IL IL - John Wayne Gacy

  • #121
Henley Killed Corll because Dean had tied him up and threatened to kill him and he had been trying to get away from Dean for a long time. (Confessing to family who disregarded his statements) Once Dean was dead, the circumstances verified by the 2 people that were involved, one being Rhonda Williams. Henley out of guilt and wanted it off his chest (he had a severe drinking and drug problem because it was eating at him) told them of the boat shed. He could have walked and said nothing. The killing of Dean was ruled a justifiable homicide, especially with the torture board and plastic on the floor and Dean Naked with a victim confirming it all. Instead he came clean and tried to get the bodies known to the police. Brooks started to admit his part and then his father and lawyer shut him up. Up until his death David Brooks did not help much. Henley was more forthcoming than he needed to be.
He could have told the police "We were at this place partying, we all passed out and then we woke up tied and gagged and Dean threatened to kill us all after he had his fun." Which is what happened. If he had said nothing else that would have been as far as it went. If the police started looking and found the other bodies then he could have played dumb and that would have been it.

I think those actions kill the theory that it was Henley and Brooks and Dean was not involved. If that was the case then they could have kept going for the "organization" once the police stopped looking and they shut up. Henley knew he was going to jail and spoke anyway.
 
  • #122
I think those actions kill the theory that it was Henley and Brooks and Dean was not involved.

Who is saying Dean wasn't involved though? And that Henley and Brooks were the real culprits?
 
  • #123
I guess it was interesting coming across this. I’ve done a lot of research into Gacy, Paske, Rossi, etc… one of the primary researchers out there.

It’s hard to say for sure if Paske would have had anything to directly do with Gacy’s crimes though it’s not completely out there either.

If you read the book Omnipotent: Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell it becomes more confusing when Paske could have first started working for Gacy.

For example his probation record stated in 1976 that he was using the name Patches at work. Interestingly Russel Nelson had worked at the same bar: Carols Lounge at some point. Though, Patches was one of the clown names Gacy used though Rossi also used this name.

Anyway, Paske had pay stubs for September 1978 for Gacy. Paske was also incredibly involved in Norman’s endeavors between when he got released in 1976 and I would say when he was finally tracked down in I believe it was 1979 though never convicted.

For example, Paske had an arrest in San Diego in 1977. Which the senate hearings that year tried to claim that the cross country program that was set up under Delta ended when Norman went back to prison in November 1976 which was where individuals looking for young boys were sent to buyers.. they pretty much arranged a place for both of them to meet.

The Delta Project also had a PO Box set up in both San Diego and LA at this time. The senate hearings also mention that they were able to reach him by phone for Norman’s number for operations. Though, I forgot the source that said this again but it claimed that Delta stopped operating in 1977 but it’s hard for me to fully believe that because Norman still had other people set up around the country such as in NY and California.

Cook County PD was extremely lazy when it came down to their investigation, despite even arresting Paske in 1979 for his involvement in the Delta Project they didn’t use this as a time to bring him to the John Wayne Gacy trial where he was on the witness list as an ex employee or anything like that simply let him go.

It’s possible that maybe at some point Paske was no longer trying to run Delta after Norman went back to prison and that was why he was employed by Gacy but the timeline is such a confusing mess.

A letter Gacy wrote had also stated Paske started in August 1978 and that he had fired him.

I also can’t say for sure that Paske truly killed anyone, in the 1973 Murder Robbery he was the getaway driver/lookout and didn’t do the actual stabbing. It’s hard to say that him, Bone, and Angel had anticipated on killing Kerley as Kerley was elderly and passed of pneumonia after the stabbing. The stabbing I’ve theorized could have been more of a way of disarming him to rob him of collectibles which in his case he was a coin collector.
 
  • #124
Great post Moev, if one wanted to dive deeper into that senate meeting where should they start?
 
  • #125
Great post Moev, if one wanted to dive deeper into that senate meeting where should they start?
Here’s a link to it, it includes a lot of information on Norman and many others who were operating. - Protection of children against sexual exploitation : hearings before the Subcommittee to Investigate Juvenile Delinquency of the Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate, Ninety-fifth Congress, first session, Chicago, Ill.-May 27, 1977, Washington, D.C.-June 16, 1977 : United States. Congress. Senate. Committee on the Judiciary. Subcommittee to Investigate Juvenile Delinquency : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

I know Guy Strait and one of the individuals involved in North Fox Island had talked, they tried to get Roy Ames who was tied to Corll but he had declined saying his operations would be “fine”. If you read the scientist and the serial killer you’ll find he had two individuals who were helping him run Bryant Burch and Edward Cunningham.. both deceased now but it included a story with the kid who had shot Burch in the 90s ultimately killing him. A lot of their operations were the same as Corlls… I always felt it was all one crime operation in one area.

Based on that book Burch and Cunningham were procurers and also involved in child 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬.. based on the guy who shot Burch who’s name I forgot, Burch was HIV positive and threatened to have him “disappear” if he left. Which fits the MO of other things we had seen such as the Waldrop brothers father claiming they had been hanging around Roy Ames and the crumpled up police report found in the boat shed.

That book also mentioned Mark Scott and they had interviewed a friend of his. The friend said he had gotten in trouble for a knife charge as he had always carried around a knife and his parents were trying to dock it down where he’d be charged as a minor. This is likely why Mark had a knife on him in Corlls house if you go off Henley’s recollections.. though it was a likely culprit for killing Scott especially as the friend had mentioned he had been robbing tricks who had solicited sex with Scott.. often how he made $$ selling things to Corll. Which as known Henley and Brooks also talked of robbing houses including of victims such as Billy Lawrence.
 
  • #126
This is an interesting article https://www.thehotstar.net/odysseynetwork.html

On August 13th detectives then called Dallas PD to inform them of the possibility connection between their case and Dallas.10

The very next day, on August 14th, Dallas PD received a tip from an anonymous informant about a man running a mail-order child 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 and prostitution service out of his Dallas apartment. Acting on this, they arrested a 45 year old man named John David Norman found at the address in the company of five teenaged boys, and from inside the apartment seized photographic equipment and child 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬. In addition to this it had been filled with enough publishing stationary, files, and literature to fill an entire van, all pertaining to an organization called “The Odyssey Foundation”. Amongst the files were thousands of index cards with names and addresses reportedly “listing clients around the country, some of them prominent people and some federal employees in Washington”.11 12 13 14 15

Mail correspondence from the apartment had been forwarded through a post office box registered in San Diego to organization called The Odyssey Foundation. The foundation ostensibly operated as a non-profit mentorship program of adult ‘sponsors’ providing lodging and travel expenses to out of State boy ‘fellows’ for educational visits. The 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 and profiles of available boys would be listed like classified ads within the foundations literature sent to subscribers, who could then arrange for a boy they liked to come visit them for an extra fee. The operation spanned from coast to coast across the United States using mostly young runaways who’d be sent interstate, making them reliant on the men who ordered them for room and board. The service had been popular amongst child pornographers who sought an influx of ’fresh talent’ to use in their photographs and films.

“Sponsors would contact the Dallas headquarters of the foundation, which would then send a fellow to the sponsor’s home. The sponsor would notify the organization how long he wanted the fellow to stay and then pay the boy’s fare to his next assignment.”

‘Police Investigating Call-Boy Operation’, Fort Worth Star-Telegram, August 16 1973
Found within the apartment used as the nexus to facilitate this trafficking ring had been pictures of boys marked with details such as their age and personality quirks. Among these had been four with the word “kill” written on them.16

Supposedly these had also been found by the informant who’d tipped off Dallas PD. They’d heard news of murdered boys in Houston and panicked after then receiving a call from someone requesting the networks services there.

johnnorman_dp.jpg

John D. Norman
To clarify the chain of events covered so far:

On August 8th Houston police discovered a mass grave of boys murdered by Dean Corll and two teenaged accomplices, Wayne Henley and David Brooks.

On August 9th both Henley and Brooks gave independent statements Dean Corll had claimed to belong to an organisation based in Dallas involved in trafficking boys and the same murderous activities.

On August 11th Houston police discovered a private post office box Dean Corll was thought to have used to ‘secretively’ receive 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 through the mail.17 18

On August 13th Houston police contacted Dallas PD regarding a possible link to their case in Dallas.

On August 14th detectives in Dallas bust an interstate boy trafficking network facilitated by a man named John David Norman using the postal service. And in his apartment they found four photographs of boys with the word “kill” written on them.

Possible links between the murders in Houston and the network in Dallas were alluded to in the press but never properly substantiated. All that was publicly known, was the tip received on the trafficking network in Dallas had come from an informant spooked by the murders in Houston. And in the apartment of the man running the network in Dallas, four photographs of boys had been found with the word ‘kill’ written on them. As it was expressed by the New York Times, “Assistant Police Chief Donald Steele reported that four pictures of young boys found in the apartment had the word “Kill” written on them. However, the police said they were told the word referred to their removal from the procurement ring's literature because they were uncooperative and did not mean they had been ordered killed.”.
 
  • #127
How do these "crazy theories" some of us have been recently saying sound after reading all of that?

If what you just read happened, which it did, then literally anything is on the table here
 
  • #128
How do these "crazy theories" some of us have been recently saying sound after reading all of that?

If what you just read happened, which it did, then literally anything is on the table here
It's like peeling an onion. Reading this site was definitely an eye opener to new information. It would underline what Henley said about being scared to go to the police, and I am shocked that his attorneys have not filed an appeal. But more than likely the reason could be that no one wants this to go mainstream.
 
  • #129
This is an interesting article https://www.thehotstar.net/odysseynetwork.html

On August 13th detectives then called Dallas PD to inform them of the possibility connection between their case and Dallas.10

The very next day, on August 14th, Dallas PD received a tip from an anonymous informant about a man running a mail-order child 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 and prostitution service out of his Dallas apartment. Acting on this, they arrested a 45 year old man named John David Norman found at the address in the company of five teenaged boys, and from inside the apartment seized photographic equipment and child 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬. In addition to this it had been filled with enough publishing stationary, files, and literature to fill an entire van, all pertaining to an organization called “The Odyssey Foundation”. Amongst the files were thousands of index cards with names and addresses reportedly “listing clients around the country, some of them prominent people and some federal employees in Washington”.11 12 13 14 15

Mail correspondence from the apartment had been forwarded through a post office box registered in San Diego to organization called The Odyssey Foundation. The foundation ostensibly operated as a non-profit mentorship program of adult ‘sponsors’ providing lodging and travel expenses to out of State boy ‘fellows’ for educational visits. The 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 and profiles of available boys would be listed like classified ads within the foundations literature sent to subscribers, who could then arrange for a boy they liked to come visit them for an extra fee. The operation spanned from coast to coast across the United States using mostly young runaways who’d be sent interstate, making them reliant on the men who ordered them for room and board. The service had been popular amongst child pornographers who sought an influx of ’fresh talent’ to use in their photographs and films.


Found within the apartment used as the nexus to facilitate this trafficking ring had been pictures of boys marked with details such as their age and personality quirks. Among these had been four with the word “kill” written on them.16

Supposedly these had also been found by the informant who’d tipped off Dallas PD. They’d heard news of murdered boys in Houston and panicked after then receiving a call from someone requesting the networks services there.

johnnorman_dp.jpg

John D. Norman
To clarify the chain of events covered so far:

On August 8th Houston police discovered a mass grave of boys murdered by Dean Corll and two teenaged accomplices, Wayne Henley and David Brooks.

On August 9th both Henley and Brooks gave independent statements Dean Corll had claimed to belong to an organisation based in Dallas involved in trafficking boys and the same murderous activities.

On August 11th Houston police discovered a private post office box Dean Corll was thought to have used to ‘secretively’ receive 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 through the mail.17 18

On August 13th Houston police contacted Dallas PD regarding a possible link to their case in Dallas.

On August 14th detectives in Dallas bust an interstate boy trafficking network facilitated by a man named John David Norman using the postal service. And in his apartment they found four photographs of boys with the word “kill” written on them.

Possible links between the murders in Houston and the network in Dallas were alluded to in the press but never properly substantiated. All that was publicly known, was the tip received on the trafficking network in Dallas had come from an informant spooked by the murders in Houston. And in the apartment of the man running the network in Dallas, four photographs of boys had been found with the word ‘kill’ written on them. As it was expressed by the New York Times, “Assistant Police Chief Donald Steele reported that four pictures of young boys found in the apartment had the word “Kill” written on them. However, the police said they were told the word referred to their removal from the procurement ring's literature because they were uncooperative and did not mean they had been ordered killed.”.
Though I would add, he also has a book called eye of the chickenhawk that was based on his webpage writings. You can find a pdf of it on archive.org - Simon Dovey Eye Of The Chickenhawk Thehotstar ( 2023) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
 
  • #130
Hey guys, I read through all of this and thought I should post a summary here so you don't have to spend that much time looking through it yourself

Full disclosure, I have been working on a crime fiction book on human trafficking in the 60's and 70's, it is pretty much written, if anyone wants a free copy send me a DM and that will be no problem

Anyways, here is what stood out in that article to me, the book I wrote has a lot to do with New Orleans so that is why they are included:

NORMAN STUFF

I opposed certain boy-sex schemes I knew about such as Father Bud Yermyle's Welcome Wagon deal, the political-motives of Guy Strait and his pushing of sex with very young boys, the "cadet" rackets of the Oddysy Foundation, and others.

Delta Project had 35,000 to 45,000 members across the nation, the Don Program, can hire a "cadet", $50 a month, then rent out to others in their area, and Norman would get a cut

Norman also had the Cross Country Program where you could fly somewhere for a quick encounter, but got shut down quickly when he got arrested in Illinois

John Norman has had similar projects before. He has set up John Norman Odyssey Foundation out of Dallas, Tex, He has set up the Oonquest Agency out of San Diego, Demalco International out of San Diego, and he set up Sex 2 publications out of St. Louis, Mo.

When he was in the Cook County Jail he published a newsletter called the John Norman Newsletter. This was to get in]nates to give him money for his cause for setting up these type of foundations so that he could get up his bail money to get out on the outside and get new clientele for his operation.

I think that is what happened and about that very time was the time that the Illinois obscenity law was thought by many to be unconstitutional and ultimately several months ago, about a year ago, it was declared unconstitutional. Therefore, the individuals felt more secure in selling this type of material openly. (my note, this also perfectly coincides with Norman showing up in Chicago)

I believe the only type of material that I had ever seen in the past always seemed to be and appeared to be of foreign origin^ but in the last 18 months I was talking about there is a proliferation of what appear to be more domestic type of material.

I would like to read one statement by John Norman describing himself. "I am a nonviolent person, who has never found it necessary to force anyone to do anything, but I am persuasive, and I have a certain charm for young people."


When you enrolled as part of the Delta Project, did you have direct communication with him ?

Mr. Lehman. I did receive all his newsletters and publications, but my only communications were with his partner, Phil Paski. That was over the telephone.


Norman keeps his own files on anyone who will subscribe to him. He has had them for years. He has a system set up that he will send them a membership card. The membership card has a little star on it. It might be red. It might be blue. It changes from time to time. If it is red, it means he is a member. He gets Norman's pamphlets. If it is blue — I am just throwing out different colors right now — but if it is blue, that means he not only gets pamphlets, but he has contacted him by telephone and has shown an interest in making arrangements to meet a young individual. Another color is used if the individual has indeed used a child on occasion for a weekend or what have you. Another color, final color, would be used if a person has either set up a dormitorv or has an apartment building, and is letting children stay there between their tours back and forth to the other individuals.

He related to me when John Norman was arrested out there, they confiscated 40,000 index cards (clients)

Mr. Lehman. Yes. These cards were then forwarded to the State Department in "Washington. I have since contacted the State Department in Washington to see if I could get a copy of his files, and the files are no longer there. I don't know if they ever received them or not. They just told me that they didn't have the files.

We asked the State Department to check into it and they say that they shredded the 35,000 cards in 1974 because they couldn't find any use for them. They didn't pertain to their department.

the first question they asked was, "Why us? "Why not the Justice Department?" The State Department took some time to investigate and their response to us was yes, that they had indeed received the cards, and the information they received with the cards had been shredded and destroyed. Apparently the reason was because they could find no passport fraud violation. That was the response we received. (from William Minitz)

There was also some information there that some passports were issued for taking a boy across the seas and into another country. (norman)

These lists are both from Norman: essentially, the Dallas 35,000 as well as the 5,000 here locally; is that correct?


When I was in Los Angeles talking to police officials there, they were very familiar with Mr. Norman. I might add that Mr. Strait, who testified before you today, was very familiar with Mr. Norman. Mr. Norman has been operating this kind of situation since the fifties. He went by various names: Evan Goodwin, Allen Hitchcock. John Shanks, John Norman, the Odyssey Foundation, Hasting Foundation, and Epic International. The Delta Project was set up and in operation in Illinois when Mr. Norman was arrested.

Hundreds of cards for cadets


Mr. Norman corresponded with people all over the country. These people all know each other. They become privy to information that one of the main people arrested, charged, and convicted in New Orleans was in one of Mr. Norman's address book

There have also been suggestions that even in the Houston situation, there were boys brought in that were subsequently murdered.

Ms. Sneed. Well, in Dallas, for instance, they were investigating John Norman as a possible solicitor for these boys that were among the 27 boys that were found murdered in Texas.


Looks like 3 Norman lists, 35k (Dallas), 10k, and 5k


A few years ago in Houston, the police investigated the case of a man who first had sex with runaway boys, then killed them and buried the bodies. Altogether, twenty-seven bodies were recovered. The Houston police say they know nothing about such films, but a man in Los Angeles told us he had recently viewed a film showing the actual murders.

The probe led police to the discovery that Norman has a long career of sexual abuse of children. Norman, who came to the Chicago area in mid-1973 from Dallas, has a record of 13 arrests for sex offenses going back to 1954.

The Delta Project was only the latest of a series of organizations he set up to supply boy prostitutes to male customers around the country, police said.

Earlier, they said, his operation had gone by such names as the Norman Foundation, Epic International, and the Odyssey Foundation. Ironically, Dr. Judianne Densen-Gerber of New York City, heads a national movement to prevent child abuse and neglect, called Odyssey Institute. She is an outspoken foe of child 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬.

Dallas police told Sgt. Ronald Kelly, head of the Area 6 youth division, that they have information associating Norman with the ring that helped transport to Texas the 27 boys murdered in Houston in 1973 in a widely publicized sex and sadism case.

The clandestine newsletter is known as Hermes. Police said the principal figures in its publication are Elden Gale [Rusty] Wake 40, an employee of Trinity College in Lake Forest ; Patrick Townson, a Chicago man who operates a citizens band radio information show for homosexuals and is connected with the Gay News and Events newspaper, and David Berta, who along with Townson was involved in Norman's operation.

But police said they could take no action against the Hermes operation in the absence of an Illinois obscenity law. The law was declared unconstitutional by a federal court last year.

The Lake County state's attorney's office has identified Wake as an employee of a children's home and two children's camps between 1964 and 1968.


Unknown to jail officials, they said, Norman used the jail's printing facilities to send out three "newsletters" about the project to homosexual clients throughout the country and to people who answered his advertisements in gay publications.

Norman told his readers that "Delta-Dorms" were being established around the country. "Each is a private residence where one of our sustaining members acts as a 'don' for two to four 'cadets'. . . . The nature of the relationship between cadet and sponsor is left entirely to the two of them."


Officials of the Illinois Department of Children and Family Services said Bell has been in and out of orphanages and foster homes since he was 6.

They said Bell was one of several hundred Chicago children sent to foster homes* in Texas between 1952 and 1973 by the department.

A scandal blew up in 1973 when it was reported that some of the children had been stripped, beaten, and kept in solitary confinement for infractions of rules in the homes.

As an indication of the close links that exist among child sex abusers, police said the address book of John Norman, now in the Illinois state prison at Pontiac, contained the name of Raymond Woodall.



GROUP HOMES

more homes in Washington State and New York State, possibly District of Columbia, Nebraska, Iowa, Vermont, California, Pennsylvania

Pornographers in at least five states — Michigan, New Jersey, Tennessee, Louisiana, and Florida — have used or have attempted to use federal, state and county funds to establish foster homes and child care camps for their operations

Richards told police all four of these organizations were fronts for homosexual activity involving boys and all were set up as tax dodges.

Police said leaders of the organizations drew up plans to obtain federal, state and county funds for child care homes they planned to establish for homosexual and pornographic purposes.

A letter to Richards from Dyer Grossman, a New York teacher and officer of the four organizations, said counties would pay up to $150 per month per boy, states would pay up to $400, and federal agencies up to $700.

NEW ORLEANS

Kids in New Orleans were often sent to Florida, the New Orleans guys started up with other plans in mind, they were also voluntary probation officers, they would find troubled kids, go to their parents, and recommend them to go to a special school, parents would say no money and they would give scholarship, there were 6 or 7 schools in Florida but they only abused at 1

New Orleans and LA had huge numbers of runaways cuz of weather

Boys Farm in Tennessee received federal funds


The discovery of similar photographs prompted police in New Orleans to bring charges against seventeen men who were molesting boys in a Boy Scout troop with the connivance of the scoutmaster. (had no idea it was 17)

Nineteen men have been charged with multiple counts of crimes against nature, which carries a maximum penalty of 15 years on each count. Among them are two Boston-area millionaires and a California millionaire alleged to have flown to New Orleans to have sex with the boys. Police investigation of the case extended into 34 states.

Among those arrested were Richard C. .Jacobs of Arlington, Mass.. millionaire president of the Jet Spray Corp. and a former part-owner of the New England Patriots football team; Robert B. Mailers, a California millionaire; and Hugh Scott Mellor of Brighton, Mass., millionaire president of a real estate holding company.


They said Halvorsen and Woodall went to New Orleans from Coral Gables, Fla., where they had worked as maintenance men for the Adelphi Academies, identified by Florida police as a former male prostitution front that was recently sold to legitimate operators.

Peter Bradford, formerly a co-owner of the Adelphi Academies, is among the 19 men charged in New Orleans.

In 1974, Halvorsen and Woodall organized Boy Scout Troop 137 with about 40 boys as members.

New Orleans District Att. Harry Connick said the Scout leaders also drew up applications for state and federal money to establish and operate homes for boys, but had not carried through with these plans.

Sgt. Tony Raimondo of the Coral Gables police said evidence shows that Halvorsen went to a number of mothers in New Orleans and recruited six boys for the Adelphi Academies.

As an indication of the close links that exist among child sex abusers, police said the address book of John Norman, now in the Illinois state prison at Pontiac, contained the name of Raymond Woodall.

A police search of Halvorsen's files turned up the name of Rev. Claudius Ira [Bud] Vermilye Jr.

Police seized a list of more than 270 "active sponsors'' of the farm. (Tennessee)


RANDOM

Only laws (Mann Act) were about girls/women, nothing about male prostitutes

Only 4 units in the country (Houston, Chicago, LA, New Orleans)


Strait had 1200 customers of his newsletter, thought 3 other guys making 🤬🤬🤬🤬, Ames, a guy named Jerry, and an unnamed man in the Northeast, the latter the only one not caught by this hearing


Person would mail Strait, then 'send him back a letter together with a form wherein he would have to swear that he was not a police officer or a member of the Communist Party and that he was over 21 years of age'

had an undercover guy help develop the film

sold for $100 a piece, had ordered 2000, thought could get rid of 10k to 20k

Always making it sound like the kids were never forced and wanted to do it

Police estimate Strait made $5 million to $7 million from his business, which is still in operation.



Richards said would send out photos of models then people who received would want to meet, mentions Sheldon (along with Grossman and Keller?) and said he had around 600 buyers

Better Life was main organization in mid 70s, The leader is a man named Barry Wright, which may be an alias. However, an associate told me twice that his real name was Wayne Smith, the same man who runs the Mail-0-Matic operations in Rocky Mount. Their address is a Beverly Hills, Calif., post office box. The magazine is printed by the Broad Street Journal in Colorado


they all had a number like I did, BL 147

maybe 12 prints would be maybe $10, Anywhere from $75 to $200 for a 200-foot reel

I had a girlie studio called Photo Arts studio. I just used girls there from college. But the funny thing about it is that you can make more money with young male models.

I believe that 90 percent of the business is handled by the U.S. mail

Richards said Strait's newsletter and pics still getting mailed out after he was imprisoned, now called F & F Distributors

They belonged to Big Brothers and the Boy Scouts, which, of course, is a No. 1 area for a Boy Lover to be working in that field.

Richards was molested by a baby sitter




From what other areas of the world are they coming ?

Ms. Sneed. Belgium. Countries like Belgium were listed. Other places in Europe were listed. I believe the Philippines was listed. We know that some of these people who were arrested in New Orleans for having participated in a Boy Scout operation were wanted throughout the world on buggering charges.


They are also advertisements for traveling sex shows that might be coded like a magic act» that is, ''My assistant and I would like to come visit with you."


"We knew the authorities had no idea how widespread we were and how vast we were. We just wanted to make sure that these people were sincere and had money."


right now in California where young children are transported from Mexico into the confines of a car. I am not talking about the trunk of a car — these cars are specially constructed to put children inside the body of the car. They are driven across the border, driven to Los Angeles and the method is to drop them off in a garage. Then the boys are extracted from the car. ($750-$1500)

Lieutenant Martin estimates that in Los Angeles alone about 30,000 children that they know of are involved in prostitution and 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬.

I might point out that there is a journal known as Where the Young Boys Are — Where the Young Ones Are — published in California. The journal sold for $5 a copy. They sold 70,000 copies. This journal does nothing but specifically point out where you can find young children in every State of the Union



Neighborhood children that were recruited as prospective models might be taken to a camp by this very nice neighbor who the family trusted and thought was a very nice individual. Then a tradeoff would take place in which another person would have been contacted before the trip. He would be there at the camp and then the child would be out of sight for a while. This man would in effect test him out. If the boy complained to his parents that in fact something had happened, the nice neighbor would say, "Gee. that's just terrible. I didn't know what happened.

1 lost sight of him for a while. I think it's horrible."

Movies definitely being made in LA


Robin Lloyd, author of "For Money or Love : Boy Prostitution in America," found 264 different magazines depicting sexual acts between children, or between children and adults, being sold in adult bookstores throughout the country.

Although the various 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 and child prostitution operations extend across the nation, police say there is no single organization running them. But the adults involved maintain contact through newsletters and exchanges of children.

"It seems to be like spider webs strung out all over the nation,"


most child material now on the market is produced in the United States, shipped to Scandinavia, and then shipped back to America to give the impression it was made in Europe

In California, the maximum sentence for child abuse is only two years, and in 40 arrest cases in Los Angeles since September authorities have obtained just one conviction.


With the help of his partner, he incorporated as a tax exempt-front known as Brother Paul's Children's Mission.





Senator Culver. Who is Francis Sheldon?

Mr. Richards. He was a friend of mine. He paid for my office


Children in Michigan have been sexually abused at a summer camp on an island owned by a millionaire pedophile who is now in flight from Federal prosecution.


Shelden's name also appears among "sponsors" of the Boys Farm in Tennessee.

another homosexual network involving the Church of the New Revelation of Kearny, N.J., the Ocean Living Institute of New Jersey, Brother Paul's Children's Mission on North Fox Island, Mich., and the Educational Foundation for Youth of Illinois.
 
  • #131
If I remember from the book Murder machine, Roy Demeo was someone that printed and sold Child 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬. You have to wonder if he was involved with some of these people.
Phillip Paske apparently was a suspect in the Johnny Goesch kidnapping. A Private investigator that was hired by Johnny's mother, was flying to Chicago to meet with someone he knew in the government, and said he believed that Johnny was still alive. His plane crashed on the trip.

I have no doubt that these networks are still around and people in the swamp are helping them. Its disgusting.
 
  • #132
Once you start going into the Johnny angle it gets wild quick
 
  • #133
If I remember from the book Murder machine, Roy Demeo was someone that printed and sold Child 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬. You have to wonder if he was involved with some of these people.
Phillip Paske apparently was a suspect in the Johnny Goesch kidnapping. A Private investigator that was hired by Johnny's mother, was flying to Chicago to meet with someone he knew in the government, and said he believed that Johnny was still alive. His plane crashed on the trip.

I have no doubt that these networks are still around and people in the swamp are helping them. Its disgusting.
Roy didn't print it he just sold it, dude was involved in every crime you can imagine he somehow discovered CSAM peddlers and rather than dole out the violence he did to far less deserving people he made them business partners. That's why Castellano didn't want to make him (he eventually did, he also accepted envelopes from Nino Gaggi the real Captain of that Crew knowing it came from Roy and activities like that for years so he wasn't exactly a moral paragon) and why most Crews other than the similarly demonic Casso-Amuso-Furnari Crew didn't like associating with them. He was one of the worst people to exist and interestingly was apparently an amazing father according to his son, outside his crimes he was your typical suburban dad. It was the younger members of his Crew especially the Gemini Twins who were the wild cokeheads Roy was a middle aged psycho dad who wanted to be made more than anything, he got made then was killed not long after.

That Private Investigator turned on Noreen and essentially said she won't listen to reason and she makes stuff up which she definitely does.
 
  • #134
Though I would add, he also has a book called eye of the chickenhawk that was based on his webpage writings. You can find a pdf of it on archive.org - Simon Dovey Eye Of The Chickenhawk Thehotstar ( 2023) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
I'm sorry but this book is terrible. Most of his sources are tabloids and National Enquirer type publications then there's no follow up to anything because they were all shock nonsense articles spat out without any basis. It's following the JonBenet Ramsay case through the National Enquirer: The Book. You'll be left constantly asking "So what happened with that huge earthshattering thing i just read?".
 
  • #135
Since you brought it up, there were some guys from the East Coast on True Crime Garage for a few episodes of True Crime Garage (Poems & 🤬🤬🤬🤬) that were really interesting, Boulder was pretty clearly another extremely corrupted town with this filth
 
  • #136
I'm sorry but this book is terrible. Most of his sources are tabloids and National Enquirer type publications then there's no follow up to anything because they were all shock nonsense articles spat out without any basis. It's following the JonBenet Ramsay case through the National Enquirer: The Book. You'll be left constantly asking "So what happened with that huge earthshattering thing i just read?".
I would have to somewhat disagree, I felt it was good if you’re looking for information on the cases, it mostly gives information on the cases and in a lot of ways reminds me of Children in Chains by Clifford Linedecker which is also worth checking out for in depth on a lot of these guys.

Books that look deeper at the faults in the Gacy case would be Omnipotent: Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. It’s a must read and there’s a lot I remember reading there I’ve been meaning to mention over here.
 
  • #137
Once you start going into the Johnny angle it gets wild quick
Much of the Johnny Gosch angle falls apart quickly.

It’s mostly based on a description that Bonacci gave of a man named “Tony” that he claimed was involved in Gosch’s kidnapping. Some of what Bonacci said was true and backed up, but some of it cannot be proven. Someone was able to show me where the Tony story is located but there’s definitely been some myths thrown around.

Me and my friend had primarily worked on the Phillip Paske article and he couldn’t remember where he found the statement about bad complexion, later we had found out that we had accidentally picked it up from the CavDef article and removed it.

What was mentioned on the CavDef article was a theory about him being the Tony individual mentioned but no actual source can back up the bad complexion past a theory on CavDef based on the quality of a colorized photo that I feel might have been colored for one of the documentaries released. I don’t believe there’s any surviving colored mugshots of Paske and I’ve attempted for over a year to obtain more photos of him but there is nothing out there. The only thing confirmed for sure was based on informants he was cross dressing in the late 70s.

I also have believed that Paske was somewhat groomed into his involvement with Norman based on documents I had obtained that mention excerpts that Norman wrote on Paske. I believe his involvement with Norman absolutely was because it was an opportunity to commit crime and not based on any personal interest in children himself.

Though, there’s no evidence that he had also been convicted of any crimes after his involvement with Norman for abusing children or anything of this matter. His only other sex based crime which he was convicted for was soliciting sex from an undercover cop posing as a prostitute which was a few months after the Gosch abduction if I remember right. The only time Paske left the state based on what we know was when he had told his probation officer he was going to San Diego and had been charged with a DUI though not convicted. He had also told this parole officer that at some point he was going to go to Phoenix on vacation. He also had an arrest in I believe the 90s based on Judy records for speeding in Indiana but this was pretty much the outskirts on Chicagoland where this occcurred.

There’s no evidence Norman also had to directly pick up kids through means of abduction. Norman usually wrapped kids under his thumb through offering alcohol and drugs. Norman was also incredibly charismatic. There’s also no evidence Norman and Paske continued interacting after Norman moved.

It’s weird absolutely that Norman had ties to Colorado where Bonacci claimed him and other individuals had been trafficked to. I believe it’s possible Norman could have had “business” relations to the people operating that but it’s unlikely he had any direct involvement. And Norman for this matter was also in Pennsylvania at this time operating Handy Andy. I have theorized based on what Guy Strait said in the 1977 Committee hearings that Norman could have went out there as he claimed there was a man Walter Kunsing which he claimed had a similar name to the building he was interviewed in which I believe is the Kluncynzski building in Chicago who I still cannot figure out but he had operations he claimed around NJ, DC, and PA. Which again, this gives more of an idea that Norman could have had some business involvement with Craig Spence or someone like that but there’s no way to prove it for sure.
 
  • #138
Great post Moev

Bonacci is a very interesting piece to all of this, I know a lot of people doubt him, but he did bring them to the place he described in Colorado

Another name we haven't mentioned in this is Michael Aquino, possible/probable devil worshipping masochist who may have been behind the Colorado leg of the operation and who also had ties to more dirt going on in the Bay Area decades earlier
 
  • #139
Great post Moev

Bonacci is a very interesting piece to all of this, I know a lot of people doubt him, but he did bring them to the place he described in Colorado

Another name we haven't mentioned in this is Michael Aquino, possible/probable devil worshipping masochist who may have been behind the Colorado leg of the operation and who also had ties to more dirt going on in the Bay Area decades earlier
Michael Aquino was a contrarian nerd he's not some grand spectre of evil. That idea comes from Christian's who just see "Satanism" and assume it's their version of it with human sacrifices and stuff, LaVeyian Satanism is nothing like that. Aquino was accused in debunked Conspiracy Theories like McMartin Preschool and the Franklin Conspiracy simply because he was the face of Satanism zero evidence of any harming of childrern were ever found. Unsurprisingly those accusers were Christians with zero basis.
 
  • #140
Michael Aquino was a contrarian nerd he's not some grand spectre of evil. That idea comes from Christian's who just see "Satanism" and assume it's their version of it with human sacrifices and stuff, LaVeyian Satanism is nothing like that. Aquino was accused in debunked Conspiracy Theories like McMartin Preschool and the Franklin Conspiracy simply because he was the face of Satanism zero evidence of any harming of childrern were ever found. Unsurprisingly those accusers were Christians with zero basis.
I don't think it should come to a surprise to anyone that the same guy who was more or less saying the whole Norman angle couldn't be right because 'no evidence' was ever found also would make the argument that Michael Aquino was just 'misunderstood' because 'no evidence' to the contrary was ever found

You very well may be right, but, you consistently seem to expect smoking guns (with prints and DNA on em) to be produced before you will admit that anything could have happened

The problems with that are numerous, including that the perpetrators could possibly have been good at covering their tracks, could have had help from influential people to do so, and pre-DNA law enforcement wasn't always the most sophisticated

Take Bonacci for instance, of course a lot of what he said can't be proven, how could it be? Everything they did to him and the girl who they threw in prison was done to discredit them as 'criminal drug addicts who will say anything'

Writing off everything without hard evidence is doing exactly what "they" want you to do, and this is how most of the general public thinks about these things, so "they" get exactly what they want and no one ever gets found out
 

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
129
Guests online
1,388
Total visitors
1,517

Forum statistics

Threads
633,397
Messages
18,641,320
Members
243,517
Latest member
Dossier NZ
Back
Top