IL - Adam Toledo, 13, shot and killed by Chicago police officer, 29 Mar 2021

[scriabina]

Does anyone actually believe that a police officer wants to kill someone,...

Yes, there are certainly examples of cops deliberately killing victims seemingly out of hatred and without valid justification. But this sad case is not one of them.

lose their career, their identity, be splashed all over the news, and possibly be arrested, and jailed?

Certainly not, same as any murderer. They hope/expect to get away with it.

 

[scriabina]

But officers like that have to be weeded out of the program before things like this happen.We can't keep giving officers who have aggressive, violent, racist or fearful personalities a gun and then when they kill someone just says well he/she has a tough job and it's unfortunate.

Exactly! Worth repeating for sure!

LE officers need to be free from prejudice and bias. Lives depend on it. Yes, it is sometimes challenging to be objective & unbiased but that should be a major part of LE training, and if they fail that training, they should not be LE officers.

Not saying that's necessarily the case here as the circumstances do not seem to indicate the officer was a bad guy or acting with prejudicial malice.

 

[SugarQueen]

According to this article Roman was already on probation for gun charges when he was arrested in this incident. That tells me he wasn’t supposed to have a gun.

Nagging questions remain in Adam Toledo case after prosecutors falsely claim teen had gun when shot

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Police officers killed more than 1,100 people in 2020, according to Mapping Police Violence.

• That averages out to about three police killings each day.
• Nearly 30% of those killed were Black and more than 20% were Hispanic.

Only 16 of the 1,128 incidents resulted in charges filed against the officer — a mere .01%. Even fewer resulted in convictions.

The Washington Post's Fatal Force project, which tracks fatal shootings committed by on-duty police officers, reported 1,020 gun deaths at the hands of the police during 2020 and also found that Black people and Hispanic people were shot and killed by officers at a disproportionate rate.
There were only 18 days in 2020 that the police didn't kill somebody, according to police accountability data

To put it in perspective though it needs to show how many people killed had a weapon themselves, whether a firearm or knife or some other kind of lethal weapon or was trying to wrestle the officer's gun away from them.

I find the first link title very misleading as if cops are the only ones who were violent when they killed someone in the line of duty. That is completely eliminating any violence on the part of every one shot by an officer. Most are armed or are aggressive at the time of the shooting refusing to drop their weapon or even firing it at the officers at the time.

Police officers come across the most violent dangerous people in our society from murderers, gang members who are often armed, armed robbers, pedophiles, and rapists. Most of the ones who turned south quickly aren't the Mr. Rodgers type of people. Most situations are shoot or be killed themselves.

That's why most are ruled justified because there was a dangerous threat to the officers life or the public. Example: day before last in San Antonio, Texas a potential mass shooter with a rifle was brought down by a Park Police officer near the airport eliminating the threat.

Jmho tho

 

[imstilla.grandma]

To put it in perspective though it needs to show how many people killed had a weapon themselves, whether a firearm or knife or some other kind of lethal weapon or was trying to wrestle the officer's gun away from them.

I find the first link title very misleading as if cops are the only ones who were violent when they killed someone in the line of duty. That is completely eliminating any violence on the part of every one shot by an officer. Most are armed or are aggressive at the time of the shooting refusing to drop their weapon or even firing it at the officers at the time.

Police officers come across the most dangerous people in our society from murderers, gang members who are often armed, armed robbers, pedophiles, and rapists. Most of the ones who turned south quickly aren't the Mr. Rodgers type of people. Most situations are shoot or be killed themselves.

That's why most are ruled justified because there was a dangerous threat to the officers life or the public. Example: day before last in San Antonio, Texas a potential mass shooter with a rifle was brought down by a Park Police officer near the airport.

Jmho tho

I downloaded their entire database yesterday. It has so much info and details. Everything you ask to be considering factors is there in this goldmine database. I downloaded it into an excel spreadsheet. It goes all the way back to 2013. I’m a little rusty, a lot rusty lol. I’d love to put it on a shared Google Drive file to see what kind of data we sleuthers can dig out but I don’t think Drive is an allowable link.

Filterable identifiers in database:
Victim's name

Victim's age

Victim's gender

Victim's race

URL of image of victim

Date of Incident (month/day/year)

Street Address of Incident

City

State

Zipcode

County

Agency responsible for death

ORI Agency Identifier (if available)

Cause of death

A brief description of the circumstances surrounding the death

Official disposition of death (justified or other)

Criminal Charges?

Link to news article or photo of official document

Symptoms of mental illness?

Armed/Unarmed Status

Alleged Weapon (Source: WaPo and Review of Cases Not Included in WaPo Database)

Alleged Threat Level (Source: WaPo)

Fleeing (Source: WaPo)

Body Camera (Source: WaPo)

WaPo ID (If included in WaPo database)

Off-Duty Killing?

Geography (via Trulia methodology based on zipcode population density: http://jedkolko.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/full-ZCTA-urban-suburban-rural-classification.xlsx )

MPV ID

Fatal Encounters ID

Encounter Type

Initial Reported Reason for Encounter

Names of Officers Involved

Race of Officers Involved

Known Past Shootings of Officer(s)

Call for Service?

 

[kittythehare]

I downloaded their entire database yesterday. It has so much info and details. Everything you ask to be considering factors is there in this goldmine database. I downloaded it into an excel spreadsheet. I’m a little rusty, a lot rusty lol. I’d love to put it on a shared Google Drive file to see what kind of data we sleuthers can dig out but I don’t think Drive is an allowable link.

Girl, you never fail to amaze me!
I would love to see that.
Thank you for always going that step further.

 

[MaryG12]

What was a 13 year old doing out at 2:35 am with an armed 21 year old? Shouldn’t the armed 21 year old be responsible for something too?

I want to know what a 13 year-old was keeping company with the 21 year-old. More importantly, was Adam's parents at all aware of the fact he was keeping company with a 21 year-old?

This senseless tragedy was totally preventable.

 

[MaryG12]

I agree but unfortunately the MSM is creating their own narrative evidenced by what is trending on Twitter.

I guess the days of real journalism are over and I happen to work in publishing for ten years now.

That's the biggest tragedy of all.

 

[SugarQueen]

This is the screenshots I was trying to get. It shows AT turning, notice his right hand is not fully raised. It IS at a good height to fire at the officer.
This officer had ONE second to decide what to do. ONE second to determine if AT may still have a gun in his hand. ONE second to decide to shoot, or risk being shot.
ONE second.....would YOU be able to determine, in ONE second , if AT still had the gun? Would YOU be willing to risk it?

Adam Toledo Shooting: Slow-Motion Video Of Second Before Teen Was Fatally Shot

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I downloaded their entire database yesterday. It has so much info and details. Everything you ask to be considering factors is there in this goldmine database. I downloaded it into an excel spreadsheet. It goes all the way back to 2013. I’m a little rusty, a lot rusty lol. I’d love to put it on a shared Google Drive file to see what kind of data we sleuthers can dig out but I don’t think Drive is an allowable link.

Filterable identifiers in database:
Victim's name

Victim's age

Victim's gender

Victim's race

URL of image of victim

Date of Incident (month/day/year)

Street Address of Incident

City

State

Zipcode

County

Agency responsible for death

ORI Agency Identifier (if available)

Cause of death

A brief description of the circumstances surrounding the death

Official disposition of death (justified or other)

Criminal Charges?

Link to news article or photo of official document

Symptoms of mental illness?

Armed/Unarmed Status

Alleged Weapon (Source: WaPo and Review of Cases Not Included in WaPo Database)

Alleged Threat Level (Source: WaPo)

Fleeing (Source: WaPo)

Body Camera (Source: WaPo)

WaPo ID (If included in WaPo database)

Off-Duty Killing?

Geography (via Trulia methodology based on zipcode population density: http://jedkolko.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/full-ZCTA-urban-suburban-rural-classification.xlsx )

MPV ID

Fatal Encounters ID

Encounter Type

Initial Reported Reason for Encounter

Names of Officers Involved

Race of Officers Involved

Known Past Shootings of Officer(s)

Call for Service?

You are amazing! Thank you.

Imo, though many may not have the attention span to want to go one by one to actually see the factual circumstances around each shooting. Lol!Not me though I've gone through them before line by line including the links to local articles for each one. I love seeing the true facts about any subject matter.

I can't think of the link I use most often at the moment. I'm reluctant to trust certain sites because they could have biases of their own.

The site I follow is in real time as they happen started by an AA gentleman going all the way back several years.

It does show the number shot, and killed who were unarmed
by officers of all races are very low among all races.

And as you know being unarmed isn't any guarantee the officer can't be in great danger. We saw that when Mike Brown tried to take Officer Wilson's gun away from him, and Eric Holder/DOJ investigated it thoroughly, and the shooting was ruled justified by OW by the DOJ back in 2014 or 15, iirc.

Jmho

 

[In vino veritas]

I guess the days of real journalism are over and I happen to work in publishing for ten years now.

That's the biggest tragedy of all.

I truly believe a great deal of the unrest prompted by this tragedy is the fault of MSM.
They immediately circulated the story showing the screen shot with AT’s arms up without any other context. Looking solely at that photo, one would surmise that AT had his arms up for a significant amount of time and the officer shot him anyway. If the media had also posted screen shots, with time stamps visible, from the video immediately preceding, they would have depicted events as they truly occurred.
To further exacerbate a tense situation, the media continues to circulate the photo of AT from what is clearly a few years ago... when he was perhaps 9 or 10.
I truly do not understand their intent.... is it to foment continued unrest, or is it merely to generate revenue... consequences be damned??

 

[alwaysonmymind]

I can’t imagine being a police officer. I also can’t imagine trying to raise my children in a city like Chicago.
So many shootings they have ‘gun shot sensors’ that send a signal to a monitoring company who in turn notifies the police if it is actually gunfire.
I’m in Texas and was hopeful when I learned Chief David Brown formally of Dallas was hired as the head of the Chicago PD.
Sadly, it doesn’t seem like the gun violence, gang activity has slowed down at all.
Prayers for all involved in this tragedy.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

I truly believe a great deal of the unrest prompted by this tragedy is the fault of MSM.
They immediately circulated the story showing the screen shot with AT’s arms up without any other context. Looking solely at that photo, one would surmise that AT had his arms up for a significant amount of time and the officer shot him anyway. If the media had also posted screen shots, with time stamps visible, from the video immediately preceding, they would have depicted events as they truly occurred.
To further exacerbate a tense situation, the media continues to circulate the photo of AT from what is clearly a few years ago... when he was perhaps 9 or 10.
I truly do not understand their intent.... is it to foment continued unrest, or is it merely to generate revenue... consequences be damned??

I saw the video in various media broadcasts and didn't feel deceived. Moreover, CNN had the well-respected Officer Charles Ramsey on to discuss why he felt the shooting was unfortunately justified. People have different opinions, values, and emotional reactions, media or no media.

As for the photo of the child - it reminds us that he was a child, and things went very wrong in this child's life (and in his neighborhood). Far better than other "media" trying to whip up hate against him - unnecessary in a situation where the officer will rightfully not face legal consequences in all likelihood.

 

[al66pine]

Public Safety? Gunfire Locators? Technology?

... a city like Chicago.
So many shootings they have ‘gun shot sensors’ that send a signal to a monitoring company who in turn notifies the police if it is actually gunfire...

@alwaysonmymind sbm Yes, agreeing many metro areas across the US are not safe. But it's not just Chicago.

I don't know how many cities have contracts w ShotSpotter or similar companies re gunfire locators; there are others. See Gunfire locator - Wikipedia.
These systems are used by entities other than LE - military, for one, also preserving wildlife: "High-Tech Gunfire Locator May Nab Rhino Poachers in South Africa". Scientific American. Retrieved 2018-05-31.

A 2017 article w some pro's and con's about ShotSpotter, discussed LE use in San Antonio, TX & Denver, CO. Apparently not a perfect system, ex: false positives, sending LEOs after no gunfire; other times, system failed to detect actual gunfire, not notifying LE. Seems San A. ending up not renewing contract.
San Antonio police cut pricey gunshot detection system
(or Outline - Read & annotate without distractions).

 

[kittythehare]

Public Safety? Gunfire Locators? Technology?
@alwaysonmymind sbm Yes, agreeing many metro areas across the US are not safe. But it's not just Chicago.

I don't know how many cities have contracts w ShotSpotter or similar companies re gunfire locators; there are others. See Gunfire locator - Wikipedia.
These systems are used by entities other than LE - military, for one, also preserving wildlife: "High-Tech Gunfire Locator May Nab Rhino Poachers in South Africa". Scientific American. Retrieved 2018-05-31.

A 2017 article w some pro's and con's about ShotSpotter, discussing LE use in San Antonio, TX & Denver, CO. Apparently not a perfect system, ex: false positives, sending LEOs after no gunfire; other times, system failed to detect actual gunfire, not notifying LE. Seems San A. ending up not renewing contract.
San Antonio police cut pricey gunshot detection system
(or Outline - Read & annotate without distractions).

I hadn't even known such a system existed until you mentioned it.
It sounds wonderful, when it works as it should.
There might be a less expensive way to do it.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

Public Safety? Gunfire Locators? Technology?
@alwaysonmymind sbm Yes, agreeing many metro areas across the US are not safe. But it's not just Chicago.

I don't know how many cities have contracts w ShotSpotter or similar companies re gunfire locators; there are others. See Gunfire locator - Wikipedia.
These systems are used by entities other than LE - military, for one, also preserving wildlife: "High-Tech Gunfire Locator May Nab Rhino Poachers in South Africa". Scientific American. Retrieved 2018-05-31.

A 2017 article w some pro's and con's about ShotSpotter, discussing LE use in San Antonio, TX & Denver, CO. Apparently not a perfect system, ex: false positives, sending LEOs after no gunfire; other times, system failed to detect actual gunfire, not notifying LE. Seems San A. ending up not renewing contract.
San Antonio police cut pricey gunshot detection system
(or Outline - Read & annotate without distractions).

Well, my curiosity got the better of me. I’m surprised at the number of cities using this technology.

Cities - ShotSpotter

 

[al66pine]

Age Gap? 13 y/o & 21 y/o.

What was a 13 year old doing out at 2:35 am with an armed 21 year old? Shouldn’t the armed 21 year old be responsible for something too?

@IceIce9 Whether this happened at 2:00 a.m. or 2:00 p.m., my guess about situations like this: older guy, a street gang member, recruits younger guy to commit crime, by saying They can't do anything to you because of your age, won't put you in jail, etc, maybe just juvie detention. Older guy is trying to distance self from the crime, hopes if younger guy is caught, arrested that he won't squeal. If younger one talks or if older guy is arrested on other evd, older guy hopes he'll get lower charges, since he was not the hands-on, caught-in-the-act perp.

Younger guy basks in 'camaraderie' of older bad- dude/street gang, maybe is provided w drugs, alcohol, $$$.

Just a possibility, not saying it was true here.

Also re this 21 y/o, iirc, he has been charged w some crimes.

 

[PommyMommy]

APR 17, 2021
Cook County prosecutor blamed for errant in-court description of Adam Toledo shooting is placed on leave - Chicago Tribune
A day after Cook County prosecutors partially disavowed statements they made in court about the police killing of 13-year-old Adam Toledo, the office declined to elaborate on what exactly went wrong and why.

But the Assistant State’s Attorney who made the statements was placed on leave Friday, a spokeswoman for the office confirmed Saturday morning.

[...]

Watched in aggregate, the videos show Toledo apparently tossing a gun away a moment before the officer fires, and his hands appear empty and raised at the moment he is shot.

[...]

Still unclear: How many people in the prosecutor’s office had access to footage of the shooting; how much footage they could access; who signed off on the language Murphy used in court; and why they waited nearly a week before clarifying their statement.

[...]

 

[PommyMommy]

APR 17, 2021
Man From Little Village Says He and His Mom Witnessed Police Shooting of Adam Toledo – NBC Chicago
One man says he and his mom witnessed from his apartment in the city's Little Village neighborhood a Chicago police officer shoot 13-year-old Adam Toledo in an alley.

JH, who was born and raised in Little Village, said he and his mom saw everything from their apartment window and described that night as "traumatizing."

He said they have already shared their accounts of what happened to several investigators with the Chicago Office of Police Accountability and the Cook County State’s Attorney’s Office prior to the body camera video being released to the public on Thursday.

[...]

 

[kittythehare]

APR 17, 2021
Cook County prosecutor blamed for errant in-court description of Adam Toledo shooting is placed on leave - Chicago Tribune
A day after Cook County prosecutors partially disavowed statements they made in court about the police killing of 13-year-old Adam Toledo, the office declined to elaborate on what exactly went wrong and why.

But the Assistant State’s Attorney who made the statements was placed on leave Friday, a spokeswoman for the office confirmed Saturday morning.

[...]

Watched in aggregate, the videos show Toledo apparently tossing a gun away a moment before the officer fires, and his hands appear empty and raised at the moment he is shot.

[...]

Still unclear: How many people in the prosecutor’s office had access to footage of the shooting; how much footage they could access; who signed off on the language Murphy used in court; and why they waited nearly a week before clarifying their statement.

[...]

They had to clarify them once LE released the footage, that was Thursday night.
Then everybody saw it and hard questions were asked.