IL IL - Chicago Tylenol Murders: 7 people dead from cyanide poisoning, September - October1982

[Kell1]

Correct. Johnson & Johnson says they tested millions of capsules (I want to say it was 6.5 mil) while FDA/law enforcement did the rest of the testing (1.5 mil capsules).

No one else did testing of the capsules before they were all destroyed.

They investigated themselves, and we all know exactly how problematic that is.

Right, i mean why destroy any potential evidence unless you are involved

 

[Betty P]

Correct. Johnson & Johnson says they tested millions of capsules (I want to say it was 6.5 mil) while FDA/law enforcement did the rest of the testing (1.5 mil capsules).

No one else did testing of the capsules before they were all destroyed.

They investigated themselves, and we all know exactly how problematic that is.

I wonder which ones the FDA tested? Were they a sample from both production facilities or just one? How much information about the investigation is still on file?

What’s the likelihood there were contaminated capsules distributed in areas besides Chicago? It seems unlikely , but hard to say. If contaminated product shipped elsewhere, there should have been some reports of people being poisoned or contaminated product found. It all happened very quickly, within hours or a day. Was it ever determined how long

Chicago area may have been the only place affected. If so, that seems relevant.

 

[Kell1]

I wonder which ones the FDA tested? Were they a sample from both production facilities or just one? How much information about the investigation is still on file?

What’s the likelihood there were contaminated capsules distributed in areas besides Chicago? It seems unlikely , but hard to say. If contaminated product shipped elsewhere, there should have been some reports of people being poisoned or contaminated product found. It all happened very quickly, within hours or a day. Was it ever determined how long

Chicago area may have been the only place affected. If so, that seems relevant.

Possibly there's also the chance there were many more deaths that weren't discovered. Cyanide deaths if not observed can to a point resemble other medical issues, first its not that obvious , but becomes more obvious later in stages of livor mortis as the pooling blood will appear bright red instead of the usual darker color

If toxicology tests werent performed its not impossible the deaths were attributed to other causes

 

[333_OnlyHalfEvil]

Possibly there's also the chance there were many more deaths that weren't discovered. Cyanide deaths if not observed can to a point resemble other medical issues, first its not that obvious , but becomes more obvious later in stages of livor mortis as the pooling blood will appear bright red instead of the usual darker color

If toxicology tests werent performed its not impossible the deaths were attributed to other causes

I had not thought of that, but people with known medical conditions and/or elderly people could have died and no one realized it was from the Tylenol they took. Yikes.

 

[sleeptoker]

exactly

I had not thought of that, but people with known medical conditions and/or elderly people could have died and no one realized it was from the Tylenol they took. Yikes.

Exactly. Why would they autopsy anyone over 50 (especially if they were slightly overweight) suffering from a heart attack for anything else? I actually shudder to think how many more people died that we will NEVER know about.

 

[kemo]

Cook county and other countries in the Chicago metro area went back and reviewed the medical records of everyone who died suddenly and unexpectedly in the two month period before and after the Tylenol deaths. Apparently in these types of deaths, full autopsies were always done and blood samples were retained (but testing for cyanide was not routinely done). All of these retained blood samples were tested and three of those deaths were discovered to have cyanide and were reclassified as homicides. All three had initially been labeled accidental drug overdoses due to the positive presence of drugs (apparently all cocaine). These deaths occurred more than a month before or after the Tylenol deaths and none were in the same geographic areas. All of these cases were determined to be unrelated to the Tylenol deaths and were assumed to be “drug related” homicides. None resulted in prosecution. If you are inclined to trust Law Enforcement, this might satisfy you that there were no other deaths related to this incident.

 

[Melquiades]

Weird documentary. Interesting case and worthy of a deep dive but the series basically just goes off the deep end into conspiracy theories and Big Pharma fearmongering.

Literally zero evidence that Johnson & Johnson did anything wrong, just a whole bunch of vague insinuations.

Like, the poison capsules were found in bottles produced in factories at opposite ends of the country. It’s pretty cut-and-dried that this was done at the store level and basically impossible that it was a production error or a rogue employee. And when it’s that obvious, of course the company isn’t going to be investigated deeper.

Likewise I doubt they were thrilled about the prospect of paying for the testing of literally millions of bottles of pills that they knew were all just fine.

James Lewis is overwhelmingly likely to be the killer. Guy was a known murderer with a grudge against Johnson & Johnson, wrote the ransom note, was credibly accused of drugging someone later in life.

 

[Nough S. Sherlock]

Cook county and other countries in the Chicago metro area went back and reviewed the medical records of everyone who died suddenly and unexpectedly in the two month period before and after the Tylenol deaths. Apparently in these types of deaths, full autopsies were always done and blood samples were retained (but testing for cyanide was not routinely done). All of these retained blood samples were tested and three of those deaths were discovered to have cyanide and were reclassified as homicides. All three had initially been labeled accidental drug overdoses due to the positive presence of drugs (apparently all cocaine). These deaths occurred more than a month before or after the Tylenol deaths and none were in the same geographic areas. All of these cases were determined to be unrelated to the Tylenol deaths and were assumed to be “drug related” homicides. None resulted in prosecution. If you are inclined to trust Law Enforcement, this might satisfy you that there were no other deaths related to this incident.

Mark Husted was absolutely within the geographic area. Watkins and Parriott were near north, certainly within the bounds.

 

[Nough S. Sherlock]

Really interesting podcast. I've always agreed about the distribution aspect, that it had to be someone who planted it after it shipped from factory and before it was sent to stores.

Wow about the stuff found at the Howard Johnson's hotel parking lot in Elgin, IL. Big boxes and bottles of Tylenol, broken etc. all over the lot. White powder that sickened police after they looked at it.

Illinois State Police diverted the collected evidence that was to go to Joliet for analysis and latent fingerprints, to Chicago's Dept. of Toxicology. Why?

 

[JCM]

I've just listened to an interview with the author of a book entitled "The Tylenol Murders: A Father's Confession to His Son." The author is convinced that his father was the Tylenol poisoner. As near as I can tell, his most tantalizing evidence is that his father once killed a tree with cyanide. No, I'm not kidding. Actually, I am kidding (a little).

It's clear that this gentleman was what might be colloquially termed an a**h***. It's also clear the author didn't have the best childhood. Here are some of the major points of emphasis that I took away from the interview:

• In the late 1970s, his father was obsessed with Jonestown. He also owned a book entitled "The Poor Man's James Bond." In which the author discusses using potassium cyanide to fill capsules as a method of murder. You know who else owned this book? Roger Arnold. Doesn't make him the killer, either.
• In the early 1980s, his father had a special room (he refers to it as his 'lair'). The author of 'A Father's Confession' recounts having broken into this room to see what was there. He had some eyebrow-raising books, like the one mentioned above, as well as "The Anarchist Cookbook."
• As previously mentioned, he used cyanide once to kill a tree that stubbornly would not die.
• He also recounted having gone on a trip with his father where he and his siblings were left in the woods outside of Chicago while his father 'ran some errands'. The errands so happened to be near several of the locations where potassium cyanide-laced Tylenol was purchased from.

That's it, basically. He says he has contacted Arlington Heights LE and become a pain to them. He also contacted the niece of one of the victims – something I think is honestly quite improper – and had her reduced to tears by the end of their phone call, insisting that his father was the poisoner.

It's not often that I actively get angry at a podcast, but I did during this interview. The author brushes aside a mention of James Lewis ('he was out of town'). Even though most LE have concluded that Lewis was the most likely suspect.

Quoting from an interview done with Christy Gutowski and Stacy St. Clair of the Chicago Tribune (promoting their podcast and book, "Unsealed: The Tylenol Murders"):

But one of the most compelling things that we saw was an undercover FBI video clip and this was taken Circa 2007 during Task Force 2 and Stacy had talked about how Roy Lane and another FBI agent which they called Sherry Nichols, that’s not her real name, but they worked undercover with Lewis gaining his trust under the guise that this other FBI agent, Sherry Nichols, was writing a book about the Tylenol case and did not believe it was Lewis and Lewis was helping her.

So, in 2007, Stacy and I actually got to see this this video which I’ve been reporting for 30 years you don’t see undercover FBI video especially not in Chicago until a case is charged. Sometimes even after that. But it was telling it was this timeline that Stacy talked about earlier. Remember they locked Lewis into a timeline in 1983 during these meetings with Roy Lane and Jeremy Margolis and Lewis had said that he practices his letters whenever — he’s a big letter writer. While they’re looking for him in the manhunt, he was writing letters to the Chicago Tribune, the Kansas City Star, all these different authorities.

So he said that he had practiced letter for at least three days. And in the video, he’s sitting at a hotel in downtown Chicago and he’s got a messenger bag across his chest and one of the FBI agents is wearing a little undercover surveillance video camera. And in the next room is behavioral FBI analyst who are feeding kind of language, a narrative to tell to Roy Lane and this other FBI agent. And they’re talking to him about his timeline. And he says, Roy Lane has a manila folder and he draws a calendar on it and he goes backwards.

He’s like, “You know Jim, if you didn’t mail the letter until three days, that’s going back to before the people took the tainted capsules.” And Lewis, you could tell he’s like, “Well, when did they die?” And at one point, he’s clutching the messenger bag and looking very nervous and quiet. He’s like, “Well, it must be faulty memory. I’ve been telling myself for at least three days but that can’t be right. That’s not possible.” And another thing that he didn’t realize at the time was, the FBI never knew. Task Force never knew when he mailed that letter during his extortion trial, attempted extortion trial in 1983. They just said early October.

But through advances in technology, the FBI lab was able to lift layer upon layer of ink off of the postage and they found out that he mailed it October 1. So the earliest he got it, if he got in the mail October 1 and he count backwards, there’s a timeline problem for Lewis especially if you remember that he said that he didn’t learn about the killings until he read that New York Times article on the first.

The first poisoning was, of course, September 28, 1982, 12-year-old Mary Kellerman.

 

[airportwoman]

I have a copy of "The Anarchist's Cookbook" (still in the shrinkwrap) and a copy of "Mein Kampf", which I haven't read either. Does that make ME a subversive? Not necessarily.