to the child's death, can get the perp considerably less time than any of our players have received for selling pills.

http://www.gainesville.com/article/...n-hung-jury-man-avoids-retrial-with-plea-deal

 

[little lulu]

Although I agree with you on that point, it still would need to bear out who the caregiver was. I still lean further toward the side of a caregiver that was already known to have been very free with his hands when it came to his own children.

Just thinking out loud, IF... she has 5 ? more charges in PC and they were 25 years each like it was in SJC...that's 125 years...plus the 25, 150 years as opposed to (life?) Does that make any sense...life without parole with the drug charges dropped? Can they drop the drug charges for a confession?
guess I am grasping at straws and simply wishing and hoping at this point.