IL - Adam Toledo, 13, shot and killed by Chicago police officer, 29 Mar 2021

[In vino veritas]

He did indeed.

People are making judgements based on a still photo which does , in fact, show empty hands. What that still does NOT show are the sequence of events immediately preceding., which all transpired in split seconds. AT DID have a gun, which he dropped as he was turning and raising his hands.
The officer does not have the luxury of stilled screen shots and slow motion video when making his decision. He also does not know the age of the suspect he is chasing in the dark.
I put a lot of the culpability of the public’s negative response toward this officer on the media. They purposely show that still shot with zero context. They also continue to use a photo of AT when he was 9 years ago, instead of recent gang photos showing his baby Diablo and lil homicide personas.
AT was failed in many ways, but part of the problem in our country is no one wants to accept personal responsibility any more. People are always the victims.... someone else is to blame.
This is a tragedy all around.

 

[tlcya]

I may get a lot of heat for this and who knows with more info I may change my POV. But I feel this shooting may be justified. as SugarQueen describes above, I believe the adult male who was firing it handed the gun to Adam and both ran down the alleyway. I believe the officer saw that gun in his possession and knew the adult male had handed it off to him. I think Adam was afraid, and so, when he knew he was caught, ditched the gun along the fenceline through an opening. I don't believe the officer saw or could say for certain that gun had left his hands.

I think Ruben Roman is responsible ultimately and I wonder if he can be charged in some way for Adam's death. I know he has been charged with felony reckless discharge of a firearm, felony unlawful use of a weapon by a felon, and felony endangerment of a child. I believe here in IL you can be charged with murder if a death occurs during the commission of another felony. I feel that would be appropriate in this case. Roman, the adult who was firing a gun at cars, out in the wee hours accompanied by a 13 year old child, and who handed that gun to the child when it was time to run from police, murdered that child just as if he pointed the gun at him and fired rather than the officer. MOO

 

[CrimeAway]

A police officer has to make a split second decision about whether or not someone has a gun in his hand.

The officer wants to go home to his family at the end of his shift.

@IceIce9 thank you for stating that.

I have no doubt that there are LEOs out there who may be

- racist
- prejudiced due to past experience
- agressive
- jaded due to negative experience
- fearful

or any combination of the above (JMO).

However, I think that is disingenuous, IMO, to suggest that police officers are going out on shift with an intent to shoot people.
I just don't believe that to be true.

Does anyone actually believe that a police officer wants to kill someone, lose their career, their identity, be splashed all over the news, and possibly be arrested, and jailed?

That's just preposterous, IMO.

Anyone losing their life at the hands of law enforcement is very, very sad, especially a teenager. JMO

 

[tlcya]

I have been googling like crazy, but can't find an answer to the question who was Roman to Toledo? Family? Someone from his neighborhood? Friend of the family?

Why on earth was a 13 year old in this man's company at 2am?

 

[tara83]

@IceIce9 thank you for stating that.

I have no doubt that there are LEOs out there who may be

- racist
- prejudiced due to past experience
- agressive
- jaded due to negative experience
- fearful

or any combination of the above (JMO).

However, I think that is disingenuous, IMO, to suggest that police officers are going out on shift with an intent to shoot people.
I just don't believe that to be true.

Does anyone actually believe that a police officer wants to kill someone, lose their career, their identity, be splashed all over the news, and possibly be arrested, and jailed?

That's just preposterous, IMO.

Anyone losing their life at the hands of law enforcement is very, very sad, especially a teenager. JMO

But officers like that have to be weeded out of the program before things like this happen.We can't keep giving officers who have aggressive,violent,racist or fearful personalities a gun and then when they kill someone just says well he/she has a tough job and it's unfortunate.

 

[In vino veritas]

I have been googling like crazy, but can't find an answer to the question who was Roman to Toledo? Family? Someone from his neighborhood? Friend of the family?

Why on earth was a 13 year old in this man's company at 2am?

Likely also a member of the gang Latin Kings. Adam Toledo went by baby Diablo and lil homicide as his gang names. Roman was most likely his mentor.

 

[fred&edna]

Didn't the 7th grader 13 year old follow the directive my dropping the gun and putting his hands in the air before he was murdered by the cop?

I'm not sure if he was about to shoot the gun or drop it.

Jmo

And, maybe we will learn the 7th grader 13 year old had been treated for a hearing problem since he didn't quickly follow the repeated directives to "stop" before the situation escalated??

 

[Gibbo214]

Likely also a member of the gang Latin Kings. Adam Toledo went by baby Diablo and lil homicide as his gang names. Roman was most likely his mentor.

Can we have a link to that please?

 

[tlcya]

[SELF SNIPPED quoted post]

John Catanzara, president of the Chicago Police Union, alleged live on CNN that Toledo was a Latin Kings member and his shooting was "100% justified" and "heroic".

edited to add above link

If a 13 year old Adam had gang involvement in his life it makes me sadder yet. In my town (I'm in IL but not Chicago) we've had a massive increase in shootings between two rival gangs. There have been 23 people shot in my city of just over 100,000 people so far in 2021. compared to 9 in 2019 and 11 in 2020. Most of that is gang rivals shooting at one another. Most of the dead range between 17 and 26. It is frightening to be the parent of a teen boy right now.

 

[tara83]

[SELF SNIPPED quoted post]

John Catanzara, president of the Chicago Police Union, alleged live on CNN that Toledo was a Latin Kings member and his shooting was "100% justified" and "heroic".

edited to add above link

If a 13 year old Adam had gang involvement in his life it makes me sadder yet. In my town (I'm in IL but not Chicago) we've had a massive increase in shootings between two rival gangs. There have been 23 people shot in my city of just over 100,000 people so far in 2021. compared to 9 in 2019 and 11 in 2020. Most of that is gang rivals shooting at one another. Most of the dead range between 17 and 26. It is frightening to be the parent of a teen boy right now.

Did he provide any proof at all of this?And using the word heroic is too much.JMO

 

[Gibbo214]

[SELF SNIPPED quoted post]

John Catanzara, president of the Chicago Police Union, alleged live on CNN that Toledo was a Latin Kings member and his shooting was "100% justified" and "heroic".

edited to add above link

If a 13 year old Adam had gang involvement in his life it makes me sadder yet. In my town (I'm in IL but not Chicago) we've had a massive increase in shootings between two rival gangs. There have been 23 people shot in my city of just over 100,000 people so far in 2021. compared to 9 in 2019 and 11 in 2020. Most of that is gang rivals shooting at one another. Most of the dead range between 17 and 26. It is frightening to be the parent of a teen boy right now.

Why were they being chased?

 

[SugarQueen]

Why were they being chased?

Are you asking why Toledo and Roman were being chased?

 

[tlcya]

Did he provide any proof at all of this?And using the word heroic is too much.JMO

I don't know if he provided proof or not. Nor do I know what you would constitute as proof.

I am not saying it is fact. Someone stated there was gang involvement. Someone else asked for a link. I went and found one. I am not stating if I believe this is a fact or not. I am simply saying this is the MSM link I located when mention of gang involvement was made.

Everyone will give this mileage they think Mr. Catanzara's statement warrants.

 

[Murder Inc]

I'm not sure if he was about to shoot the gun or drop it.

Jmo

And, maybe we will learn the 7th grader 13 year old had been treated for a hearing problem since he didn't quickly follow the repeated directives to "stop" before the situation escalated??

He stopped, dropped the gun and raised his empty hands before he was shot and murdered by the cop.

 

[SugarQueen]

Murder requires premeditation. There is absolutely nothing here that shows he was murdered.

 

[In vino veritas]

Can we have a link to that please?

<Modsnip>

I am just speculating that Roman is also gang affiliated... vaguely remember reading he was.

 

[tara83]

Murder requires premeditation. There is absolutely nothing here that shows he was murdered.

Actually I don't believe that is true.I think 2nd and 3rd degree murder doesn't require a planned out crime.Maybe a lawyer here could explain it for us?

 

[In vino veritas]

Why were they being chased?

The police were responding to reports of multiple gunshots. One of the videos released apparently shows Toledo and Roman involved in shooting at a passing vehicle, with AT being a spectator at that point.

I’m assuming AT did shoot the gun also, as he had gunshot residue on his right hand.

 

[tlcya]

Adam Toledo Was Part of Latin Kings Gang? Boy was Called 'Lil Homicide' and 'Bvby Diablo' on Social Media

 

[SugarQueen]

Actually I don't believe that is true.I think 2nd and 3rd degree murder doesn't require a planned out crime.Maybe a lawyer here could explain it for us?

True, I think 2nd, and 3rd degree may differ by state?