IL IL - Lane Bryant Murders, Tinley Park, 2 Feb 2008

[legomonster]

I had no idea this hasn't been solved.

 

[mothwings]

Have they ever released a sketch or anything showing the layout of the store and where the bodies were found? I'm curious as to the size of the break room they were held in, and how many people could have fit in it if he had continued what he was doing.

I'm also really curious as to what happened to make Rhoda call 911. I feel like she didn't do that for no reason, since the perp was about to leave. She must have overheard something that freaked her out and made it worth the risk.

I'm also curious about this. If police are saying at least one victim was raped, I'm wondering where he did this—in the break room with the other women? How is it at least one or more didn't escape during the rape? Maybe that's when Rhoda made the 911 call.

 

[jbirner]

It's never been clear the extent of the sexual assault. That could be why she called 911. Maybe she stopped the assault before it could get worse, only for him to catch her on the phone. Like I said before, I don't think she makes call unless she felt it was their last hope. I do believe it was a fairly small break room though.

 

[rob525]

Ok. I am new to this thread and haven't read all of the previous posts ( I am working on it). A couple thoughts after reading some posts and listening to the Detective Perspective pod cast that drew me to this thread.

There is a mention of a groping in the podcast but not a rape. I would assume the living witness provided some clarity on that. Were the victims blindfolded? I believe that it was mentioned that they were using garments from the store. That would lead me to believe that the living witness may be the victim of the sexual assault.

My first thought is that the perpetrator believed there to be more money in the store, possibly from the previous days sales. I have worked in places where the owner/manager would have employees place the sales receipts and money in a safe or office drop slot to be taken to the bank on the following day. Perhaps he thought the employees were holding out. Additionally, I had wondered if he executed one of the victims first in order to try and locate the additional money he believed to be in the store. After he shoots one, maybe he views it as having no choice to kill everyone. A terrible way to think about it is that he may have seen the penalty for one capital murder as being not much different from five in the instance that he was caught.

I am not certain I agree with Derek Levasseur with regard to this being a drug frenzy robbery. Seems like heroin would make someone desperate enough to do this robbery however, heroin addicts are most interested in getting there fix as quickly as possible and $200.00 is enough to accomplish their immediate need and then some. I just don't see someone in desperate need of a fix hanging out for 45 minutes.

I wonder what affect the physical trauma of the gun shot may have on the living victim. Is it possible that she is misidentifying the suspect and may be remembering someone she saw prior to the incident but not involved?

 

[jbirner]

Ok. I am new to this thread and haven't read all of the previous posts ( I am working on it). A couple thoughts after reading some posts and listening to the Detective Perspective pod cast that drew me to this thread.

There is a mention of a groping in the podcast but not a rape. I would assume the living witness provided some clarity on that. Were the victims blindfolded? I believe that it was mentioned that they were using garments from the store. That would lead me to believe that the living witness may be the victim of the sexual assault.

My first thought is that the perpetrator believed there to be more money in the store, possibly from the previous days sales. I have worked in places where the owner/manager would have employees place the sales receipts and money in a safe or office drop slot to be taken to the bank on the following day. Perhaps he thought the employees were holding out. Additionally, I had wondered if he executed one of the victims first in order to try and locate the additional money he believed to be in the store. After he shoots one, maybe he views it as having no choice to kill everyone. A terrible way to think about it is that he may have seen the penalty for one capital murder as being not much different from five in the instance that he was caught.

I am not certain I agree with Derek Levasseur with regard to this being a drug frenzy robbery. Seems like heroin would make someone desperate enough to do this robbery however, heroin addicts are most interested in getting there fix as quickly as possible and $200.00 is enough to accomplish their immediate need and then some. I just don't see someone in desperate need of a fix hanging out for 45 minutes.

I wonder what affect the physical trauma of the gun shot may have on the living victim. Is it possible that she is misidentifying the suspect and may be remembering someone she saw prior to the incident but not involved?

I don't believe drugs had anything to do with it either. First I can say he was not high when he walked in the store as he was conversing with the employees for about 8 minutes after he walked in. I would think they would have noticed if he was high. He seemed organized, but not very organized. There could be many reasons why Rhoda called 911. I do not believe that the survivor was the victim of the sexual assault, from what I have read. We will not know that for sure until it comes out, if it ever does.

As for if he killed one of them first before the others, I would say that is entirely possible. Like I said, RM called 911 for a reason. She did not believe they were getting out alive without police involvement. Calling 911 was a huge risk. Also, it would take a long time to kill/shoot 6 people, and he had very little time between the 911 call being placed until the police arrived, so he had to go very quickly.

 

[333_OnlyHalfEvil]

I had assumed he probably groped the victim who fought him, but that's based on nothing factual. It just seemed like something a woman hater might do.

 

[mothwings]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>
Were there really no cameras in Lane Bryant? Have police actually said there were no cameras in Lane Bryant? Or is that just assumed? Or did people that actually shop or work there say for certain there were no cameras? Maybe there was and police just aren't sharing it? It's hard to believe there weren't cameras in there.

It's so sad. I don't believe anything the police say on this case and I would have checked more than just Target for surveillance. From the neighborhood car wash to freeway gas stations two hours away, I'd be asking for surveillance videos in hopes of tracking the vehicle that was parked in front of the store to locate the perps that did this.

 

[jbirner]

Were there really no cameras in Lane Bryant? Have police actually said there were no cameras in Lane Bryant? Or is that just assumed? Or did people that actually shop or work there say for certain there were no cameras? Maybe there was and police just aren't sharing it? It's hard to believe there weren't cameras in there.

It's so sad. I don't believe anything the police say on this case and I would have checked more than just Target for surveillance. From the neighborhood car wash to freeway gas stations two hours away, I'd be asking for surveillance videos in hopes of tracking the vehicle that was parked in front of the store to locate the perps that did this.

The police have been tight lipped on this case for 17 years now. I can only think of a few reasons, they know who the person is but do not have enough evidence to try him or they are just sitting back waiting for someone to come forward with the little information that they have provided. I would like to think they are giving this case its due diligence, but I do not believe they are at the moment. I do not believe there were cameras in the store, but there must have been some in the plaza and on the roadways.

 

[rob525]

I had assumed he probably groped the victim who fought him, but that's based on nothing factual. It just seemed like something a woman hater might do.

My thought process was that if everyone was blindfolded and he groped one victim, not the survivor. How would she have known. I suppose she could have heard something but it just seemed logical to me that the surviving victim was the one that he had assaulted.

 

[333_OnlyHalfEvil]

My thought process was that if everyone was blindfolded and he groped one victim, not the survivor. How would she have known. I suppose she could have heard something but it just seemed logical to me that the surviving victim was the one that he had assaulted.

That too, but it was my understanding that some of them had panties over their heads but not all. And panties aren't real blindfolds; I feel like they could somewhat see through or around them, depending on the size and color and placement of the items.

In the end it doesn't matter, I just hope he only groped the one and there was no rape involved.

 

[jbirner]

That too, but it was my understanding that some of them had panties over their heads but not all. And panties aren't real blindfolds; I feel like they could somewhat see through or around them, depending on the size and color and placement of the items.

In the end it doesn't matter, I just hope he only groped the one and there was no rape involved.

Whatever he was doing IMO prompted RM to get her hands free and call 911. I feel she wouldn't have risked calling 911, knowing he would notice, unless she felt that was the only option in her mind.

 

[333_OnlyHalfEvil]

Whatever he was doing IMO prompted RM to get her hands free and call 911. I feel she wouldn't have risked calling 911, knowing he would notice, unless she felt that was the only option in her mind.

And the fact that she could have run and probably saved herself at that point, since the back door was right there, says to me that she was more worried about the other ladies than herself. The usual human response is to get yourself out of immediate danger, then get help for others. The fact that she risked the call and stayed worries me about what the perp(s) were planning to do.

 

[jbirner]

And the fact that she could have run and probably saved herself at that point, since the back door was right there, says to me that she was more worried about the other ladies than herself. The usual human response is to get yourself out of immediate danger, then get help for others. The fact that she risked the call and stayed worries me about what the perp(s) were planning to do.

I have long thought that the person who pulled up to the front of the store was an accomplice/getaway driver and he went into the store to tell the other guy they had to leave as there was a cop only a few hundred feet away. I think that is when the discussion about what to do with the hostages took place. RM heard this and called 911 thinking that was their last hope.

 

[333_OnlyHalfEvil]

Does anyone know what the rules are to the Freedom of Information Act? I would love to read any original police report from this crime, but since it's still unsolved, would they release anything I wonder?

 

[tilomagnet]

No chance in hell they will provide any relevant info via FOIA on an unsolved case this recent.

Im not sure if there is any statue of limitations when unsolved crime case files will become eligible for FOIAs....or maybe its agency specific?! For example for the Zodiac or OCCK case files have been released, yet for many other 1970ies unsolved case, those requests still bounce back due to "ongoing investigation" bla bla.

 

[jbirner]

Does anyone know what the rules are to the Freedom of Information Act? I would love to read any original police report from this crime, but since it's still unsolved, would they release anything I wonder?

I have many questions if they ever did. For example, did the survivor mention anything about a second person entering the store before the 911 call? Also, what was specifically transpiring during the time he had all victims secured and the 911 call? And many more.

 

[kemo]

No chance in hell they will provide any relevant info via FOIA on an unsolved case this recent.

Im not sure if there is any statute of limitations when unsolved crime case files will become eligible for FOIAs....or maybe its agency specific?! For example for the Zodiac or OCCK case files have been released, yet for many other 1970ies unsolved case, those requests still bounce back due to "ongoing investigation" bla bla.

There is no Salute of Limitations on murder so a murder case will theoretically stay open forever and will not be eligible for FOIA. Law Enforcement Agencies are free to release any information they want for any reason but they can not be compelled to if a murder case remains unsolved even if it is no longer being actively worked.

 

[mothwings]

It's not necessarily true that law enforcement doesn't grant public records requests on open cases. It really depends on the state and agency. There are certain "exemptions" defined by state law and those exemptions can be redacted while the rest of the information is released. With how much they're keeping this case under lock and key, the chances are they will deny any public records request but it wouldn't hurt to at least try.

Records

www.tinleypark.org

 

[jbirner]

At this point with this case being IMO no longer solvable, I see nothing to lose by releasing some more information. I do not believe this case will ever be litigated. I hope I am proven wrong, but I have no more hope for this case.

 

[333_OnlyHalfEvil]

I have officially placed the request, it is being reviewed and a reference # was given to me. So I guess now we wait and see.

Sorry for the delay, I was DX'd with cancer and have been preoccupied while making my treatment plan. Even if it doesn't run in your family, don't skip your yearly mammogram, ladies. We used a ton of endocrine disruptors back in the 90's and 00's without of realizing it. Remember all those Bath and Body works products and scented candles and plug ins at home? Yep. All of those. Not to mention the lining in all the canned goods we ate. There's so much we can't control, so catching it at stage 1 is very important.