IL IL - Barbara, 15, & Patricia Grimes, 13, Chicago, 27 Dec 1956

[Claudette]

I need some help finding a newspaper article if anyone would care to chip in.
I don't recall the title but the article was about a snow plow driver whose name I believe was Elmer Lumpp.
Lumpp claimed that a few days prior to the girls being discovered, he was standing no more than 50 feet from that exact location and he is positive the bodies were not there.

I need a link to the article if it can be found.

I believe the article title is "Plow Driver Denies Girls Were There" or something similar.
It would have been written between 1957 and 1958

Elsworth Lumpp

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=888&dat=19570218&id=4j1SAAAAIBAJ&sjid=OnYDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7252,1703001

 

[Gunther Toody]

Elsworth Lumpp

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=888&dat=19570218&id=4j1SAAAAIBAJ&sjid=OnYDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7252,1703001

Thank you Claudette!
That is the exact article I was looking for.
His statement throws a wrench into the theory that the girls were there for any great length of time, which I agree with.

 

[Bargle]

Here is another angle that gives some idea of the relationship between the road and where they were found. This was taken while the bodies were still there to the best of my knowledge

I found a larger version of the picture at the link below. It shows there is a slight hill approaching the dump site. Not a big one, but it is there.

http://www.hauntdetective.com/image...s-girls-discoveredgrimes-girls-discovered.jpg

And here's an article with an aerial view of the dump site.

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/6b/09/04/6b09042ea085ed9f2fdeaaf085ec7049.jpg

 

[Gunther Toody]

I found a larger version of the picture at the link below. It shows there is a slight hill approaching the dump site. Not a big one, but it is there.

http://www.hauntdetective.com/image...s-girls-discoveredgrimes-girls-discovered.jpg

And here's an article with an aerial view of the dump site.

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/6b/09/04/6b09042ea085ed9f2fdeaaf085ec7049.jpg

Leonard Prescott was coming from the other direction....putting him in the right lane.
There is a slight elevation from that side as well. I published a modern day image of the road from the direction he was traveling a few pages back.

 

[Natasha (Tash) Simp]

Is there any chance of someone giving the Wikipedia article about the Grimes sisters' - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_the_Grimes_sisters - some love and care?

 

[Gunther Toody]

Is there any chance of someone giving the Wikipedia article about the Grimes sisters' - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_the_Grimes_sisters - some love and care?

There are too many errors in the Wikipedia article to make it worth much.
I don't have the time or desire to name them all but here are a few....

Discovery of bodies[edit]
Following a thaw and rain,[6] on January 22, 1957, a construction worker named Leonard Prescott found the nude bodies of the Grimes sisters in a snowbank behind a guard rail off German Church Road, in unincorporated Willow Springs (later incorporated as part of Willowbrook in 1960). It was thought that they had most likely been dumped there from a passing car. Barbara Grimes lay on her left side with her legs slightly drawn up toward her body. Patricia Grimes lay on her back, covering her sister's head, with her own head turned sharply to the right.[2]

The girls were not found in a snowbank.
The weather chart I posted shows temps reaching into the fifties for the two days prior to their discovery and the mid to upper thirties for several days before that. Consequently, there was no snow on the ground when they were found.

They were possibly dumped from a car, but the body position they were found in was not the position they were placed in originally...someone moved the bodies.
We know this because Barbara had grooves in her back from ground contact and livor mortis on her upper back and right shoulder area. Or it may be possible they were laying in weeds at another location and brought to where they were found with the markings already present.

 

[Gunther Toody]

No snow on the day the girls bodies were discovered.
Later that day toward evening a snowstorm did occur dumping several inches.

 

[Natasha (Tash) Simp]

Most likely people got confused about when the snowstorm was?

 

[Gunther Toody]

I want to give the board an update on the case.
We have met with high ranking officials from the city of Chicago as well as law enforcement.
The case is also being reviewed by a leading investigator.

If it is decided to go ahead, a contact is waiting with the Cold Case Unit of local law enforcement.

Sorry for being so vague, but I don't feel it prudent to name names at this time.

 

[Gunther Toody]

I want to give the board an update on the case.
We have met with high ranking officials from the city of Chicago as well as law enforcement.
The case is also being reviewed by a leading investigator.

If it is decided to go ahead, a contact is waiting with the Cold Case Unit of local law enforcement.

Sorry for being so vague, but I don't feel it prudent to name names at this time.

I just received word that there is "official interest" in the case.

There will be another meeting set up in downtown Chicago with Cold Case detectives, as well as prominent politicians who can really push things through if need be.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Just heard about this thread so marking my spot. Heard about the Grimes case years ago. Very intriguing for sure.

 

[TedMac]

Just heard about this thread so marking my spot. Heard about the Grimes case years ago. Very intriguing for sure.

Hi Jersey Girl! Glad you are joining us on this case. If you get a chance, read Gunther Toody's posts here. He has put forth a lot of time and effort and is working with Chicago authorities trying to bring the killers to justice. Also, there is a really good Facebook Page (Help Solve Chicago's Grimes Sisters' Murder) that contains a lot of good information.

 

[Gunther Toody]

We are meeting next week at City Hall in Chicago with Cold Case reps and city leaders.
I will share the results of the meeting with you at that time.

 

[Hoosgirl]

We are meeting next week at City Hall in Chicago with Cold Case reps and city leaders.
I will share the results of the meeting with you at that time.

Best of luck to you! Thanks for all your work and dedication.

 

[*Lash*]

GT, thanks for the link to this case. Very intriguing and sad. I have been reading nonstop for the past 5 hours.

I have to keep in mind this all happened in the 50's. A different era and a totally different world. I keep asking myself why the third girl would hitch a ride with a stranger after she had just been assaulted by a stranger in the theater? She admits because she was in the back seat she could not see the face of the driver. How did she know she wasn't getting in a vehicle with the man that had just assaulted her? After the assault in the theater wouldn't you want to make sure you were not hitching a ride with the same man?

 

[Gunther Toody]

GT, thanks for the link to this case. Very intriguing and sad. I have been reading nonstop for the past 5 hours.

I have to keep in mind this all happened in the 50's. A different era and a totally different world. I keep asking myself why the third girl would hitch a ride with a stranger after she had just been assaulted by a stranger in the theater? She admits because she was in the back seat she could not see the face of the driver. How did she know she wasn't getting in a vehicle with the man that had just assaulted her? After the assault in the theater wouldn't you want to make sure you were not hitching a ride with the same man?

I have talked to the third girl about the case but it is very delicate.
She has ongong health issues with cancer and she is still affected by the Grimes case.
It was brought up about it possibly being the same man, but she felt sure it wasn't.
I think she feels guilty that she got out of the car and left them.
As far as them getting into the car to begin with...people I've talked to say it was pretty commonplace at that time.
Unfortunately, the third girl sat directly behind the driver and could not describe him beyond the fact that he was tall and had an unusual type of voice.

The day after the disappearance the police did go to her home to talk to her but she denied even being in the car out of fear of her father, who would get very angry that she was in a car with a strange man.

 

[Gunther Toody]

Recently, information has come to light that offers new insight as to what happened to the girls that night.
In her book on the Grimes case, "Murder Gone Cold", Tamara Shaffer mentions a woman named Stelle Boske, who lived at 2418 W. 35th St.
Mrs. Boske told police that at about 12:15 on the night the girls disappeared, she heard three terrifying screams that seemed to be coming from behind her house. Unfortunately, Boske did not have a phone so she just locked her back door and did nothing more.

This event would have taken place a good 1/2 mile West of where the girls were last seen, so its significance is not really compelling.

Now...

Further research has turned up an article from the Chicago Sun Times dated Feb. 3, 1957 that details the incident with Mrs. Boske.
It turns out her address was not 2418 W. 35th but actually, 2118 W. 35th St, which puts her right around the corner from where the girls were last seen and we believe they were abducted.



The red dot in the above image that is to the far right, is the last known location of the girls as they were seen by Earl Zastrow and Ed Lorden. Earl claimed he and Ed were driving at the approximate location represented by the dot to the right of center.

Stelle Boske's home is represented by the dot to the left, which is right next to elevated railroad tracks. A newer building sits on that site now, but back in the 50's a typical storefront with an upstairs apartment was likely there. Behind it would have been a dark isolated area. In light of this new revelation, we are now of the opinion that this is where the girls were sexually assaulted and possibly killed.

Boske was sure they were screams for help and there was terror in the voice.

The building in this image is much newer and is located where Boske's home was at the time.
The tracks are still there and the driveway which leads behind the building is still there.

 

[TedMac]

@ GT...Yes, I can see the images. In light of MS Boske's reported information, do you still feel the killers are the same people you originally suspected?

 

[Gunther Toody]

Yes.
It actually makes the case more solid.

 

[TedMac]

How many of that group are still living? I believe I read somewhere that at least one of them has died.