IL IL - Barbara, 15, & Patricia Grimes, 13, Chicago, 27 Dec 1956

[annegrete]

This case is super intriguing.

I think the girls were killed the night they disappeared or within a day of their disappearance. Their bodies were frozen in a large meat locker for a few weeks before being dumped outside.

 

[Natasha (Tash) Simp]

OK.

It's generally agreed:

* - autopsy results showing that both girls had been raped by the killer was concealed/covered up at the time of the murders because the moral atmosphere of the 1950s prized girls' "innocence" and "purity".

* - After 58 years, the murderer is either very old or very dead and if he's dead, he's beyond Earthly justice.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

This case is super intriguing.

I think the girls were killed the night they disappeared or within a day of their disappearance. Their bodies were frozen in a large meat locker for a few weeks before being dumped outside.

That's my theory too :wink:, I wonder if they died while being held captive in the meat locker, froze to death. From the autopsy reports, one had a few ice pick stabs in the front area and the other girl was beaten around the head, but both did not die from those injuries. Freezing to death in a meat locker does seem logical. jmo

 

[Natasha (Tash) Simp]

I still think it's strongly possible they were alive when he stripped them naked. It would be a great way of making them feel degraded, humiliated and vulnerable - the feelings would be heightened because these were girls of the 1950s - also it would hasten their deaths when he put them in the meat locker.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I still think it's strongly possible they were alive when he stripped them naked. It would be a great way of making them feel degraded, humiliated and vulnerable - the feelings would be heightened because these were girls of the 1950s - also it would hasten their deaths when he put them in the meat locker.

What I find interesting Natasha, the newspaper of the day (1956) had the crime scene photo of their naked bodies beside the road on the front page. So the report kept out the grisly details of rape but their dead bodies was ok to print. Must have been shocking at the time, the local paper also printed the photo of the dead bodies of the schuessler-peterson boys who were murdered 1955, in Chicago also. That also is an interesting case. Just so many unsolved crimes, very sad.

 

[Natasha (Tash) Simp]

Prime Suspect, I think it illustrates the 1950s morals very well - it was ok to show them dead but admitting to any violation of girl's sexual purity/virginity was right out.

 

[Natasha (Tash) Simp]

Prime Suspect, do you think that if there *hadn't* been a cover-up of the fact that Barbara and Patricia had both been raped and there hadn't been a order to the press at the time saying they couldn't publish certain aspects, that there would have been a better chance of the murderer being caught?

 

[STANDREID]

What I find interesting Natasha, the newspaper of the day (1956) had the crime scene photo of their naked bodies beside the road on the front page. So the report kept out the grisly details of rape but their dead bodies was ok to print. Must have been shocking at the time, the local paper also printed the photo of the dead bodies of the schuessler-peterson boys who were murdered 1955, in Chicago also. That also is an interesting case. Just so many unsolved crimes, very sad.

Yes, I remember that newspaper photo being quite the subject of discussion at school that day. I was 11 at the time.

 

[Natasha (Tash) Simp]

Stan: I'm pretty sure a lot of schoolboys at the time who saw the corpses photo in the paper would have remarked on how Barbara looked voluptuous for her age. As i said earlier, this would have made her a sexual target for male predators, including her and her sister's rapist and murder.

 

[STANDREID]

One of my schoolmates told us about the photo because his parents took the Chicago paper. My parents only took our local paper so I didn't actually see the picture at the time. I have seen the picture since however.

 

[Natasha (Tash) Simp]

I hate the morals of the 1950s helping to deny justice for the Grimes sisters. By the way, is anyone else starting to feel ooky about calling them just "Barbara" and "Patricia"? After all, we aren't their family or friends and just because someone admires Eleanor Roosevelt doesn't mean they get to refer to her as just Eleanor.

 

[annegrete]

They also had attractive faces, in addition to Barbara having a nice figure.

Where can I view the autopsy report?

 

[Natasha (Tash) Simp]

Apparently Mayor Daley interfered with the investigation as well, purely because one of the people involved planned to use it as a launchpad to run for Governor.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Prime Suspect, do you think that if there *hadn't* been a cover-up of the fact that Barbara and Patricia had both been raped and there hadn't been a order to the press at the time saying they couldn't publish certain aspects, that there would have been a better chance of the murderer being caught?

I agree, withholding that crucial evidence was damning for the case, these girls were selected for rape and murder and serial sex offenders in the area should have been checked. These girls might have known the perpetrator, may not have been as random as LE thinks. jmo

A 40 yr old cold case has recently been solved in my area, the perp ended up being the girl's second cousin. The remaining family were shocked, they said he was never on their radar, he was early 20's at the time of the rape and murder.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

They also had attractive faces, in addition to Barbara having a nice figure.

Where can I view the autopsy report?

This is the only site I found that had their autopsy reports.

http://www.prairieghosts.com/grimes.html

 

[Natasha (Tash) Simp]

It sounds like a bad movie plot - facts covered up because they didn't fit with prevailing morals, interference from the Mayor himself, police incompetence, press censorship... Barbara Grimes and Patricia Grimes deserved better.

 

[amber1]

I'm curious for opinions: Was this done by a local, someone they knew or a serial killer passing through the area?

 

[annegrete]

I'm curious for opinions: Was this done by a local, someone they knew or a serial killer passing through the area?

Good question. I am torn, leaning a bit more toward it was someone they knew.

I am also conflicted about the girls' personalities and attitudes at the time of their murders. Were they running wild, ex. visiting bars? Or were they not? Did they have any close friends who can confirm either way?

 

[Gunther Toody]

Its wonderful to see interest in this case growing.
I have been investigating this for several years know many answers.
Unfortunately, people have to come forward and tell what they know for this case to be solved. So far, they refuse to.
I can share certain things with you, and others I can not, because people are still alive that are involved in the case.

As far as the rape goes...there were no real physical signs on their bodies, but it appears that sperm was found inside Barbara.
Nothing was found in Patricia.

We believe it was someone from the neighborhood who abducted them and took them to Willow Springs, where they were ultimately found.
The only way the bodies could have stayed in the condition they were found in is if they were placed in an area out of the elements that allowed them to cool fairly rapidly.

I can probably answer many of your questions on the case if you would like.
I have met with the Grimes family and they are still dedicated to solving this case.

 

[Natasha (Tash) Simp]

Gunther Toody:

Why does the fact that some people are still alive come into this?

Surely concealing things led to the problems solving the case in the first place?