If you look at it logically it's very clear who did it!

[PolyDot]

I am going to reiterate what I have said before. If she was seen for as many urinary tract infections as reported, her doctor was very neglegent in diagnosing why they were occurring. Just the shear number of times she would have been on antibiotics would be concerning. UTIs are very uncomfortable and painful and could have contributed to her bed wetting. Why did he never find out why they were occurring? If that was my child, I would have found a new doctor after the 5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13th ..... bladder infection. Why didnt Patsy seek out a specialist or why wasnt JB referred to one.
None of this makes sense.
PR didnt risk anything by taking her to the doctor. What the heck was the doctor thinking to let this little girl suffer with chronic UTIs for so long? Add vaginitis to the mix and I feel really sad for this childs suffering.

The doctor may have been incompetent, but it is more likely that he was in denial, unable to reconcile the idea that this seemingly upstanding middle-class family, including a father he considered a friend, could actually be involved in abusing their own child. By not treating the child he didn’t have to confront the actual truth .

 

[PolyDot]

Who exactly theorized the SA to be Don Paugh??? Why would his travels back to his home on Christmas eve be mysterious?? He went home to spend Christmas with his wife. he lived there.

I have never seen a report, or direct accusation that the SA was perpetrated by Don Paugh.

Why would John and Patsy cover for Don Paugh if there was any evidence that he was sexually abusing their daughter.??

Don Paugh was not present in the Ramsey home the night Jonbenet was killed.

This SA speculation seems like an attempt at misdirection from the SA abuse going on amongst Jonbenet's nuclear family.

Exactly my thoughts

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

The doctor may have been incompetent, but it is more likely that he was in denial, unable to reconcile the idea that this seemingly upstanding middle-class family, including a father he considered a friend, could actually be involved in abusing their own child. By not treating the child he didn’t have to confront the actual truth .

I understand SA can be hard to diagnose in the office setting, but good Lord, did no alarm bells go off for any reason be it SA or something as benign as a bacterial infection . I am of the same notion that he didnt want to offend PR because even if we assume its from poor hygiene, that child had an unacceptable amount of bladder infections. Who was helping her? Even if PR was undergoing treatment, her mother was there and Im guessing she wasnt bed bound for years.

 

[judithannegg]

The Ramseys found a ransom note around 5.30 am in the stairs inside their house......logically after reading the note any normal individual would have looked around the house for the child and also to see if the person who wrote that note is still in the house and/or from where that person may have entered the house to make sure the house is now secure because they have another child in the house with them to protect.

I would have personally searched the house relentlessly from top to bottom looking for my precious child before or while my wife would be calling 911. If they would have done that they would have found Jonbenet in the house right then. The fact that Jonbenet was in the house all this time and they failed to locate her is illogical. They never looked for her because if they would have they would have found her...even if it was a big house SHE WAS IN THE HOUSE!! She could have been easily found....they never looked for her because they knew where she was all along. All this case was about her been kidnapped which was not true to later been found in the house.....

At this point to know exactly what happened and who did it is not as important as to simply figure out if it's an inside job or if it's something done by someone from outside. We all know that if Burke was responsible for what happened to Jonbenet either by accident or done intentionally it was impossible for Burke to write that ransom note by himself he was too young to write that and trying to cover it up by himself unbeknownst to the parents is impossible....the parents would have to be involved in this either way.

On the 911 call Patsy sounded/acted out of breath desperate her daughter was kidnapped but she was surely not out of breath searching desperately for Jonbenet in the house because she would have found her....she was in the house.

I will spare you Ramseys strange behavior following the 911 call and the manner in which John Ramsey found Jonbenet later in the house full of guests up to not wanting to speak with the authorities to interviews on TV....illogical again.

To me 1 minute into this case my logic tells me the Ramseys are the ones responsible for Jonbenet's death.

They also did not wake up Burke to ask him if he saw or heard anything! They let him sleep. Even after the police came, they let him sleep because his parents didn't want to wake him up. WHY NOT? Ask him if he saw anything! Years later he went on Dr. Phil and mentioned that he was downstairs after his parents went to sleep. Someone interviewed his father after that and his father said that was the first he heard of it. I have always and still do think the brother did it.

 

[Styngyn]

Yes , sounds like there was a lot going on with things reading come to a head . it’s possible the grandparents or PR were concerned about JBR health , made the calls to Dr. and 911 . And maybe it was all going to come out and the perp would be exposed - hence the murder .

Yeah who knows. TONS of speculation, no solid or forensic proof of anything

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

So my husband’s cousin used to get serious UTIs when she was a little girl. Her mother left her when she was a baby and she was left to her dad and 3 other kids. They were all devastated and sadly, kind of ignored teaching the baby how to properly take care of herself. She was in diapers way too long and once she could use the bathroom on her own, she didn’t wipe properly or change her underwear regularly. So, she got infections. When was Patsy getting cancer treatment? Was JB ignored a bit during that time?

I think the scenerio you present is feasable but JB was under the care of a doctor. If you consider who many UTIs she had, PR wasnt undergoing treatment the entire time and her mother was watching the kids.
Sadly what happened to your husbands cousin was due to neglect. Was JB neglected also?

 

[Styngyn]

They also did not wake up Burke to ask him if he saw or heard anything! They let him sleep. Even after the police came, they let him sleep because his parents didn't want to wake him up. WHY NOT? Ask him if he saw anything! Years later he went on Dr. Phil and mentioned that he was downstairs after his parents went to sleep. Someone interviewed his father after that and his father said that was the first he heard of it. I have always and still do think the brother did it.

Same here, still in the BDI camp. But that's only if I were forced to bet money on it. Other scenarios can work too if you can find a way to make the missing puzzle pieces fit. Also it CAN be possible that if she were being SA'd, it could be an entirely separate matter from the murder itself. It may NOT be, but it COULD be. Keep in mind this girl was in these extravagant pageants which would draw all sorts of unwanted pedophile attention, even from family members. I don't rule out entirely JDI, PDI, IDI, or even a friend of the R's that really knew the house! But each theory has major holes in it

 

[Mr.Dandy]

Perhaps unintentional neglect. My husbands cousin was neglected because the other kids and the husband were very distraught by the sudden departure of the mother(she just left one day and never came back). His uncle still hasn’t recovered. I mean, no one meant to neglect her, it just kind of happened because of everything that was going on. No excuse, just stating facts. Maybe JB suffered some unintentional neglect when PR was undergoing cancer treatment. I imagine she was at doctors offices a lot. She was probably sick in bed a lot. Dad and brother were probably just…..doing their best..

 

[Gigiky]

They also did not wake up Burke to ask him if he saw or heard anything! They let him sleep. Even after the police came, they let him sleep because his parents didn't want to wake him up. WHY NOT? Ask him if he saw anything! Years later he went on Dr. Phil and mentioned that he was downstairs after his parents went to sleep. Someone interviewed his father after that and his father said that was the first he heard of it. I have always and still do think the brother did it.

God forgive me if I'm wrong but I have always thought BR played some part in this. JMO.

 

[PolyDot]

Yeah who knows. TONS of speculation, no solid or forensic proof of anything

Very true , however there doesn’t seem to be forensic proof - hence no charges .

 

[PolyDot]

God forgive me if I'm wrong but I have always thought BR played some part in this. JMO.

See I have never thought that - I guess I see him as a victim also . I do realise that children do kill/torture- but it is exceptionally rare - whereas we know child SA by a known person is unfortunately more common . I am not discounting that BR might have engaged in sexualised behaviour towards his sibling ( common in children that have been abused ) . However , parents could have protected him in a different manner.

 

[Tower]

I am going to reiterate what I have said before. If she was seen for as many urinary tract infections as reported, her doctor was very neglegent in diagnosing why they were occurring. Just the shear number of times she would have been on antibiotics would be concerning. UTIs are very uncomfortable and painful and could have contributed to her bed wetting. Why did he never find out why they were occurring? If that was my child, I would have found a new doctor after the 5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13th ..... bladder infection. Why didnt Patsy seek out a specialist or why wasnt JB referred to one.
None of this makes sense.
PR didnt risk anything by taking her to the doctor. What the heck was the doctor thinking to let this little girl suffer with chronic UTIs for so long? Add vaginitis to the mix and I feel really sad for this childs suffering.

I strongly agree with everything you said except the bolded sentence. She certainly appears to have had poor healthcare based on what we’ve been told.

But every time JBR was taken to a doctor, PR was risking someone would uncover the SA, if PR knew it was occurring. If she wanted to cover it up, she would not risk any outsiders examining JBR.

 

[PolyDot]

I strongly agree with everything you said except the bolded sentence. She certainly appears to have had poor healthcare based on what we’ve been told.

But every time JBR was taken to a doctor, PR was risking someone would uncover the SA, if PR knew it was occurring. If she wanted to cover it up, she would not risk any outsiders examining JBR.

PR might have suspected - but wanted proof

 

[Tower]

PR might have suspected - but wanted proof

But the argument I was referring back to is that Patsy is part of a plot to stage a murder scene to cover up SA by someone very close to her. If she’s staging garrotes to cover SA, she certainly wouldn’t want a doctor calling CPS and reporting the family.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

I strongly agree with everything you said except the bolded sentence. She certainly appears to have had poor healthcare based on what we’ve been told.

But every time JBR was taken to a doctor, PR was risking someone would uncover the SA, if PR knew it was occurring. If she wanted to cover it up, she would not risk any outsiders examining JBR.

I have spent time working in a Pediatric office. There would have to be significant abnormalities to a childs genitals for a family doctor to identify abuse by physical exam. Most would not put a 6 year old through a pelvic exam for UTIs except perhaps a quick external exam if any and they would have to have the parents approval.
If they were suspiciousof SA, they would report it to CPS. I think the doctor would have been between a rock and a hard place. Would he ask her. " Do you think its possible someone is sexually abusing her?" What would that scenerio look like?

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

PR might have suspected - but wanted proof

How would you get proof?
Unless she was being injured, it wouldnt be obvious on physical exam. I dont think anyone here thinks she was being penetrated by and adult male. I think most would lean towards touching and or digital penetration.

 

[Tower]

I have spent time working in a Pediatric office. There would have to be significant abnormalities to a childs genitals for a family doctor to identify abuse by physical exam. Most would not put a 6 year old through a pelvic exam for UTIs except perhaps a quick external exam if any and they would have to have the parents approval.
If they were suspiciousof SA, they would report it to CPS. I think the doctor would have been between a rock and a hard place. Would he ask her. " Do you think its possible someone is sexually abusing her?" What would that scenerio look like?

As a mandatory reporter, I just report. I don’t ask questions or investigate. I am guessing Patsy would not take that chance if she thought JBR was a victim of SA by JR, BR, JAR or DP.

 

[PolyDot]

How would you get proof?
Unless she was being injured, it wouldnt be obvious on physical exam. I dont think anyone here thinks she was being penetrated by and adult male. I think most would lean towards touching and or digital penetration.

Perhaps PR thought that the dr. might disclose suspicions of sexual abuse , and that might confirm her suspicions ? It’s a very hard issue to confront , maybe she thought he might report - so she didn’t have to ?
It does seems to be very likely that she was being abused .

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

As a mandatory reporter, I just report. I don’t ask questions or investigate. I am guessing Patsy would not take that chance if she thought JBR was a victim of SA by JR, BR, JAR or DP.

I understand but we agree she wasnt getting the best of care from this doctor. Had he diagnosed it as something that PR felt comfortable going back numerous times?

 

[Tower]

I understand but we agree she wasnt getting the best of care from this doctor. Had he diagnosed it as something that PR felt comfortable going back numerous times?

My stance is her infections are likely to have a cause other than SA: poor hygiene and/or a genetic predisposition. If the cause actually was SA or she were being abused in addition to frequent infections, Patsy would bury that family secret and hide any evidence from doctors.

The most-likely scenario, from my own experience in healthcare, is children who are bring abused either don’t go to the doctor or doctor-shop and go to different ERs and doctors so no one can document a pattern.