IL IL - Lane Bryant Murders, Tinley Park, 2 Feb 2008

[jbirner]

First I like to say I'm glad to see this thread so active again. We need to keep this topic alive as much as we can.

I believe he was dropped off by an accomplice. I think the accomplice vehicles pulled up and at least one went inside to possibly warn him there was a LEO in the Target parking lot. RM did what she did because she thought there was imminent danger. If she thought the gunman, or gunmen, were just going to leave, she would have just stayed put and let them leave. She took a big chance calling 911 and risking being caught, knowing what would happen if she were caught. The question is, what did she overhear that made her think she and the others were in danger. I thought about the kidnapping angle as well and thought it was far fetched, but not out of the realm of possibilities. Whatever the perps were planning, RM changed the course and panic basically set in. The killer knew there was a cop close by so he knew time was very short and he had to get out of dodge very quickly.

I think TP police know much more than they are telling us, in fact I would say we know about 40% of the story.

 

[jbirner]

I am not from the area so I do not know the area as well as local, I am going by what I have read and also relying on the expertise of the locals who know the area.

 

[flgrl017]

First I like to say I'm glad to see this thread so active again. We need to keep this topic alive as much as we can.

I believe he was dropped off by an accomplice. I think the accomplice vehicles pulled up and at least one went inside to possibly warn him there was a LEO in the Target parking lot. RM did what she did because she thought there was imminent danger. If she thought the gunman, or gunmen, were just going to leave, she would have just stayed put and let them leave. She took a big chance calling 911 and risking being caught, knowing what would happen if she were caught. The question is, what did she overhear that made her think she and the others were in danger. I thought about the kidnapping angle as well and thought it was far fetched, but not out of the realm of possibilities. Whatever the perps were planning, RM changed the course and panic basically set in. The killer knew there was a cop close by so he knew time was very short and he had to get out of dodge very quickly.

I think TP police know much more than they are telling us, in fact I would say we know about 40% of the story.

Yeah, I agree. The TP PD has a lot of the answers we don’t. They know what went on inside the store because of Martha.
If someone else got out of the suv and entered the store at 10:38 like I suspect, they could have been discussing what to do with the hostages (pure speculation). I drive by the TP police dept occasionally and what I would not give to go in there and go over all their evidence. I want to figure it out since it’s so close to home.

 

[dotr]

First I like to say I'm glad to see this thread so active again. We need to keep this topic alive as much as we can.

I believe he was dropped off by an accomplice. I think the accomplice vehicles pulled up and at least one went inside to possibly warn him there was a LEO in the Target parking lot. RM did what she did because she thought there was imminent danger. If she thought the gunman, or gunmen, were just going to leave, she would have just stayed put and let them leave. She took a big chance calling 911 and risking being caught, knowing what would happen if she were caught. The question is, what did she overhear that made her think she and the others were in danger. I thought about the kidnapping angle as well and thought it was far fetched, but not out of the realm of possibilities. Whatever the perps were planning, RM changed the course and panic basically set in. The killer knew there was a cop close by so he knew time was very short and he had to get out of dodge very quickly.

I think TP police know much more than they are telling us, in fact I would say we know about 40% of the story.

That makes a lot of sense, but the thing i cannot understand is why, if he was rushed or in a panic, the perp would take the time or have the inclination, to fondle one of the victims?
imo, speculation.

 

[jbirner]

I was thinking the panic once the 911 call was made. Before the call, it seems like he wasn't in any hurry. It's as if he was angry that whatever plan he, or they, had was disrupted by the 911 call. At that point I believe his first inclination was to get out quick and leave no witnesses.

 

[flgrl017]

That makes a lot of sense, but the thing i cannot understand is why, if he was rushed or in a panic, the perp would take the time or have the inclination, to fondle one of the victims?
imo, speculation.

I’ve always assumed that happened before the 911 call. He didn’t have much time at all after it was made.

 

[flgrl017]

I was thinking the panic once the 911 call was made. Before the call, it seems like he wasn't in any hurry. It's as if he was angry that whatever plan he, or they, had was disrupted by the 911 call. At that point I believe his first inclination was to get out quick and leave no witnesses.

I think he became enraged when he caught her and shot her. Then he panicked and shot the others. I’m honestly not sure what would have happened if she didn’t make the call. How long would they have stayed and what would have happened to the hostages.

 

[Talullah]

I’m new to this case but this is what I think so far. That this guy went to the trouble of real “looking” delivery papers but didn’t know February is a slow time in retail tells me robbery wasn’t his goal-unless he only wanted a few hundred dollars. At the same time I believe he would’ve walked as many customers as he could fit in the back room. I worked retail many years by a Lane Bryant store, far from Tinley Park, and if this store had big posters hanging right inside the front door the shooter had privacy. The manager probably spared the lives of other shoppers by calling 911.

 

[flgrl017]

I’m new to this case but this is what I think so far. That this guy went to the trouble of real “looking” delivery papers but didn’t know February is a slow time in retail tells me robbery wasn’t his goal-unless he only wanted a few hundred dollars. At the same time I believe he would’ve walked as many customers as he could fit in the back room. I worked retail many years by a Lane Bryant store, far from Tinley Park, and if this store had big posters hanging right inside the front door the shooter had privacy. The manager probably spared the lives of other shoppers by calling 911.

How common is it for local stores to deliver amongst each other? When I worked retail we didn’t get merchandise from other stores.

 

[Talullah]

How common is it for local stores to deliver amongst each other? When I worked retail we didn’t get merchandise from other stores.

My store didn’t either. If we needed something from another store in our area our manager picked it up and it was never merchandise, which would’ve messed up inventory. It was usually signage or hardware.

 

[Talullah]

My store didn’t either. If we needed something from another store in our area our manager picked it up and it was never merchandise, which would’ve messed up inventory. It was usually signage or hardware.

If a customer wanted something we didn’t have we used a merchandise locator and shipped to the customer. The shooter’s paperwork set off the manager’s hinky meter or looked authentic enough to genuinely confuse her.

 

[Userid]

They say he entered at 10:08. There are some target cam blown up photos of this time on the TP PD bulletin boards. They’re looking at something for sure. He was there until at least 10:44.36 according to his voice on the 911 call. That puts him in the store about 38 minutes.
Yes the suv in question isn’t parked there until the 10:39 time stamp. It’s the dark one that parked by the front door sometime between 10:38 and 10:39.
I’m not sure exactly which car you’re talking about, but I know there is one that a lot think is involved. I just can pin point it myself. If anyone can help me that would be great.

I think the killer was dropped off and the cars were probably loitering someone else in the lot (there’s a lot of snow in the way unfortunately). It’s interesting to me that the suv pulls up at about the 30 minute mark. I wonder if he told backup to come inside at about 30 minutes.
This target camera takes still photos every minute from what we can tell.

I used your photo as a reference, I hope that's okay.

I was talking about this car encircled in blue. If memory serves (going by the time stamp) this car was here for less than a minute. There's also another SUV highlighted in yellow that was there the entire time, again, if memory serves.

I just read a report that there was a woman who actually went up to the door of Lane Bryant just as the murders were going on. She put her hand on the handle just about to enter the store, and for whatever reason, supposedly just walked away and never entered the store. Could she have been the driver of the car that I highlighted in blue?

 

[Talullah]

I used your photo as a reference, I hope that's okay.

I was talking about this car encircled in blue. If memory serves (going by the time stamp) this car was here for less than a minute. There's also another SUV highlighted in yellow that was there the entire time, again, if memory serves.

I just read a report that there was a woman who actually went up to the door of Lane Bryant just as the murders were going on. She put her hand on the handle just about to enter the store, and for whatever reason, supposedly just walked away and never entered the store. Could she have been the driver of the car that I highlighted in blue?

Did police reach out to this woman or did she approach them after the shooting?

 

[Userid]

Did police reach out to this woman or did she approach them after the shooting?

Sounds like the police met with her. Here is the article: Investigators meet about Lane Bryant murders | ABC7 Chicago | abc7chicago.com

EDIT: I also can't help but wonder if this was the person who caught the attention of the killer and made him go to the front of the store. Perhaps the killer was about to force her into the back the second she walked through the door, but fatefully, she didn't end up going in.

 

[Userid]

For what it's worth, I do not believe the survivor had anything at all to do with the murders -- I've seen a lot of people speculating that theory. I disagree with that.

Here is a good video of the audio -- I've read a lot about this case in the last two days, and I've never seen any transcript of the phrase "cover that head up," until this video:

I read a report that stated that the victims heads were covered with undergarments that the killer grabbed from the front of the store -- this audio would seem to confirm that.

 

[flgrl017]

If a customer wanted something we didn’t have we used a merchandise locator and shipped to the customer. The shooter’s paperwork set off the manager’s hinky meter or looked authentic enough to genuinely confuse her.

I think it could have just set off her hinky meter since it was a Saturday. We got shipments on the weekdays when we weren’t expected to be busy. Idk, I think he was believable enough to get her to the point of calling.

 

[flgrl017]

I used your photo as a reference, I hope that's okay.

I was talking about this car encircled in blue. If memory serves (going by the time stamp) this car was here for less than a minute. There's also another SUV highlighted in yellow that was there the entire time, again, if memory serves.

I just read a report that there was a woman who actually went up to the door of Lane Bryant just as the murders were going on. She put her hand on the handle just about to enter the store, and for whatever reason, supposedly just walked away and never entered the store. Could she have been the driver of the car that I highlighted in blue?

I see the car. Thank you, I’ve been wondering what small sedan they were referring to. It shows up first at the 10:40 time stamp, it’s still there at 10:43, and it’s gone by 10:45. We don’t have a 10:44 time stamp.

 

[flgrl017]

I think the yellow highlighted suv was still there after they put up the crime scene tape. I’ve highlighted the one I think it is from the newscast. It probably belonged to one of the victims.

 

[Talullah]

I think it could have just set off her hinky meter since it was a Saturday. We got shipments on the weekdays when we weren’t expected to be busy. Idk, I think he was believable enough to get her to the point of calling.

I think it was a situation where she knew it was off but called the other store to buy time and hoped it’d make sense. She’d been there 2 years and would’ve known if it was something Lane Bryant would do. I wonder what she said to the other store. Retail chains are all about policies.

 

[Userid]

I see the car. Thank you, I’ve been wondering what small sedan they were referring to. It shows up first at the 10:40 time stamp, it’s still there at 10:43, and it’s gone by 10:45. We don’t have a 10:44 time stamp.
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Good call -- I initially thought that car was only there for a minute, but like you say, it was there for at least 3 minutes (the telecast's slides skipped from 10:40 to 10:45).

It's frustrating to wonder about questions that you know the police already have the answers to. I'm sure they already know all about this small (regular-sized) car, who it belonged to (the woman who didn't enter the store at the last second?), etc.

It's eerie how you can hear the music playing at the beginning of the 911 call (at least in some clips). When the killer yells "Yo," I feel like he's yelling at RM because he knows she just called the cops.