If you agree or disagree with the verdict, let us know why

[cluciano63]

My daughter was 22 at the time and I can attest that even she thought Casey's behavior was abhorrent...she was a mother who had a responsibility to take care of her child...not dump her on her parents because she A) didn't feel like working but only pretended she was, or b) because she felt like partying. I don't think just any 22 year old would consistently lie to go out and party...nor would they bring their child to sleep in bed with their boyfriend.
That's just the thing...Casey didn't want the responsibility of having to work and provide for her child, she didn't want to be the 22 year old who had to stay home...she wanted a life with no Caylee. JMO

But she easily could have had that life...all she had to do was leave Caylee with Cindy. While we know that Cindy and Casay were fighting like dogs and cats about this issue, it was not made clear to the jury, IMO. Cindy played the devoted grandma on the stand as well as covering for Casey every step of the way. She even talked about Casey's "friends" at the trial as though they really existed and she still believed it. The rancor between the two (Casey and her mother) was not made clear. I think the State stayed away from that issue for their own reasons, but it did not help their case, IMO.

 

[RR0004]

Really? Have you asked for any threads, quotes, directions, etc? It's such an easy nice thing.

You're sweet...thanks!

 

[beccalecca1]

becca, it's your prerogitive to believe GA was untruthful or not regarding his association with KH, but.....there's two sides to every story. She's an opportunist. She wanted her name out there. She got it. Whether or not GA had any, shall we say, colorful moments with her has absolutely nothing to do with his role as Caylee's grandfather, Cindy's husband and Casey and Lee's father. The DT used KH to do harm to GA's character. They succeeded and I am not surprised to hear the comments now coming from the jurors that they didn't trust GA's words.

The split up you refer to and the money he blew away was long before any of this happened. Ancient history, goes on every day in the real world and certainly wasn't any issues that were brought into the trial. As far as having to pay him alimony, that's a Florida thing. If you are married, everything is "community property" and if you split up.........you split two ways. If they agreed she keep the house, he gets the alimony equivalent to half the value of the house. Bam.....done......everybody walks away happy. It wouldn't have been because he wasn't making enough money. It would have been his entitlement as the other half of the marriage to collect the alimony in lieu of his half the value of the home.

As far as "all the covering up GA had to do", I'm not getting that part of your post. What covering up?

My understanding from SP's email to her sister, this was pretty recent.

And, the alimony was on top of having to give away half her house, she would have to support him for a period of time, monthly alimony payments. That is why she opted out of the divorce. She worked too hard for that family, and she didn't want to lose is all (which I understand completely).

 

[Sustained]

I didn't hear anyone stating they believed GA killed his granddaughter. Did you hear the jurors saying that?

Yes, I do believe the jury foreman mentioned that George could have killed Caylee.

 

[beccalecca1]

So, let me see if I understand you correctly. You keep referring to GA as ex-LE (I assume to reiterate that his experience as such should tell him how to handle things correctly, like calling 911 from the tow yard) so.....if GA disposed of the body, he went 15 houses away to Suburban Dr. and dropped her off 30 ft. from the curb wrapped in her Pooh blanket, 2 trashbags, duct tape on the body and a laundry bag all coming from his home? Now, that's pretty interesting. Then, he lets his only daughter sit in jail for three years and SHE says nothing?

The items that was found with Caylee in the swamp are all (I'm pretty sure all) items GA became evasive about when questioned. The duct tape, which is unique, is something GA stated on the stand that he didn't know if it was his or not, anyone could pick it up at a lowes/home depot (not quoted word for word, just by memory).

The pooh blanket, he apparently has no idea when the blanket disappeared.

The laundry bag, he claims to have no knowledge of where it was stored, when it became missing, etc etc.

I'm not sure about the trash bags, I don't recall if he was questioned about them.

 

[beccalecca1]

My daughter was 22 at the time and I can attest that even she thought Casey's behavior was abhorrent...she was a mother who had a responsibility to take care of her child...not dump her on her parents because she A) didn't feel like working but only pretended she was, or b) because she felt like partying. I don't think just any 22 year old would consistently lie to go out and party...nor would they bring their child to sleep in bed with their boyfriend.
That's just the thing...Casey didn't want the responsibility of having to work and provide for her child, she didn't want to be the 22 year old who had to stay home...she wanted a life with no Caylee. JMO

My post was in reference to another post stating that Casey's behavior (wanting to party, etc) changed when she met RM. Well, many 21/22 year olds go to bars because now they're of legal drinking age. Girls and guys included. I don't want to contribute all of her behavioral changes to RM, it doesn't make sense to me to do so.

 

[beccalecca1]

The jury's to deliberate the facts in evidence.Twisting the facts of the case to fit something they wish for is not right IMO.

Again... I'm not saying "twist the facts", I'm saying "twist your beliefs", which is where this whole post derived from.

It is a lot harder to understand my context if it's only being taken by my replies.

 

[RR0004]

BBM

And, I feel the same goes for GA. Quite interesting he'd call the police to report Gas cans with gas (totaling about $50) missing, but wouldn't call the police when he thought he smelled a dead body in the trunk and hadn't seen his granddaughter in a month. Since they both behave this way, I think it's fair to see them equally involved in whatever happened.

But, if your wife says she speaks to your daughter on a daily basis why would the first thought be- "Oh, my Casey killed Caylee"...IMPO...George was probably worried that Casey had been involved with something else...and I'd want to hear that explanation first if I was behaving like a parent. Can you imagine how much worse George would have looked if he had blamed Casey for an anonymous death? (not saying he looks bad to me) Don't get me wrong...I think deep down inside George was probably worried about both Casey' and Caylee's welfare...but who in their right (normal) mind, would even be able to wrap their brain around their own daughter killing their beloved grandchild?

 

[Maisey]

I didn't hear anyone stating they believed GA killed his granddaughter. Did you hear the jurors saying that?

Jury Foreman own words.

VAN SUSTEREN: Suspicious that he was involved in covering up the death, suspicious he was involved with the -- an accidental death, or suspicious he was a murderer?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All three.
VAN SUSTEREN: Really, that he was a murderer?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All three. We don't know. We don't know. The suspicions were raised.
VAN SUSTEREN: In the deliberation room?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We talked about it in deliberation. Yes, I can go a little more in depth into what we did in the deliberation room since I was the one who had to orchestrate the whole situation.
VAN SUSTEREN: How many people do you think at least -- and maybe it changed during the course of deliberations, but how many initially thought that George was responsible for a murder?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George? Well, you know, there is no -- the problem is with the gray area, there's no way that we can tell the responsibility. What was in question a lot of times dealt with, you know, Caylee was with Cindy the night before. When she came back the next night, they looked at the pictures of them at the retirement community. Then, you know, they went to bed.
You know, guardianship, when it started, who was looking out for her that next day? You know, George and Cindy and Casey all took hand in raising Caylee. We know that, you know, Cindy went to work. And then the gray area comes in.
VAN SUSTEREN: But at that gray area, I'm thinking, you know, the -- I realize that George isn't charged in this case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. Right.
VAN SUSTEREN: And he's not charged (INAUDIBLE) Casey, but what I find interesting is that some jurors thought that he might be responsible not just for an accident or cover-up but for a murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was just -- it was just one of those things where we -- because he was there and there was a gray area there, he was in question for -- you know, for -- for us just being -- having -- having some character issues when he was on that stand. And he was there. He was there at the time, on that day that all the gray area is happening with us. And that puts him in that mix. It put him in the mix for us


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/on-th...39everything-was-speculation039#ixzz1SmVSSqLx
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

 

[beccalecca1]

IF.....it was a drowning.....I believe she was unconscious before being PUT in the pool. Easy, clean and quick. GA wasn't there and had nothing to do with it.

There is no evidence to support that.

I'm not sure why its so hard to think that a 2 year old got out of the house and drowned.

 

[Who_What_When]

The flurry of cell phone calls on June 16 show the agitation Casey had to find a sitter, calling tthe same number over and over and over. The problem could not be solved. Casey felt CA and GA were working against her, refusing to watch Caylee as they disapproved of her friends and lifestyle. This was their only way to keep her in check, they thought. The only way to get her to be more of a mother. This made Casey VERY angry, how dare they ruin my night! I want to see my new and wonderful boyfriend Tony! And so she solved it in a way only a cold-blooded sociopath could. She killed Caylee, put her in the trunk, and went to be with Tony. She KNEW she would kill Caylee beforehand if necessary, and had the duct tape (with steak knife to cut it), plus the chloroform to knock her out first.

Snipped & BBM

I never saw those calls as Casey calling for a babysitter. I always felt that the flurry of phone calls led more to the possibility that is was an accident. I always wondered if things would have been different had Cindy picked up the phone. If it was an accident I think that those calls were her panicking because of what happened to Caylee and when no one answered I think it gave her time for the reality of it all sink in. That’s when I think she decided that she had to cover it up because they would never ever forgive her.

 

[Trident]

But there's no emotion attached to thinking, perhaps even believing, a grandfather could have abused Casey and Caylee?

No, I don't think so, at least not in my case. We read about it every day in families more upstanding than the As and in families less upstanding. Fact is, this type of thing is UNDER reported.

 

[beccalecca1]

Yes, I do believe the jury foreman mentioned that George could have killed Caylee.

Could have. I don't believe he stated GA killed Caylee. Just like Joe Blow down the street could've murdered Caylee.

I'm not understanding why the only thing that makes sense in this case is that she was murdered. Maybe I'm ignorant, but I don't see that being the only possibility here.:twocents:

 

[cluciano63]

Snipped & BBM

I never saw those calls as Casey calling for a babysitter. I always felt that the flurry of phone calls led more to the possibility that is was an accident. I always wondered if things would have been different had Cindy picked up the phone. If it was an accident I think that those calls were her panicking because of what happened to Caylee and when no one answered I think it gave her time for the reality of it all sink in. That’s when I think she decided that she had to cover it up because they would never ever forgive her.

I think this is a possibility as well, and possibly why the State did not bring all of these calls into evidence...not wanting the jury to think that there had been an accident.

 

[GracieLu]

My original point still stands. GA did not call 911 when we know for sure he should have. So, I believe he wouldn't call 911 at other times too.

Maybe Im in the minority but I have a son who is FCA's age (25) and if I believed his car smelled like a "damn dead body" was in it, I sure as heck would want to ask him about it first.... Not saying I wouldn't call the police, just saying I would question him first.

Caylee was not missing when GA was at the tow yard (per CA's testimony about the phone conversations she had with FCA daily). GA testified that he thought "please dont let this be my granddaughter or FCA" when he smelled decomposition in FCA's car but nothing was in the car (except a bag of garbage).

Again, if my sons car smelled like a "damn dead body" was in it, I would question him first. I would probably be thinking "what in the he** has one of your friends done!" I would never think he killed my granddaughter (if I had one) and threw her in the trunk - NEVER - especially if he were telling my husband about all the fun my granddaughter was having for the past 30 days!

when FCA admitted she hadn't seen Caylee for 31 days, 911 was called!

 

[Baznme]

My understanding from SP's email to her sister, this was pretty recent.

And, the alimony was on top of having to give away half her house, she would have to support him for a period of time, monthly alimony payments. That is why she opted out of the divorce. She worked too hard for that family, and she didn't want to lose is all (which I understand completely).

That email is old. A lot of us that have been here for years are familiar with this email. It's not new and it's here in the archives of Websleuths.

As far as the alimony, the value of the house, I'm not going to argue those issues as none of that matters as to his involvement one way or the other in his grandaughter's demise. He had a life before all this as did we all but, it's getting a little out of scope as you seem to be so anti-GA and I really am having a difficult time trying to understand why. Some of the points you make toward his behavior prior to this event have nothing to do with the verdict.

 

[Trident]

Jury Foreman own words.

VAN SUSTEREN: Suspicious that he was involved in covering up the death, suspicious he was involved with the -- an accidental death, or suspicious he was a murderer?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All three.
VAN SUSTEREN: Really, that he was a murderer?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All three. We don't know. We don't know. The suspicions were raised.
VAN SUSTEREN: In the deliberation room?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We talked about it in deliberation. Yes, I can go a little more in depth into what we did in the deliberation room since I was the one who had to orchestrate the whole situation.
VAN SUSTEREN: How many people do you think at least -- and maybe it changed during the course of deliberations, but how many initially thought that George was responsible for a murder?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George? Well, you know, there is no -- the problem is with the gray area, there's no way that we can tell the responsibility. What was in question a lot of times dealt with, you know, Caylee was with Cindy the night before. When she came back the next night, they looked at the pictures of them at the retirement community. Then, you know, they went to bed.
You know, guardianship, when it started, who was looking out for her that next day? You know, George and Cindy and Casey all took hand in raising Caylee. We know that, you know, Cindy went to work. And then the gray area comes in.
VAN SUSTEREN: But at that gray area, I'm thinking, you know, the -- I realize that George isn't charged in this case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. Right.
VAN SUSTEREN: And he's not charged (INAUDIBLE) Casey, but what I find interesting is that some jurors thought that he might be responsible not just for an accident or cover-up but for a murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was just -- it was just one of those things where we -- because he was there and there was a gray area there, he was in question for -- you know, for -- for us just being -- having -- having some character issues when he was on that stand. And he was there. He was there at the time, on that day that all the gray area is happening with us. And that puts him in that mix. It put him in the mix for us


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/on-th...39everything-was-speculation039#ixzz1SmVSSqLx

Truth is, I've had the same thoughts as the jury foreman and I've been on this case since day 1.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Again... I'm not saying "twist the facts", I'm saying "twist your beliefs", which is where this whole post derived from.

It is a lot harder to understand my context if it's only being taken by my replies.

Maybe twist is a poor word to use.Let say that my belief is GA lied about KH. There should be no reason to twist.

 

[beccalecca1]

But, if your wife says she speaks to your daughter on a daily basis why would the first thought be- "Oh, my Casey killed Caylee"...IMPO...George was probably worried that Casey had been involved with something else...and I'd want to hear that explanation first if I was behaving like a parent. Can you imagine how much worse George would have looked if he had blamed Casey for an anonymous death? (not saying he looks bad to me) Don't get me wrong...I think deep down inside George was probably worried about both Casey' and Caylee's welfare...but who in their right (normal) mind, would even be able to wrap their brain around their own daughter killing their beloved grandchild?

In total honesty, if I walked up to my daughter's car, smelled what I thought was a dead body in the car. Found trash in the car, so possibly I briefly thought it was trash. But, then I drove the car home and the whole time I mulled over if it was a dead body smell or trash in the car (I'm sure he mulled this a little at least), and my wife told me she would handle it at this point.....

I would still have looked into it myself. GA is known for being a private detective in the family when he's trying to get to the bottom of it. Why wouldn't he try to get to the bottom of a dead body smell, even if he knew Casey was fine, didn't think Caylee was the root of the smell, and that maybe Casey was just hanging around a bad group of people. If I thought my child was hanging around a bunch of people that possible run around killing people and putting them in trunks of cars, I would do everything in my power to get her away from those people and keep her away. I don't see myself casually going to work.

 

[roseofsharon]

What does "win her over guy" RM have to do with anything, as far as KC's behaviour goes?

He was only basically a convenience, on-call guy-- one of a gizillion bed partners over the previous five years or better.

However, IMO, this is where the idea for chloroform for sedation came from, thus the google search on how to make it from household products.

That's where it all went wrong -- death by chloroform overdose, a long dunk in the pool to make it appear like an accidental drowning -- call, call, call CA and GA no answer -- change of heart, make it look like a kidnapping -- enter duct tape and get rid of the body asap right up the street.

Now disappear off the radar for as long as she could pull it off knowing body would decompose.

The entire crime carried out by KC -- GA, CA, LA not involved.

JIMO