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He could have just hopped on a bicycle and slipped away, imo.speculation.
IL IL - Lane Bryant Murders, Tinley Park, 2 Feb 2008
- Thread starter SuziQ
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Gotcha, thanks for clarifying. Wow, it is a small world. I couldn't believe I have been driving past this spot for years -- even visiting the other stores -- without ever realizing until now.
Great question -- yes, it's easily possible that, if a car was back there, it would have been noticed -- the view of the back of those stores is completely unobstructed from Harlem and from the highway ramp, like you say. However, if the killer parked inside the delivery dock of the store, his car would have been concealed. I wondered this because, on a podcast I listened to on the case, it was said that the killer initially told the manager that he was making a delivery for the store; and that the store manager even called another store to confirm the "delivery." Obviously, he wasn't driving a truck or a delivery van, but he still may have tried to park there regardless by backing in whatever vehicle he was driving into the docking bay.
One weird thing about the docking bay is that, it is not located directly behind Lane Bryant, but behind the other stores in that entire building. The address of the current TJ Maxx is 7252, which is marked on the door in the below photo.
This is the dock, as you can see, a wall would have obscured his vehicle. He would have exited from the 7252 door, which is only a few feet away from the dock:
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Podcast on the case: 19 Lane Bryant Tinley Park IL 2008 - Already Gone Podcast - Omny.fm
I wonder if that delivery dock was even there when this happened. It could have been added when they put in the tj maxx. Tj maxx is going to get larger shipments than a store the size of lane Bryant.
You know, this thought crossed my mind too. I still feel like he had a vehicle though, but it isn't out of the realm of possibility -- although the quick response time of the police might suggest otherwise.
Good point -- I'm not sure on that. Very true that Lane Bryant isn't as big as TJ Maxx, but then again, they are a department store -- so you would think they would have some sort of dock to receive merchandise.
You're right flgrl, from this photo, it looks like the dock was not there (in 2012, before TJ Maxx):
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TJ Maxx in 2016:
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Here is a picture of that area in 2012. Do the doors match the blocked-up ones in your photo? I think they do and I think you're right again.
What do you think exactly happened at the (old) back door?
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The murders happened in the break room. There were reports that the door was in the break room and RM could have escaped but instead called 911.
I always thought he left out the back door and ran to the front where someone was waiting for him. I still believe the two vehicles that were seen on the Target camera leaving the store at the time of the murders were involved. Assuming they were, there were at least 3 people involved.
I definitely believe he had accomplices. 1) he was so brazen 2) he was able to get away in the blink of an eye 3) the suv of interest shows up when he’s in the store (I think the cops were messing with them when they released that tape) 4) it seems to be the trend in the area that you have 1 or 2 cars and the driver stays in the car. I definitely think the suv was involved and the other car was probably involved.
I think more than one was in the store when the shooting occurred. I think that because of the 911 tape. You can hear him carrying on in the background with someone.
I have no clue how he exited. I tend to think the front door. I think if he went out the back he would have stood out like a sore thumb and it would have taken longer to go around the building.
I also think the snow mountains helped them get away. You can’t see across that parking lot as well when they’re all over the place.
I’m not sure why he picked this store. I don’t think it was a hit. He would have been out quicker. Userid is right, it’s in the back of the mall plus the back of the store is so exposed. I think he has some knowledge of the inner workings of Lane Bryant. I think someone involved knew someone that worked at a Lane Bryant (probably not Tinley but another lane Bryant in the area). He knew enough about the delivery papers to make them authentic enough for RM to call the other store. I saw a lane Bryant employee on another message board say that their delivery papers were pretty standard and she would have know if they were fake. He also picked a store without cameras. I don’t think that was an accident.
I think it’s likely the face we see is not from the area since no one has identified him in. I think the accomplices knew the area well. They were able to escape so fast. I think that the face we see is probably dead. He’s managed to stay out of trouble for this long and not have a dna hit in the database. I could see his accomplices panicking and killing him.
I think more than one was in the store when the shooting occurred. I think that because of the 911 tape. You can hear him carrying on in the background with someone.
I have no clue how he exited. I tend to think the front door. I think if he went out the back he would have stood out like a sore thumb and it would have taken longer to go around the building.
I also think the snow mountains helped them get away. You can’t see across that parking lot as well when they’re all over the place.
I’m not sure why he picked this store. I don’t think it was a hit. He would have been out quicker. Userid is right, it’s in the back of the mall plus the back of the store is so exposed. I think he has some knowledge of the inner workings of Lane Bryant. I think someone involved knew someone that worked at a Lane Bryant (probably not Tinley but another lane Bryant in the area). He knew enough about the delivery papers to make them authentic enough for RM to call the other store. I saw a lane Bryant employee on another message board say that their delivery papers were pretty standard and she would have know if they were fake. He also picked a store without cameras. I don’t think that was an accident.
I think it’s likely the face we see is not from the area since no one has identified him in. I think the accomplices knew the area well. They were able to escape so fast. I think that the face we see is probably dead. He’s managed to stay out of trouble for this long and not have a dna hit in the database. I could see his accomplices panicking and killing him.
I agree on accomplices. IMO there is no way he didn't have them. I don't think he would have gotten away without detection, and it would have been super coincidental for two cars to pull up out front at the time this was going on and then leave before police arrive if they were innocent people. I'm thinking he just ran out the front door, was within a car within about 3 or 4 running steps and then they were off. It was still relatively early at that time for retail hours. I mean, there were probably other customers in the shopping center, but it probably wouldn't have been mobbed with people, since a lot of retail stores open at 10 and would have been open less than an hour at that time.
Hmm, I'm not so sure on accomplices. Of course, I don't know as much as you all probably do (I've read through the first 10 pages, with hope of reading through the entire thread) -- but at first glance, it doesn't make sense why a lone robber would rob Lane Bryant, let alone a group of robbers -- considering the haul would be so small.
This whole thing is just weird to say the least. Why did he even try to pretend he was making a delivery, let alone for a prolonged period of time (5-15 minutes) before carrying out the robbery? Why not just enter the store and immediately begin the robbery? It's like he had another agenda before he decided to simply rob the entire store. I feel like he was specifically targeting one of the two employees in that store -- I know the manager wasn't supposed to be there that day, but still, it's like he wanted to gain access to their back-room or storage room, maybe to corner/abduct one of them (i.e. why he brought the duct tape and gun) and exit? I have to wonder if the robbery part was simply spur of the moment...
This whole thing is just weird to say the least. Why did he even try to pretend he was making a delivery, let alone for a prolonged period of time (5-15 minutes) before carrying out the robbery? Why not just enter the store and immediately begin the robbery? It's like he had another agenda before he decided to simply rob the entire store. I feel like he was specifically targeting one of the two employees in that store -- I know the manager wasn't supposed to be there that day, but still, it's like he wanted to gain access to their back-room or storage room, maybe to corner/abduct one of them (i.e. why he brought the duct tape and gun) and exit? I have to wonder if the robbery part was simply spur of the moment...
I'm just bumping this post, it's very good -- especially that last paragraph, about the killer possible working as a delivery driver for FedEx, etc. I've thought this also.
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Still wondering if one person was the intended victim but all were killed to obscure who that person might be and therefore who would be the likely perp?
Could it be that one or more of the victims was actually targeted by another woman (jealousy, revenge, crazy person, who paid /commissioned the shooter to do the nasty deed and make it look like a robbery, but it (the shooter) got out of control?
speculation, imo.
Could it be that one or more of the victims was actually targeted by another woman (jealousy, revenge, crazy person, who paid /commissioned the shooter to do the nasty deed and make it look like a robbery, but it (the shooter) got out of control?
speculation, imo.
Here’s the best timeline that I’ve come up with if the events that happened that morning. There are actually 2 versions of the 911 call that were released. One was early on and the other was once they isolated the perps voice. When I listened to both versions it gave me a better perspective of what was going on inside the store at that moment in time.
Here’s the first one that was released:
Lane Bryant Homicide Investigation
We were told that he left the room and RM was able to get free and call. The ladies were all tied up in the break room. During the first call he’s talking to someone in the distance. I think at about 22 sec into the second version is when he enters the breakroom and catches her. His voice is much clearer so that tells me he’s closer to her.
Here is a good news clip with the surveillance photos:
I circled the suv of interest:
I personally think someone else got out of the suv and went inside with him and that’s why he was distracted and she was able to call.
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I definitely think being connected to a delivery driver is a possibility. If he’s not connected to a store employee in the area then that would be my second bet.
Okay, I've read up to page 20 in the thread and understand now why people believe there was an accomplice. It's a lot to digest, but I just want to make sure I understand.
- The entire ordeal (from the time the killer entered until the time he/they left) lasted at least 20 minutes (according to NBC), possibly 40 minutes (read that somewhere in this thread).
- The SUV in question arrived at 10:39 and left at 10:46, which means that the killer wasn't driving it and/or that the killer was either dropped off earlier (20-40 minutes earlier), entered on foot, or drove in a separate vehicle.
- At first, I thought the SUV in question was the clearer one you can see in flgrl's photo -- the one that has another regular-sized car parked next to it at 10:40. Now, what is up with that smaller car? According to the time stamps, that smaller car is there for a very quick amount of time also.
I'm convinced the killer had another objective in mind, and that once his initial objective became out of reach, he decided on a whim to rob the store. I'm especially convinced that he had another objective if there was indeed an accomplice. It sounds like the most plausible explanation was that his initial objective was to obtain the receipts of the store before they were taken to the bank that day -- and that he had inside knowledge that this was Lane Bryant's method -- but he either mistakenly believed the store opened at 11, or he simply ran late that day for whatever reason. I believe that, once the manager became wise about his scheme with the fake delivery, he began to panic -- and that panic reached a fever pitch as more shoppers entered the store. So he resorted to Plan B on the fly.
I guess my next questions are:
If the ordeal lasted at least 20 to 40 minutes, what did the Target camera pick up outside the 10:38 to 10:46 mark? The killer left at 10:46, which means he had to arrive at approximately 10:26 at least, if not even earlier -- were there other vehicles there at the time, in front of the store? Were there none at all? I assume that since the only footage police released contained the last 8 minutes of the ordeal, that there were no other cars there at the time the killer would have arrived.
Second, didn't the survivor confirm that he exited the front door?
(Page 19 of this thread is very good by the way).
If the ordeal lasted at least 20 to 40 minutes, what did the Target camera pick up outside the 10:38 to 10:46 mark? The killer left at 10:46, which means he had to arrive at approximately 10:26 at least, if not even earlier -- were there other vehicles there at the time, in front of the store? Were there none at all? I assume that since the only footage police released contained the last 8 minutes of the ordeal, that there were no other cars there at the time the killer would have arrived.
Second, didn't the survivor confirm that he exited the front door?
(Page 19 of this thread is very good by the way).
They say he entered at 10:08. There are some target cam blown up photos of this time on the TP PD bulletin boards. They’re looking at something for sure. He was there until at least 10:44.36 according to his voice on the 911 call. That puts him in the store about 38 minutes.
Yes the suv in question isn’t parked there until the 10:39 time stamp. It’s the dark one that parked by the front door sometime between 10:38 and 10:39.
I’m not sure exactly which car you’re talking about, but I know there is one that a lot think is involved. I just can pin point it myself. If anyone can help me that would be great.
I think the killer was dropped off and the cars were probably loitering someone else in the lot (there’s a lot of snow in the way unfortunately). It’s interesting to me that the suv pulls up at about the 30 minute mark. I wonder if he told backup to come inside at about 30 minutes.
This target camera takes still photos every minute from what we can tell.
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Lane Bryant Murders Still a Mystery 8 Years Later
In this clip you can briefly see the bulletin board with the 10:08 photos. I think there is a better video of it somewhere.
This one from page 19 is good too if y’all missed it.
10 Years Later: The Lane Bryant Murders Still Haunt Tinley Park
In this clip you can briefly see the bulletin board with the 10:08 photos. I think there is a better video of it somewhere.
This one from page 19 is good too if y’all missed it.
10 Years Later: The Lane Bryant Murders Still Haunt Tinley Park
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